Deciphering the Pagan Stones

originally posted by: Gordi The Drummer
a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Here's a later (medieval) version of the axe I'm seeing...

So it is that axe, well I think so anyway. They must have had small ones too.
I'm not convinced by the notched rectangle/shield idea but...I didn't know they had the same shields as the Persians. That is interesting.

originally posted by: urbanghost
a reply to: beansidhe

Notice he's shooting a boar - whether it's a nod to Twrth Trwyth

Can't believe I didn't remember this right away. In the Mabinogion it says that the Twrch Trwyth carried between its ears a comb, a razor and a pair of shears. Not sure if that has anything to do with the combs?

I think, personally, that it probably does. It's the right era. I'm going to do some digging to see if there's any consensus as to what they represented on Twrch Trwyth.
By the way, I'm calling this boar 'Twirch' when I write his name (stop laughing) -I'm almost certain that's not how it's pronounced properly. How does it sound?

a reply to: beansidhe

By the way, I'm calling this boar 'Twirch' when I write his name (stop laughing)

I'm not laughing honest
More like Tu rrrrrrrrrrr ch

a reply to: beansidhe

I think, personally, that it probably does. It's the right era. I'm going to do some digging to see if there's any consensus as to what they represented on Twrch Trwyth

This is what I can remember about it. A giant called Ysbaddaden Pencawr sent Olwen Culhwch who wanted to marry his daughter on a quest to hunt the Twrch to get the comb and scissors that were between its ears, so that he could cut his hair. He also wanted a shave and wanted the tusk of Yskithyrwyn Benbaedd to do this. These are the only tools strong enough for the giant. He asks him to do other stuff as well, but they are all so that he can hunt the twrch, like asking certain people to help him.
Twrch is the son of Taredd Wledig, who was cursed and turned into a boar. Olwen finds out that there is also a razor on the Twrch so he can get all three things from it. Olwen, Arthur and his men chase it all over Britain. When they get to the Severn, Mabon manages to get the razor off the twrch and Kyledyr Wyllt gets the scissors. But the twrch manages to get away before they get the comb. They finally chase it to Cornwall where they get the comb and drove the Twrch into the sea, never to be seen again.
its a bit condensed and I've left bits out but that is the basic story in the mabinogion.

a reply to: urbanghost

I was talking to my Irish friend earlier at work, and funnily enough combs came up. She told me it's bad luck to pick up a comb, in case a fairy dropped it to lure you away. The notion of being lured away to the otherworld is definitely prevalent in Scottish folklore too, and again another memory of a comb being something to do with magic/otherworldliness.

Twrch is a bit otherworldly too, I guess, having being turned from a man into the most beastly of beasts.

a reply to: beansidhe In Wales the Tylwyth Teg are friendly with goats, every Friday they comb the goats beards ready for Sunday. Mermaids in welsh legends are always found combing their hair, with a comb in one hand and a mirror in the other.
Others are, Never throw the combings of your hair into the roadway. If you do you will get into the power of witchcraft.
If women neglected to brush and comb their hair on Friday, vermin would breed in it.

a reply to: urbanghost

There's a sort of 'cleanliness is next to Godliness' message in there too, I think. Something about the ministers carrying on the tradition of hair combing, a juxtaposition of items of hygiene being in the hair of a boar, otherworld creatures combing their hair.
Log noted earlier the mirror representing the divine feminine and lunar associations and it seems like the comb has similar qualities, of preparing and cleaning oneself before entering the otherworld (or being tricked into it).

Just going to stick this here before I go. It's the back-to-back crescent again. Not identical, but close, from a coin of the Iceni:

a reply to: beansidhe
There was a silver plaque found in Norries Law, fife that has the z disc design on it.

a reply to: beansidhe
Drop the 'i' and pronounce the 'ch' as you would in Loch....and there you have it!

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Thank you! Twirch seems so...unbeastly, it was ruining it for me. Just a guess, but I'm going to stop thinking of him as Yolo Morganwig now too.
Lol!

a reply to: urbanghost

Ramcheck discussed those a while ago, and the very interesting thing about them is that the Z rod looks very much like the tree of life there, shown both on the picts' stones and on babylonian ones.

In fact, the Iceni coin I posted above - there was an article somewhere I read not long ago, which I'll need to go and find, and in it the writer had traced the development of the Iceni crescents symbol on their coins from earlier symbols of wheat. I wonder if there's a crescent/wheat/world tree link somewhere in that?

a reply to: beansidhe


How does it sound? Unless you hear it, it cant be had!

Funny but true story for you Welshmen and ladies. I went to school with some boys here in Ohio who's grandmother was Welsh and taught the boys English in a manner. One of the boys spoke a clear Midwestern american accent save for certain sounds he pronounced in proper Cymraeg. The "ch" sound was one of them. You can just imagine how this sounded. I asked him about it one day and he told me why he made those sounds. He even showed me how the sounds were made.

His brothers name was Eugene but his grandmother called him Yea-gin so some of us just called him Yea-gin. His last name was Davis and I can remember when we were younger in grade school he would try to correct teachers by saying it was Daaaavis. In fact he didn't even like to talk because his English had been taught to him in such a way that he didn't feel comfortable speaking it as he learned it, but would talk slowly as to watch his pronunciation.

So there is a human interest story for the day. Ydw. Iaith y nefoedd!

a reply to: Logarock

A lot of people have trouble pronouncing the CH in welsh, others are LL, DD. It's all about tongue placement

In South Wales there is a big problem getting the kids to speak in welsh. They feel very self conscious and get called the welshies by the non welsh speaking kids. I have to fight with mine to speak welsh, even when I speak to them in the house they normally answer in English, even though they are fluent in welsh. They have no choice in school though as they are taught all their lessons in welsh.

a reply to: urbanghost


There is a small college not far from here that teaches Welsh and has recruited Welsh football players to represent the school. I am told they win their league every year. There are a good number of Welsh descendants that live in that area going back to 1830 and before.

There is a story that floats around about a Welshman captured by the local Indians back in the day. He was praying in Welsh and an "Indian" overheard him and conversed with him in Welsh.

I found a drawing of a Welsh dragon that was made of an image carved on a large stone face in Indiana. The carving itself was rather large. it was clearly a Welsh dragon although the article written about it never made the connection. The carving was destroyed as the rock face was destroyed to make way for a highway. Stories of Welsh over here before Columbus abound.

There are petroglyphs in this state that are interesting. There is one with what is clearly a man holding a "carnyx". Looks like something off the gundestrup cauldron. I don't know if the British tribes used the carnyx but its a carnyx to be sure. There is also a stone, large flat outlay known as the "Leo Petroglyph" that clearly displays the use of the Proto-Sinaitic (which is close to Egyptian, Egyptian Hyro symbols and Ogam all in one. Could be a freekin Rosetta stone of sorts but its in north america so know one would consider that idea....even though there it is. I listened to a lecture at a seminar on the stone. Man said it represented a mixed crew of metal prospectors.

I will post some pics. If you want to look into it yourself print out a page of the Proto-sinaitic alphabet and compare it to the Leo. Very rewarding.




Here is a combo image employing both Ogam and the Sinaitic in one body. The "wings" are in Ogam and the dead giveaway is the "a" vowel" there by itself in the body. The head and the hands are in the Sinaitic, with the Ogam in what is called the "rebus" form.



Here is more rebus Ogam and rebus Proto-Sinaitic combo.



More from Leo.

You can look online at the Leo Petroglyph. Some of the better Proto-Sinaitic is not show in any of the pictures you can find. I have been there myself and have gone over it all. There is actually a sentence of a few words written in the Proto that is very close to a common supplication found in copper mines in the Sinai area.

Enjoy.

a reply to: Logarock
Cool I will have a look
There is a legend that a Welsh prince called Prince Madoc ap Meurig, sailed to America in the 6th Century and set up colonies there. That's four centuries before the Vikings!!

a reply to: urbanghost


Someone set up a monument for him at Mobil Bay Alabama.

Some info

originally posted by: Logarock

Wow log!
I'll tell you what I'm seeing there...

The Sun or a Comet/Meteor?
The Serpent / Snake?
A Man, arms outstretched, who's body flows through the Ogham script (wings) into another figure, which to me, looks very like a representation of the beaked "bird-men" that we saw on some pictish stones earlier?

Do we know what the Ogham script actually says?

That's a doozy regardless!
Thanks for sharing.
G

a reply to: Logarock

Wow, that is really something. I'm with Gordi, has anyone 'translated' this?

a reply to: beansidhe


I did some work on it but it was over a decade ago. Just taking a stab at it. All I was doing really was trying to find sound values for the Sinaitic. The photos and rendering you find on line for this are weak. There is like I have said and actual sentence in the Sinaitic style.....like this..



....but it is not shown. Some speculate that Proto-Sinaitic and others Ogam are the oldest know alphabets in the world. Other say they were alphabets used by a certain people......digging in Egyptian cooper mines as slaves.





Carnyx in Ohio by the way?