Do You Take the Shot?

I see people arguing on posts far too often now due to the prevalence of the public shooting. This isn't pro or con gun control. People can argue that somewhere else. The scenario is simple and is directed toward those who carry openly or concealed or even illegally...You are in a Mall or large open public gathering area. Gunfire comes from a direction that becomes evident as people flee and cower behind planters, whatever they can find. In the chaos, you see someone with a weapon drawn...you have to decide since you are armed. Do you take the shot?

QUICK!!!

LIVES ARE AT STAKE!!! He sees you...

the owlbear
Mods feel free to move this, I felt current events was as good a place as any with the current uptick of public shootings.

I see people arguing on posts far too often now due to the prevalence of the public shooting. This isn't pro or con gun control. People can argue that somewhere else. The scenario is simple and is directed toward those who carry openly or concealed or even illegally...You are in a Mall or large open public gathering area. Gunfire comes from a direction that becomes evident as people flee and cower behind planters, whatever they can find. In the chaos, you see someone with a weapon drawn...you have to decide since you are armed. Do you take the shot?

QUICK!!!

LIVES ARE AT STAKE!!! He sees you...

Yup bang.


Now im going to get all the Gun NutZ saying what if he was a concealised carrier yada yada. Fact is dont know dont care. If there a shooter on the lose and a un uniformed person draws his weapon he takes that risk

reply to post by the owlbear


This isn't meant to be judgemental. I'm curious.
I see people responding how they would shoot back.
But what if the person you saw was, like you armed, and you don't know what has happened, but you have the option of saving lives by shooting a spree killer or possibly shooting someone who is simply armed like yourself?

reply to post by the owlbear


Well first off you have to be sure the person with the gun isn't someone else, just like you, who happens to be carrying and is responding to the real threat.

That being said: if the target is clearly identified, is posing an active threat, and my firing at the target will not cause collateral damage to anyone beyond the target, then I would take the shot.

There are a lot of things to consider before attempting to take another persons life, they must be considered quickly in an active shooter situation. So long as the considerations are taken, and I don't pose a bigger threat in my response, I see it as the best move to try to eliminate the threat that others who are not as well equipped or trained may be facing.

reply to post by crazyewok


only if my shot is a safe shot, and if i miss his return fire would not hit someone. ie if there is a clear sight picture around both of us.
nothing could be worse than hitting someone else or if i draw his fire and he misses me and hits someone else.

you can say all you want, trained police practice all the time and can't hit sh@@ with 15 shots. adrenaline does funky things.



ETA i hit the reply button on the wrong post, i was replying to the op.

Yes, I as well would take the shot, if I knew for a fact that this was the shooter. No, I would wait till this is varified and not take an innocent life, for the dweebs, this means my varification, actively, and certain. Thing is I would most likely empty the clip in the psyco, and not ask for forgiveness...from anyone...

All you have to do is look for the nutcase running around dressed like Rambo and waving an AK47 in the air (seems to be the Prozac weapon of choice for these folks)...

Aim.
Squeeze.
Done.



... your feelings of guilt for taking a human life won't kick in for about 24 hours, so you have until then to drown yourself in a good scotch whiskey, or two, or twelve.

reply to post by crazyewok


I'm not a Gun NutZ...
Appreciate the honest response. The same goes for everyone who has read or participated thus far. That is what I am seeking with this. Because initial reaction and conditioned response are factors that will start coming into play.
I know you have different gun laws in the UK, and in your situation it is probably a safer bet that the person you see will be the nutjob rather than the hero. Yub Nub, Ewok!

CranialSponge
All you have to do is look for the nutcase running around dressed like Rambo and waving an AK47 in the air (seems to be the Prozac weapon of choice for these folks)...

Aim.
Squeeze.
Done.



... your feelings of guilt for taking a human life won't kick in for about 24 hours, so you have until then to drown yourself in a good scotch whiskey, or two, or twelve.

I wonder about that...the Rambo survivalist type is easy to spot, I agree. But how many HUNTER types walk around in camouflage who might be carrying a gun? They would probably more likely than Joe Beergut with a golf visor. Or even people who dress in what has been typified by the media as "gang culture" clothing in an urban area.
I just don't know...what is the point of certainty where perception and preconception merge or diverge when we start facing what is quickly becoming a new Wild West?

See, this is where it can get tricky for some and an innocent person could get whacked. I wouldn't fire on the person unless I saw, with my own eyes, this person shooting at innocent people, or if he executed someone. I would have to be sure. If I was confident that this person was a nut job, then yes, in order to save peoples lives, I would put one in him. I'm not the type of guy who's gonna be hiding in a broom closet.

Sorry planning things out rationally behind the computer is a completely different scenario then being in the situation . Pretty much why police and military train for panicked situations .

No one can for certain how one would react in such a situation .

Grossly I find it disgusting how many people just seem to get off on the idea of shooting people and empting their clips in people and claim not to feel bad lol .. Should probably be one of the last people to have a fire arm with that mentality . Not right in the head at all.. A one many police judge and executioner . Funny how seems ok for the public to have that mind set but not a government .. lol seriously

This kinda reminds me of a psychological test .

reply to post by freedomSlave


True. No one knows how they will react in such a situation. But people ARE walking around armed and ready to do just that. They aren't police or military. And I would like to know the range of their responses.

1. Make sure the person you see REALLY IS the antagonist. You might not be the only good citizen trying to make a difference.

2. Make sure you are in range or can get into range easily and quickly. i.e.: that the target is within your personal capabilities.

3. Make sure there are no potential victims behind your target who could be accidentally hit. You are responsible if you hit the wrong person.

4. Maintain situational awareness around you. What if someone else thinks YOU are the antagonist?

"someone with a weapon" is not really a reason... so... no, I'd have to assess the situation first. By your description it feels like that I'm shooting the first shadow that comes out of the fog, so... no I wouldnt take any shot.

Gimme a break...
You cover as best you can, draw a bead and wait...

Something the police don't do that often nowadays...the just SHOOT!

You assess the perp to see if he needs to die...if he aims at you, or
an obvious innocent...he dies

...of course human nature tells us that some people, even those with a CC,
couldn't pull the trigger anyway

the owlbear
I just don't know...what is the point of certainty where perception and preconception merge or diverge when we start facing what is quickly becoming a new Wild West?

Yet another anti-gun argument? I am amused at how you try to belittle those who own weapons as Nutz. Or is that you failed your English class? (Maybe it should be clazz?...LOL)

Can you please post some facts, from a absolute credible source that the US is turning into the Wild West? And anybody who has the slightest sense of history knows that the Wild West really wasn’t that wild and gun control was a very big thing back then. The “Wild West is a fabrication of Hollywood, so at least we now know where your perception comes from. How’s Justin Bieber doin’?

And as pointed out, the scenario you propose is entirely too vague.
What is the distance to the shooter? How are they armed?
How many people are there between the shooter and yourself and are they all running or have frozen in place in fear?
Does the shooter have a pistol, shotgun, or rifle?
Is there anything that you could use as cover and concealment between you and the shooter?
What about Mall/Store security or lack of it? If they have it, where are they so you don’t get mistaken and shot in the back yourself.

The variables are many.

Don't Libz (see what I did there?) have anything better to do than to try to trample my rights?

TDawgRex

the owlbear
I just don't know...what is the point of certainty where perception and preconception merge or diverge when we start facing what is quickly becoming a new Wild West?

Yet another anti-gun argument? I am amused at how you try to belittle those who own weapons as Nutz. Or is that you failed your English class? (Maybe it should be clazz?...LOL)

Can you please post some facts, from a absolute credible source that the US is turning into the Wild West? And anybody who has the slightest sense of history knows that the Wild West really wasn’t that wild and gun control was a very big thing back then. The “Wild West is a fabrication of Hollywood, so at least we now know where your perception comes from. How’s Justin Bieber doin’?

And as pointed out, the scenario you propose is entirely too vague.
What is the distance to the shooter? How are they armed?
How many people are there between the shooter and yourself and are they all running or have frozen in place in fear?
Does the shooter have a pistol, shotgun, or rifle?
Is there anything that you could use as cover and concealment between you and the shooter?
What about Mall/Store security or lack of it? If they have it, where are they so you don’t get mistaken and shot in the back yourself.

The variables are many.

Don't Libz (see what I did there?) have anything better to do than to try to trample my rights?

I could devolve from the original intent of this thread and feed into your fantasy.
I won't. I won't respond to questions of "How is Bieber?" By answering "Just ask Your Mom"...I'm not going there. This thread has a purpose.
To be truthful, I didn't even feel your comment merited much more than a cursory glance.
You may go about your business...move along.

That is why I am trying to gather is data. If you are armed, would you shoot?
No one gets to "pick" the situation when it happens...if you feel offended, it is on you and it shows your character.

the owlbear
I could devolve from the original intent of this thread and feed into your fantasy.
I won't. I won't respond to questions of "How is Bieber?" By answering "Just ask Your Mom"...I'm not going there. This thread has a purpose.
To be truthful, I didn't even feel your comment merited much more than a cursory glance.
You may go about your business...move along.

That is why I am trying to gather is data. If you are armed, would you shoot?
No one gets to "pick" the situation when it happens...if you feel offended, it is on you and it shows your character.

edit on 25-1-2014 by the owlbear because: (no reason given)

What kind of data? Only data that you agree with? Now before I go about my “business”, can you tell us exactly what kind of data are you looking for, other than “would you shoot?”

Many of the replies have pointed out the flaw in the situation that you put us in. But that doesn’t fit your mold, does it? It’s a biased question right from the get go.

And you were the one who used inflammatory language first (the gun nutz remark), so you should not be at all surprised when it comes back at you. But I'm not offended; I'm rather amused by such a simple minded question. The question itself is what I would call a fantasy.

I was just giving you my thoughts on it. But I guess a thought out reply is not what you are looking for. You want to see people responding with “Kill’em all and let God sort ‘em out.” That would fit your opinion of us gun-nutz, wouldn’t it?

Make sure the shooter isn't doin the same thing I'm doing and if he the bad guy he'll be the dead guy.

TDawgRex

the owlbear
I could devolve from the original intent of this thread and feed into your fantasy.
I won't. I won't respond to questions of "How is Bieber?" By answering "Just ask Your Mom"...I'm not going there. This thread has a purpose.
To be truthful, I didn't even feel your comment merited much more than a cursory glance.
You may go about your business...move along.

That is why I am trying to gather is data. If you are armed, would you shoot?
No one gets to "pick" the situation when it happens...if you feel offended, it is on you and it shows your character.

edit on 25-1-2014 by the owlbear because: (no reason given)

What kind of data? Only data that you agree with? Now before I go about my “business”, can you tell us exactly what kind of data are you looking for, other than “would you shoot?”

Many of the replies have pointed out the flaw in the situation that you put us in. But that doesn’t fit your mold, does it? It’s a biased question right from the get go.

And you were the one who used inflammatory language first (the gun nutz remark), so you should not be at all surprised when it comes back at you. But I'm not offended; I'm rather amused by such a simple minded question. The question itself is what I would call a fantasy.

I was just giving you my thoughts on it. But I guess a thought out reply is not what you are looking for. You want to see people responding with “Kill’em all and let God sort ‘em out.” That would fit your opinion of us gun-nutz, wouldn’t it?

I only read out of your reply "You used Gun NutZ first"...

Why don't you read the whole thread?
I didn't. Unless that CrazyEwok edited his post...

I doubt it.
Keep talking, though...and btw...I escaped the whole librul/consurvtjeebus argument long ago...would you like some cheese with that?