Russian helicopters heading to Sevastopol, Ukraine

All this strated because the Ukraine accepted a 15 billion dollar handout from the comunists and not the jew bankers in the west.

Now, after the coup d'etat, they're negociating the bailout with the ##SNIPPED## of the IMF and Britain and America.

It's like the mafia...the Ukraine own the biggest business, a restraunt, on the block and the two families (family 1 -Russia and the family 2 - the western bankers) both want to control it..

Family one, Russia made a better deal and so the Ukraine went with them.

Family 2, the bankers of the west, under the name of the IMF (Rothschilds) didnt like the fact and so, sent 250 thousand people around to break the restraunts windows and destroy their business as a warning.

Now the Ukraine is accepting a bail out from the Western Families....They made them an offer they couldn't refuse.
"theres one thing i wanna say to you Freddo, NEVER TAKE SIDES AGAINST THE FAMILY AGAIN".

Now the question is...do we go to the matresses.

reply to post by SprocketUK

Haven't we the UK just started bringing are Challenger 2 and AS90 out off mothballs !

"nd line ATS aware.

foxhound2459
reply to post by SprocketUK

 

Haven't we the UK just started bringing are Challenger 2 and AS90 out off mothballs !

"nd line ATS aware.

For all the good it'll do us we may as well dig out an old chieftain or two.

Maybe all the stuff on the BBC trying to justify the first world war is really a psy op to get us in the right frame of mind for what's coming?
(Don't take that last too seriously).

reply to post by andy1972


Forget America and the Nazis etc. Let's even forget the NWO Illuminati for a minute and pretend that the uprising in Kiev started with genuine Ukrainians who simply want a change from their current "regime". Pretend it's really happening without the CIA etc for just a moment, k?

I'm curious to know since you being from Northern Europe and all... what role you think the surrounding European NATO nations should play in all this, considering their obligation to Ukraine since it became a sovereign western-backed nation when the former Soviet Union fell?

This needs to stop being solely about America and how horribly they handle things etc. We get it, the U.S. has a powerful military, but it's also broke. Our dear leaders in the good ole U.S.A. can do nothing but act tough without actually acting on anything militarily. All the U.S. can really offer right now is warnings of sanctions etc that really mean nothing to Putin.

I think the focus should be put on the European NATO nations due to the fact that Ukraine is split between the EU and Russian control. They both suck, sure, but this constant barrage of anti U.S. sentiment is uncalled for, especially in this case IMO. Either the European NATO nations should step up and do something, or Putin gets free reign to do whatever he wants in Ukraine and elsewhere IMO. If the EU wants to keep being passive then they deserve what is coming to them. Again, just my opinion.

double post...appologies.

reply to post by Wookiep

Personally, as an Englishman, i think we should sit back and watch it all play out.
As you put it."warnings and sanction" if that.
The probability of this uprising / coup d'etat/ revolution or whatever it is / was being a genuine spontanious act of love for the country by the people without agent provocatuers of another nation giving them a nudge or a helping hand is nearly zero.

Has the arab spring now come to eastern Europe ??

Russia needs europe like Europe needs Russia.

What we see here is mere sabre rattling and jingoism.

Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine...

The Ukraine isn't / cant be, part of NATO since it has signed the agreement to have Russian bases on its territory.

It's not NATO's problem.
Whats at stake here is who controls the Ukraine, controls the gas pipes that pass through the country.

Just like in Afghanstan, they wanted to build a pipeline for gas, the Taliban said no. The Taliban are dead. The pipeline runs through Afghanistan.

Turkmanistan Afghanistan Pakistan India..TAPI..the gasline for the worlds 4th biggest reserve of gas natural.

Isn't it funny how all this started only after the governemnt (corrupt or no) accepted Russias offer of a bailout, and not the wests.
If Eastern Ukraine legally and legitimately want's to break away, and it is he will of the people, so be it.

Isn't it funny how all this started after the Ukraines governemnt (corrupt or not, it doesnt matter) accepted Russias 15 billion bailout and not the weterns bankers offer.

Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine...

reply to post by andy1972


That's the key. We shall see. I don't claim to know what Putin is up to, but if he intends to push this into the whole of Ukraine, then I think it's a problem the EU NATO nations will be forced to deal with. (or should be, rather) Otherwise, it is what it is. Not a U.S. issue IMO, this is a problem for the EU.

Wookiep

Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine...

reply to post by andy1972

 

That's the key. We shall see. I don't claim to know what Putin is up to, but if he intends to push this into the whole of Ukraine, then I think it's a problem the EU NATO nations will be forced to deal with. (or should be, rather) Otherwise, it is what it is. Not a U.S. issue IMO, this is a problem for the EU.

edit on 1-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Follow the money...
It's all about the money..

The Ukraine accepted a 15 billion Russian loan and has extended her stay in the Crimea until 2045 / 47, saving 15 thousand jobs and cutting 30% off its national gas bill. Thus excluding itself from NATO for another 30 years.

Someone, somewhere, didn't like what was happening.

The Ukraine was meant to say no to the Crimea deal, and yes to NATO and another IMF handout.

andy1972

Wookiep

Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine...

reply to post by andy1972

 

That's the key. We shall see. I don't claim to know what Putin is up to, but if he intends to push this into the whole of Ukraine, then I think it's a problem the EU NATO nations will be forced to deal with. (or should be, rather) Otherwise, it is what it is. Not a U.S. issue IMO, this is a problem for the EU.

edit on 1-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Follow the money...
It's all about the money..

The Ukraine accepted a 15 billion Russian loan and has extended her stay in the Crimea until 2045 / 47, saving 15 thousand jobs and cutting 30% off its national gas bill. Thus excluding itself from NATO for another 30 years.

Someone, somewhere, didn't like what was happening.

The Ukraine was meant to say no to the Crimea deal, and yes to NATO and another IMF handout.

Well, if that's true, then I guess it's up to the EU NATO nations to decide to sit back and do nothing then. Either way, it's like I said, not a U.S. issue, there is no reason for the U.S. to even be involved.

The Ukrainians on the other hand may not appreciate their false sense of reality and continue to protest as a result if this is accurate. I know I would, especially after learning that there is a red pill..

reply to post by SprocketUK


Ahh Chieftain MBT, Suppose we could ask the Israelis or the Iranians for them back.








Slightly off topic OP apolz, Old and Bold kicked in.

For everyone with a war boner foaming at the mouth and beating the war drum. Here’s a idea?

Ukraine is in massive debt.

Russia wants only the Crimea.......

Majority in the Crimea including its autonomous (Crimea is to Ukraine what Scotland is to Britain) seem to want to be Russian

So instead of going in gun hoo and triggering world war 3 and getting us all killed for a peninsular that’s only 26,100 km2 why doesn’t Ukraine offer to sell the Crimea to Russia in exchange for clearing its debts......

Advantage no one gets killed, Russia keep there black sea port, the majority in Crimea get what they want and Ukraine new government gets its independence......

Im sure if you played it smart you could get Russia to bargain some other concessions too.

Putin will pay a high price for the Crimea. But why make him pay a high price in blood and the blood of innocents in a massive war when we can make JUST Russia pay a high economic or political price?

Though I think some on ATS are so twisted and war hungry the fact it won’t trigger a bloody war will be a disappointment for them.

andy1972
Follow the money...
It's all about the money..

The Ukraine accepted a 15 billion Russian loan and has extended her stay in the Crimea until 2045 / 47, saving 15 thousand jobs and cutting 30% off its national gas bill. Thus excluding itself from NATO for another 30 years.

Someone, somewhere, didn't like what was happening.

The Ukraine was meant to say no to the Crimea deal, and yes to NATO and another IMF handout.

I'd go out on a ledge here and say that this is not all about the money. It isn't not only about Crimea.
This is about the huge strategic, historic and symbolic significance that the Ukraine means to Russia and how that affects the public notions of this relationship.

The ethnic ukranians (77% of the population, compared to some 18% ethnic russians) are no longer interested in giving away they future with their loyalties to Moscow. Those days are over. The country is surely under the influence of severe economical hardships and corruption but the new generations do believe that there is an end to all that if they can break free from the rusted chains that has them tied up to Russian interests. A EU membership represents for them all their idealistic dreams in a nutshell while in Moscow that is looking more like a worst case scenario.
So I'd say that the foundation for all the horror we've seen, and are continuing to see here, is general unhappiness with the current economical/political situation and an honest tiredness of Russian interference in Ukranian, soverign, internal concerns.
Maybe not all fractions would like to see the Ukraine as an EU member but they all want to see the russian grip gone forever (which isn't going to happen as long as they are reliant on russian gas, just like the rest of Europe for that sake...).
Remember Yushchenko? That was the russians interfering. Tymochenko, maybe not, but I think the was set up by the russians as well. I don't know about you guys but such acts would provocate the crap out of me. I can't believe the Ukranian people waited this long to riot.

To Russian, the Ukraine is not even a proper country, and this has been the general perception since the time of the Czars (it is even reflected in the Russian language where you're not "in Ukraine", you're "on Ukraine" which means something like "the (back)yard" in russian).
Ukraine continues to be a vital buffer zone between Russia and Europe (USA). If the threat was over since the breakdown of the Soviet Union, why do both sides keep vast numbers of military asssets along the old east-west borders? You don't just break your foe, you also make sure they never rise again. Russia is far from their Soviet day capabilities but they sure still can bite! We saw it in Georgia back in 2008 and it seems they are about to do the same this time. The rethoric is just the same: "we can't idly stand by as ethnic russians are at risk". You can't have a more clear message than that.

The thing with the Berkut and their "fast track" asylum in Russia is the most worrisome. Apparently these guys have no problems whatsoever to open fire on their unarmed countrymen and -women. They also took quite a beating in the streets at times... Now they feel betrayed for that while Russia opens their arms and offers refuge... Sneaky move indeed!

What I can't swallow here, despite all the circumstances, is how Russia has the sheer guts to handle the Ukrainian situation like this! Typical, old school soviet style proxy oppression, and it's NOT okay!
Hopefully this is the last mistake Putin makes. As soon as we can rid ourselves from the Russian gas and oil monopoly, they are going to get spanked on their bare cheeks for this!

andy1972
All this strated because the Ukraine accepted a 15 billion dollar handout from the comunists and not the jew bankers in the west.

Now, after the coup d'etat, they're negociating the bailout with the jew bankers of the IMF and Britain and America.

It's like the mafia...the Ukraine own the biggest business, a restraunt, on the block and the two families (family 1 -Russia and the family 2 - the western bankers) both want to control it..

Family one, Russia made a better deal and so the Ukraine went with them.

Family 2, the bankers of the west, under the name of the IMF (Rothschilds) didnt like the fact and so, sent 250 thousand people around to break the restraunts windows and destroy their business as a warning.

Now the Ukraine is accepting a bail out from the Western Families....They made them an offer they couldn't refuse.
"theres one thing i wanna say to you Freddo, NEVER TAKE SIDES AGAINST THE FAMILY AGAIN".

Now the question is...do we go to the matresses.

edit on AM6Sat20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

"Jew bankers"??? Channelling Nick Griffin are we?

I woke this morning in an angry mood!

Screw Russia
Screw Putin

Dirty Gangsters

No One is fooled with your crap

Mass protest in favour of Russia started all of a sudden today all over the Eastern Ukrainian regions. All raising Russian flags over their respective administrative buildings and calling for Russia to help them.

Its over for Ukraine in my humble opinion. The country is destabilized.

Link

And the above mentioned events gives Russia a very good pretext to enter the Eastern regions of Ukraine.

reply to post by foxhound2459


Funny how well them old girls do in the desert since their primary purpose was to make the Fulda gap a very hostile environment.

A regiment of them and a few slr's and it'd be like the 80's again.

reply to post by SprocketUK


It looks like some nice new fighter jets are being housed at Belbek airport. They also seem to be ready for action, with their loadouts all ready to go, and covered up...haphazardly.



SU-30's?

The west has mostly likely said, were just ok with you taking the old Crimea back but the rest of Ukraine is off limits.

Geography lines of control will always move in times of conflict and chaos, human history is full of that.

If you consider that less than 1/4 of the people living on the Crimea are Ukrainian and that this an autnomous region, I think the Ukrainian government should just hand it over to the Russians.
After that we will see how stabilized the Ukraine will become.
Most likely as stable as Egypt! The majority of the people don't want this changes. It is the west, that brainwashes us and wants to make us feel pro-demonstrants.