NWO: Lets be serious here....

Lets be serious here folks. Lets stop beating around the bush shall we? Its time we all voiced our opinions and thoughts on this subject. I mean, we are constantly reading material on 'secret societies' (ie: the Bilderberg Group, the Illuminati, the Federal Reserve, The IMF, The UN, the Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations, etc.) and the agenda known as the New World Order. Lets get to the 'beef' of this....come out and say what you think and believe. There is no fear or consequences to doing so is there? Speak your mind. Voice your opinion. Lets stop with the fun and hidden inuendo's and lets get to the heart of this....

With all the abundant information to be found within the "Halls of ATS" and on the internet, in libraries, on videos, etc., how many here feel that the agenda New World Order is made up of 'scare mongering' and unfounded and stupid theories? That there are no "plans" or "agendas" to form such a thing? That it is all 'poppy-cock' and fairy tales; that it is the doings of conspiracy theorists taking "bits" of information and making it appear as one wishes the "picture" to be?

How many feel that the New World Order could be a good thing? That the world would be a better place? I mean, some might say, "What is wrong with a world where like minded countries want law and order to govern the Earth through a UN but still provide freedom and democracy? It's a possible and should happen while every country still maintains its national idenitity."

And how many here know "something" is going on or is wrong but don't buy into the agenda of New World Order? That it is the workings of something far greater than an 'elitist group...the few?"

Voice your opinions folks! Perhaps with this discussion, we can reveal whether all this is plain BS or the real deal and has serious implications for us all, or its just an illusion, created in our minds, and life goes on as usual...
Consider it a challenge, a stance, a chance to voice your fellings, of letting your opinion and belief be known and a way to find what we have all been trying to find since coming to ATS.....the Truth.

Don't be scared...come on....fear is the only thing that keeps this world from becoming what it was meant to be; fear keeps us from giving love to one another; fear keeps us saying what we really want to say and do....fear....thats all.

I hope we can discuss this rationally. Present our opinions and beliefs without ridicule. Perhaps even give our "proofs" for or against, but all-in-all, get to the bottom of this, maybe even enlighten and inform ourselves as to what is or isn't going on around us in this world today.....Peace.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Seekerof]

Frankly, I feel that it's scaremongering tactics. I've never seen a single prediction come true (unless it was reverse-engineered after the fact) -AND- I believe that there are a lot of hoaxers out there who get their jollies making up this stuff.

I believe that this nonsense distracts people from REAL conspiracies.

And I don't think a global government will be a bad thing -- IF we can learn to do it. So far, our efforts have been pretty weak and point out a lot of problems in the system.

One world order is dangerous. Uniting the entire planet under one creed, one law, one language, one religion, one leader is like throwing your eggs into one basket. It destroys diversity and difference, upsets balance, dehumanizes humanity, and destroys evolution. it is dangerous beyond dangers

Nothing good could come of such a thing. but its starting to happen, and has avocates from the highest levels of govornment to philanthropic college grads and students, to even the lowest levels of society because its marketed as soemthing good for eberyone.

I can agree somewhat with that Byrd. Thank you for responding.

If we look away from the attitude or conspiracy known as the New World Order or from a "Big Brother Central Government," and look to perhaps a one world government being beneficial, how or what would be the requirements for such?

How about if we start with the premise that two things are guaranteed:
1) The meeting of basic needs.
2) The opportunity to go higher.

With all our world's resources, with all its abundances, we have yet managed those above two simple things. We continually 'trap' millions on the lowest end of the socioeconomic scale and have then devised a world view that systematically keeps them there. This world, with all its resources and abundances continues to allow hundreds of thousands to die for lack of simple basics.

A "Unified One World Federation or Government" would produce what? WHat would be the goals and/or results?
1) An end to wars between nations and the settling of disputes by killing.
2) An end to abject poverty, death by starvation, and mass exploitation of people and resources by those of power.
3) An end to the systematic environmental destruction of the Earth.
4) An escape from the endless struggle for bigger, better, more.
5) An opportunity -- truly equal -- for all people to rise to the highest expression of self.
6) An end to all limitations and discriminations holding people back -- whether in housing, in the work place, or in the political system, or in personal sexual relationships, etc.

That:
All people would be offered a proper education.
All people would be offered open opportunity to use that education in the workplace -- to follow careers which bring the joy and happiness.
All people would be guarenteed access to health care whenever and however needed.
All people would be gaurenteed they won't starve to death or have to live without sufficient clothing or adequate shelter.
All people would be granted the basic dignities of life so that survival would never again be the issue, so that simple comforts and basic dignities were provided all human beings.

I may have left out some but a one government system could work but this depends alot on "who" or "whom" is running things....doesn't it?

regards
seekerof


[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 15-8-2003 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
One world order is dangerous. Uniting the entire planet under one creed, one law, one language, one religion, one leader is like throwing your eggs into one basket. It destroys diversity and difference, upsets balance, dehumanizes humanity, and destroys evolution. it is dangerous beyond dangers

Nothing good could come of such a thing. but its starting to happen, and has avocates from the highest levels of govornment to philanthropic college grads and students, to even the lowest levels of society because its marketed as soemthing good for eberyone.

I agree not only will it'll be dangerous for it to exist but how would it obtain peace if there is no solution in ending crime, only in killing the perportrators, that is the main plan for the NWO(I think) it'll make no difference, the world will be even more violent when they come into power

Excellent idea for a thread... I just hope that people take it seriously.

Here's my opinion on the NWO issue. I believe that the majority of the governments throughout history have been ruled by members of bloodlines that are traced back to Ramses II of Egypt. I believe that these elite, wealthy families are still in control of the Earth. This control is both implicit and explicit. They primarily control the population through behavioral, psychosocial, economic and chemical manipulation of the fear response. We are in a prison that does not have easily observable bars.

They have also intentionally suppressed and hoarded many aspects of science, in order to keep the best technology of the world for themselves. In order to gain a small piece of this knowledge (which should be available to all at NO cost), one is required to enter the education system and become indebted to those above us.

Is everyone in government/system involved? To some extent, yes, but most are probably not aware. Much like the banking system (don't get me started), those at the lower levels have no clue why they are doing what they are doing- they follow orders of those above them.

I believe that the checks and balances system in the United States as well as the world is corrupt. I believe that it is the responsibility of every citizen of the world to hold our leaders responsible for their behavior. Unfortunately, the conditioning process prevents this from happening because many believe "what's the point, I can't do anything about it anyways".

I believe that unless "the many" wake up and "get off the grid", we are only opening ourselves up to more of our rights being taken away. As long as the governments of the world benefit financially from the common citizen, things will remain the same and will eventually get more restrictive.

If employed properly, a one world government could be a very good thing, particularly if the inception of a one world government coincides with the opening of trade routes with extraterrestrial civilizations. Based on lessons from history as well as the personal track record of virtually every high-ranking government official, I do not believe that the human race has the maturity to manage the integration of the world's governments. We would be the laughing stock of the galaxy.




[Edited on 14-8-2003 by MKULTRA]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
One world order is dangerous. Uniting the entire planet under one creed, one law, one language, one religion, one leader is like throwing your eggs into one basket. It destroys diversity and difference, upsets balance, dehumanizes humanity, and destroys evolution. it is dangerous beyond dangers

Nothing good could come of such a thing. but its starting to happen, and has avocates from the highest levels of govornment to philanthropic college grads and students, to even the lowest levels of society because its marketed as soemthing good for eberyone.

I also concur Skadi....
There is too much "proof" to be found that justify's what you are saying. One can spends months going through such information and truly see that there is indeed "the elitist few" governing the "ignorant many." They have one agenda and its the New World Order....one government one everything. Its conception dates to antiquity and its 'agenda' has been an ongoing process, effecting every level of governments and religious institutions. It is real and its intents are evil by nature, character and design.....there is no denying this and preventing it is a must if this can be done at all....

regards
seekerof

The danger of the NWO is the utopian promises. i hear alot of giving everyone eductation, equality, ect. When we expect govornments to give us theese things, its over, your a slave. Slaves are given things, slaves are cared for. Even slaves in Rome were treated well, yet they were still slaves.

people seem to forget nothing comes for free if its worth having. Why cant people give THEMSELVES education, give themselves all these things they desire. Thats natural law. nature gives nothing to her creatures and children, they must use those things nature imbued with them to get it themselves.

When a govornment will give the world peace, rposperity, end to hatred, ect, this govornment is going against natural law. natural law states all creatures must find a way to survive and excell. I will never trust anyone who promises to give me anything. if i want something, I shall get it for myself using what i have.

Ciclizations and society is part of nature, though we dont reealize this. Human nations are higher octaves of wolf packs, elephant herds, primate troupes, ect. They still fall under natural law. Thus, just as nature does not try to unite all wolves under one pack, one alpha male, niether should we unite the human packs under one law.

nature is competition and stife. Our struggles improve us, as Nietzche said, that what doesnt kill us only makes us stronger.

The illuminati, the Zionists, the NWO, they all tamper with natural law. Staging and starting wars is unatural. War sometimes is ok, but in the past few centuries, has been sevrely maniplulated and instigated, contrary to natural law and entropy. War in its natural state is not cionstant, it is the buildup of tensions between to human packs or herds over terrortiry. these things happen, as humans in the natural world are simply higher thinking animals with more control of thier instincts. Wars in ancient times were smaller scale, ended more finally, and generally, leaders back then avoided them until it was no longer avoidable. Now war is used to further whims and intents of a most sick and unatural system.

With all this war, people beg for peace becasue the wars arent ending and healing wounds, they linger on and fester and break out again like diseases. Thus, people are being duped by notions of world peace, ending resistance and all that. Another tactic of the NWO. make the people so sick of war and put thier trust and lives and hopes with a new syetem. Evil indeed.

because when you remove all war and hate, you also tamper with built in survival instincts of the human, Agression is normal and healthy in people when it is for good reasosn and managed or focused properly. Removing hatred, fear, all that, removes and tampers with natures work. In order to remove war and hatred, this requires genetically re engineering the human and playing with fire.

Thus, any utopian promises of the NWO are to be feared, no matter who is promising them. All ,methods of castrating the human creature into kindless happy doped up robots incapable of disagreement.

Remeber the movie Demolition Man? that future world? thats to me is what the NWO is shooting for.

I think a NWO of sorts could provide very beneficial results. As stated extensively by Seekerof, and Byrd.

However, the government needs to be a much different animal than what exists today. In our current situation, I don't believe an equitable global government can be achieved. Corruption runs too deep on too many fronts.

Some comments on other posts:

Skadi,
A global government does not require the global population to live under one religion, one language, etc...I do understand your point. The lack of diversity is bad. however, a governmetn system that is just, and representative would not be throwing your eggs all in one basket per se. However, the key is representative.

MK,
I agree mostly with your historical review of power, corruption, and education at a price. this is why I stated that in our current conditiona global government is not an oprtion. I think the real problem with the idea of NWO is the possibility that it will be forced on us. Given the proper government structure, with safeguards in place, it can work justily, it can work efficiently, and it can work for the greater good of all the earth's citizens. Hwoever, not now, and not soon. I also think the "getting off the grid" is a fear mongering tactic used by those trying to cause hysteria in the masses by suggesting that if we don't the governmetn will in some way take complete control of us. Pay your bills, don't commit any crimes...what can they do, and why would they do it?

Hellfire,

Hahahaha, as usual, drivel and nothing significant to add. It is quite possible that by ending territorial disputes and leaders allowing acceptance of all creeds and religions, sharing all wealth and resources, that there would be no need for violence or war. Instead of thinking about it and seeing the potential you resort to misguided violence "killing perpetrators" and infantile gestures. Why are you so angry? No need to reply, you can U2U me. Let's keep this thread on topic. Before you run off and spout nasty gestures at me claiming me to be a huge supporter of NWO, read the post carefully. I have stated clearly that in our current condition it is not possible.

Seekerof,
I enjoyed the list you posted of outcomes/goals/product of a global government. I hope it serves as an eye opener to those who are completely averse to the possibility, given the right leadership.

That's it.

Luke

Originally posted by hellfireburns

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
One world order is dangerous. Uniting the entire planet under one creed, one law, one language, one religion, one leader is like throwing your eggs into one basket. It destroys diversity and difference, upsets balance, dehumanizes humanity, and destroys evolution. it is dangerous beyond dangers

Nothing good could come of such a thing. but its starting to happen, and has avocates from the highest levels of govornment to philanthropic college grads and students, to even the lowest levels of society because its marketed as soemthing good for eberyone.

I agree not only will it'll be dangerous for it to exist but how would it obtain peace if there is no solution in ending crime, only in killing the perportrators, that is the main plan for the NWO(I think) it'll make no difference, the world will be even more violent when they come into power

Its all about mind control hellfireburns and government mind control overlaps with many things -- it overlaps with a secret government or 'body' called the Illuminati. They hide behind the veils of National Security. They covertly use our patriotism against us and make us think that it's for our own interests -- for the security of our nation -- that we have to subject ourselves to all the secrecy that they impose upon us.

The Illuminati are the "movers and the shakers" of this world. They are an elite group of bloodlines. They are what you would call: "generational satanists." That means that they have practised their secret witchcraft for many a centuries. They have passed their religion down from one generation to the next. They lead double lives. They have one life that the world see's and then they have the hidden life that the world doesn't see. There have been very few people that have been able to break through the secrecy. They have taken "secrecy" to a fine art.

The Illuminati are satanists and that there isn't anything that they will not do. They are "gods" unto themselves. They think they are "gods" and that they are only serving Lucifer. They have taken oaths to Lucifer to serve him as their Prince, as the father of light. They have taken blood oaths in order to see this, to see it done, to see the fulfillment of the end-time, to see the anti-christ take his throne. They have done this for centuries.

If the public doesn't understand mind control, they're not going to understand whats happening in their backyard or in their schools or in their churches or in polotics. They need to understand how they have been totally controlled from the cradle --- that most everything they have been told is a lie.

Lucifer does their bidding for them. Lucifer tells them exactly what to do and when to do it; and the Brotherhood will do it. It has to do with money, honor, power and glory -- it has to do with demonic entities -- with generational spirits.....and the information goes on.

regards
seekerof

As to the agenda of New World Order and those "who" are behind the scenes instrumenting this....does anyone even wonder at how many and who these "groups" are that have connections to this "hidden agenda" and the Illuminati?

Would diffently make one wonder....and denying or denial is a great tool used by all of us.

regards
seekerof

Its amazing how many have viewed this topic and thread but have yet to make a comment.

Heres some food for thought:

"To achieve world governement, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism and religious dogma's.....We have swallowed all manner of poisonous certainties fed us by our parents, our Sunday and day school teachers, our politicians, our priests, our newspapers and others with vested interests in controlling us. The reinterpretation and eventual eradication of the concepts of right and wrong which has been the basis of child training, the substitution of intelligent and rational thinking for faith in the certainties of old people, these are the belated objectives....for charting the changes of human behavior." --- Director of the World Health Organization, Brock Chisolm.

"The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest level of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the United States from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship." --- Former Congressman John Rarick 1971.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by hellfireburns

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
One world order is dangerous. Uniting the entire planet under one creed, one law, one language, one religion, one leader is like throwing your eggs into one basket. It destroys diversity and difference, upsets balance, dehumanizes humanity, and destroys evolution. it is dangerous beyond dangers

Nothing good could come of such a thing. but its starting to happen, and has avocates from the highest levels of govornment to philanthropic college grads and students, to even the lowest levels of society because its marketed as soemthing good for eberyone.

I agree not only will it'll be dangerous for it to exist but how would it obtain peace if there is no solution in ending crime, only in killing the perportrators, that is the main plan for the NWO(I think) it'll make no difference, the world will be even more violent when they come into power

Its all about mind control hellfireburns and government mind control overlaps with many things -- it overlaps with a secret government or 'body' called the Illuminati. They hide behind the veils of National Security. They covertly use our patriotism against us and make us think that it's for our own interests -- for the security of our nation -- that we have to subject ourselves to all the secrecy that they impose upon us.

The Illuminati are the "movers and the shakers" of this world. They are an elite group of bloodlines. They are what you would call: "generational satanists." That means that they have practised their secret witchcraft for many a centuries. They have passed their religion down from one generation to the next. They lead double lives. They have one life that the world see's and then they have the hidden life that the world doesn't see. There have been very few people that have been able to break through the secrecy. They have taken "secrecy" to a fine art.

The Illuminati are satanists and that there isn't anything that they will not do. They are "gods" unto themselves. They think they are "gods" and that they are only serving Lucifer. They have taken oaths to Lucifer to serve him as their Prince, as the father of light. They have taken blood oaths in order to see this, to see it done, to see the fulfillment of the end-time, to see the anti-christ take his throne. They have done this for centuries.

If the public doesn't understand mind control, they're not going to understand whats happening in their backyard or in their schools or in their churches or in polotics. They need to understand how they have been totally controlled from the cradle --- that most everything they have been told is a lie.

Lucifer does their bidding for them. Lucifer tells them exactly what to do and when to do it; and the Brotherhood will do it. It has to do with money, honor, power and glory -- it has to do with demonic entities -- with generational spirits.....and the information goes on.

regards
seekerof

Although I really enjoyed your insights of the shadow government called Illuminati, though I always thought it was the Omega Angency that was hiding behind the NSA...just a little confuse.
what kind of religion do they practice if religion isn't even tolerated in our government? This Lucifer what is he in relation w/ Satan(are they same or differentlike how Jesus's relationship w/ God)?
-this is implied for Seekerof, I'll appriciate it if you answered this question only.

Whether it be called the "Omega Agency" or The Councilon Foreign Relations or anything other label one wishes to put on the "elitist few," the agenda remains the same: New World Order. Would you agree with that premise?

As to Lucifer:

Lucifer=Satan (evil)
Lucifer was his angelic name meaning "Son of the Morning Star or Light."

The NWO agenda is pure and simply rooted in evil....its nature, its character, those in volved, its design, its goal.
One could justify this in a variety of ways hellfireburns, literally with a multitude of sources. One could read up on Freemasonry; one could read up on the Bohemian Grove; one could read up on the Bilderberg Group and see this.
Let me leave this one article with you. It may not suffice but it will shed a little light on what I am implying. There are multitudes of sources.

Here is an example of the demonic instructions received by Albert Pike, a 33rd degree FreeMason, in the 19th century. He is a key player in the creation of the New World Order and a self proclaimed servant of Lucifer. Once you realize the evil that has been carried out in the attempt to create the New World Order you will understand how "evil" that "utopia" really will be. The deception will be so great, that even the elect will be decieved......
cuttingedge.org...


regards
seekerof






[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Seekerof]

NWO, lets get serious, hmmmm

Half of me is still sceptical
I guess we'll just have to wait for the next attack.

This topic of a new world order is fascinating. I have mixed views about it. First I do not like what i have read that the Omega Agency is trying to do, ie take away everyone's guns, scare people into giving up freedoms for saftey, and honestly 'rule' over everyone.
However, I do think that the world needs to be controlled by a powerful few. THey need to be magnanimous and interested in personal freedoms, (but sadly hey usually are not).
My main point is that the vast majority of people ar too stupid to govern themselves. If we really were govenered by popular opinion and majority rule, it woudl be a disaster. Not only are people stupid, but most have very poor taste as well.
Another point to answer seekerof. THe main argument i am hearing for the NWO is improved quality of life for people. Improved education, and improved opportunities. The problem with this is that someone still has to work at Taco Bell. Someone still has to pick up tht garbage. Someone still has to do all the crappy things in this world. If everyone truly had a chance at a better education and the opportunity to use that education to pursue what they love and are passionate about, who would do the nasty things that must be done?
In conclusion, I do not agree with the agenda that seems to be that of the NWO. But i do think that smarter, more powerful people should call the shots, and i think they should do it from behind the scenes, and not let most people knwo what is really going on. Most people are just too dumb to handle it.
My biggest conflict with this is that i beleive very strongly in self determination, personal freedoms, and basically "do as thou wilt shall be the only law". So my thought that there should be powerful people controling things to an extent has a hard time reconciling itself with the thought that people should be free in every way, to do whatever they want as long as it brings no harm to others. Quite the conundrum. But i do beleive that if the world were not run by some very powerful behind-the-scenes people...we would be far worse off than we are now... I just don't want them to take away anymore of my personal freedoms (and I woudl kind of liek it if they gave some of them back).

To instil any sort of global govornment, as seekerof has pointed out, you must strip the individuality, diversit, and natural instincts of mankind from him. You cannot have even a represnative global govornment without castrating humanity. Some religions require as part of thier dogma intolerance to others, because the ultimate goal of those religions is to convert the world. Redistributing wealth and forced equality are also dangerous and unnatural. If a person honestly work thier whole life to create wealth of thier own, that wealth by natures right, is his to keep so long as he defends it. Those too stupid or lazy to create or maintain something of thier own deserve nothing. those who do minimal work deserve minal rewards. everyone should NOT be educated. there are people who are pretty much braindead and suited to sweeping streets, there are people who are suited to being wage slaves, and others who are suited towards higher artistic and scientific aspiration. equality of man is a myth. in Nature there exists no equality, there is always a pecking order to things. Thus as it should be with humanity.

The problem with our current pecking order is stagnation. The leaders have sat there at the top for generations, not allowing for natural upward mobility. In nature, the alpha male of the pack or herd does not retain power indefinitely, eventually, he is replaced by younger, fresher, fitter blood. Thus, it used to be, the strongest and fittest bacme leader, and when thier time was up, someone better took thier place. YThe current order keeps the weak, sick, parasitic and stagnat blood at the top, freezsing the natural progression and upward mobility that is evolution and natural selection. Thus, the current order and where it is heading is an affront to nature and a danger to humanity.

A balanced world, where peace and war, love and hate, rich and poor, good and evil exist in opposition to one another, and the cylce is constantly refreshed, thus old loves and old grudges are born and killed.

The only appropriate place for a world government is proper management of the global commons. And that is precisely where Alex Jones and I divert. I�ve seen two of his movies and the screenplay was basically the same. He scaremongers for the first 95% of the movie and then he lays waste into the UN Treaty on Biological Diversity. Having read that treaty dozens of times, I can say without a doubt that his closing arguments are wildly sensationalized. You have to give him credit for trying hard; he just looks in the wrong places sometimes.

What has shocked me is that everyone so far has assumed that the N.W.O. hasn�t already been established. Let me be the first to tell you that N.W.O. is here and has been here for some time. Structural Adjustment Loans from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have already propagated a single system of government, which for all intents and purposes is corporate control of a region�s resources and culture. Free trade and globalization are the real vehicles of the N.W.O.

The question really is what is left on the N.W.O. agenda? If total and outright enslavement is really the end game, I think both history and physics prove it will eventually fail. No hegemonic power has ever been sustained. And I think the Second Law of Thermodynamics comes into play. As an open system becomes more and more complex, it requires more entropy (or work) to be sustained. Governments are no different.

One fact remains quite alarming. There are 6.2 billion people on the planet. Even the most liberal estimates put the carrying capacity near 4 billion. If you believe Thomas Malthus is correct, then war, famine and poverty are to be expected. The N.W.O. knows this and is anticipating the time when resources start to become severely depleted. The chances of establishing a Star Trek-like utopia will probably only evolve after a significant paradigm shift that would come after humanity�s self-destruction, which I think we are witnessing now. Pass the tinfoil.


[Edited on 18-8-2003 by kukla]

Well, I for one think that a "out int he open" one world order COULD be a good idea if done properly. But it would never work. Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I mean, seriously, think of it. It would turn into a massive dictatorship. Even with a full blown hierarchy of power, it would simply lead to infighting, cvil wars, and the like. A person is smart. People can be dumb, stupid and panic over little nonsense quite easily.

Not to mention, I have to agree with Kukla. It is here, and look at how the world is now. It's a fragging mess.

(Sorry about not making a longer post, but smaller posts are my thing. lol.)

I notice to account that we all have mixed views about the NWO, I agree with Freeman, we do have to wait til the next attack, full scale as to match 9/11 or even more horrific, but that is not the point, I'm just wondering if there's a movie or a series about the NWO?