i didnt want to be "that" guy, but here it is, the reason the collapse is happening.

reply to post by misschareesee2


The following is strictly an opinion , but . The Global Elite has a plan to destroy all of the economy and governments of the world in order to assume control of the Globe . This is a very old plan that is very controversial but real and adapting to todays situations . They control the Finances and thus currencies of the world . They also control the News and Media of the world and name presidents by campaign contributions . Their fingers are into all areas of business and law to further their goals .
I don't believe that there is anything we can do to stop the machinery of their takeover . Henry Ford learned this first hand .

TheLieWeLive
This thread is amusing. A lot of good points from both sides of the argument. That said I've always been confused by 'illegal' immigration from any American area to another American area. How can a 'Mexican' come to United States of America illegally when in fact they are from 'Central America'?
Do we so easily forget that Mexicans and other Central and South American countries are all Native American "Indians"? They speak Spanish only because they were conquered into doing so.

We have to bring our industry back. That's the overall problem. It's not just who is working the jobs it's the fact we have less manufacturing to provide those jobs. Fresh out of high school I worked at a manufacturing plant. A few years in I relocated within the company because my line went to Mexico and India. Why? Cheaper labor there even though I was barely above minimum wage here. How much did they really save doing this? I'm sure it wasn't cheap sending laborers up to learn our job and then the cost of moving those big machines out of the country.

We've also shot ourselves in the foot with the cost of living and our wages growing too fast. It's similar to my current place of employment. My employers paid some individuals too high of wages to start their job and now other lower paid employees want a raise and there is nothing to give because those others employees are already promised to much money starting off. In the end there is no more room to grow financially and if the company doesn't make an already large amount each year to be able to afford those salaries they start laying people off and all the lower paid employees have to take up the slack without a raise to do so.

Economic collapse is going to happen. You may want to befriend an illegal and have them show you how to survive it.
I

Yes a couple hundred years ago this was their land, this is not the case today, nor the reality.

I know, every black person in America deserves land in Africa now, and my European ancestors deserve land in Ireland..............you see how hundreds of years of history of what was vs what is makes this silly right?

I mean I am at present seriously sitting on a former T-rex territory, does he still own it, or are we moving on to reality now?

oblvion
Please America, pretty please..........wake the F up.

All these things which go wrong in the world is because of automation. Forget illegal immigrants taking over the country, forget the Middle East and oil, forget everything and start learn how to program or study medicine/care because you and I might see the day almost all jobs get replaced.

Whether it'll be paradise for everyone or just those who can afford it we'll have to wait and see.

St Udio

oblvion



Beautiful, you are right in part, but flooding the jobs market with low cost workers did undercut the middle class, this is without question.

yes indeed
they are a part of the troubles...but there is also operations like fast & furious that armed the drug cartels and forced many to flee a dangerous life and shelter situation in Mexico--- remember there were official industrial zones in Mexico where the local would be hired to man the Industrial plants of N American companies located in Mexico--- there was a tremendous effort to keep workers in Mexico at one time


the mass of people entering the USA was not intended to provide low cost labor for the unwanted Jobs in the U.S. --- the federal government made a deliberate effort to ignore the Mexicans & others sneaking over the border (for various reasons) see the federal gov't wanted a huge influx of people that need things to keep an economy running & to potentially augment the labor force that pays into social security (sooner-or-later)...

see the accountants can do dazzling long term models of Sovereign Solvency issues in regards to being able to pay Bonds/Treasury note interest on a ever mushrooming source of Revenues.... that my friend was the tipping-point which made illeagle-immigrants a non-issue
and their preordained Amnesty, and voter rights a matter of policy



so, how did the money-changers/Masters-of-the-Universe cause the Jobs to vaporize, not to undocumented aliens but to policies like NAFTA, offshoring jobs to India, SE Asia, etc... and cutting off cheap loans to companies for recurring payrolls... the higher loan fees made the business community profits even less - so culling the workforce was the direction that the companies went to maintain their P-E ratios...
all this was designed by the Globalist elites, for the federal govt to enforce the disruption & destruction of the middle-class economy of ever expanding credit..
in favor of ever expanding debit growth for the banker-finance industries to profit from with unethical and false bond products disguised as the plethora of CDS/MBS/ and a baker's dozen of fraudulent pieces of paper that have a zero-sum-gain prognosis, but do account for 10ths or hundredths of cents per transaction fee to the government tax revenue Digital storehouse



but i digress too far into the rabbit hole/matrix

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edit on th31139015740719502014 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

OK....wow...just....wow.

Please make a new thread about this, as you obviously have a lot to say on this issue, and this issue is much wider then this topic of current discussion.

BTW, bravo!!!!!!!!!!!! You called it right.

I hope you continue in this thread, as you will obviously be an asset to the discussion, but I emplore you to make a thread of your own about it, as you are right, and mine hasn't yet drawn any of the better financial minds of ATS at present.

If you can attract "bigfatfurrytexan" and further explain what you just said............I might have a mental overload.

BFFT is one of the smartest financial minds I have ever debated, we never agree on much, be he knows all facets of financial policy with amazing first had insight

spiritspeak

oblvion
Please America, pretty please..........wake the F up.

All these things which go wrong in the world is because of automation. Forget illegal immigrants taking over the country, forget the Middle East and oil, forget everything and start learn how to program or study medicine/care because you and I might see the day almost all jobs get replaced.

Whether it'll be paradise for everyone or just those who can afford it we'll have to wait and see.

Elysium is what I think it will look like unless we take back control now.

reply to post by oblvion


You are on the right track there Oblivion.
It is all part of their long term plan in this new Globalist Utopia. (New World Order)
What happens when all 6 billion people on earth are competing in the Global Markets with the technology we have?
There are many countries that they have yet to exploit.
Everyone will be making the same low wages (supply and demand) except the elites at the top.

They bailed out the banks and not the homeowners because they are (Banks) the linchpin in this grand master plan. They are doing "Gods Work"

Notice how many of the things we grow in this country get exported to say South America, and the same crops grown in South America and Mexico and so on come back to us?

It is to create interdependence among nations, the same reason for Multi Cultural Diversity and the influx of immigrants.

A New World Order where the "Rule of Law (Their rules) and "Not the rule of the Jungle" rules the day.
The old way was to rule by Nationalism.

The new way is to rule through Interconnected Multinational Corporations and Banks, where all countries are dependent on them.

The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.”
― David Rockefeller

“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
― David Rockefeller

“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years......It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.

MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by CleanCare

 

How many companies / corporations have been raked over the coals for hiring undocumented workers?. One?, Two?, I haven't heard of very many at all really, but there are a lot of them out there who do hire undocumented workers, we all know that.

You think maybe if the, so called "Illegals" (I despise that stupid term BTW) didn't have the potential for gaining employment here they would even come here?.

The problem is not illegal immigrants, the problem is that there are so many businesses that are more than happy to take advantage of their being here.

Capitalism = Exploitation

Well said Happy.

We can increase our border security as much as we want and it will not stop them all from finding ways to get in as long as there are employers that will hire them. There should be stiff consequences against those hiring them and actually Enforced! as well.
It is the same with the Drug War.
There are buyers in the US and there are sellers they want to sell it from Mexico.
Legalizing it would cut out a big chunk of the war.

Also, employers raising what they are willing to pay in the markets would attract American's if they can't get any American's to do the job at what they are offering. It was all American's that did it in the past and they can do it again. That is how the market is supposed to work.

reply to post by oblvion


People prepared to work for lower wages is the very definition of 'free market', the market is free to set it's own wage levels.

It seems to me that to state one believes in a free market then to suggest it must have controls attached to it, whatever those controls are, is completely contradictory.

Either you want a free market or you don't you cannot have a 'selective free market' there is no such thing.

It seems to me free market economics are fine until it begins to work against people, well the global market is a free market and it will ebb and flow, to complain when the market that once afforded such luxury and comfort shifts and offers that opportunity to someone else is more than a little churlish not to mention hypocritical, that's free market capitalism. Those who spent generations being lived off by the richer nations are now reaping the benefits of low value economies.

reply to post by oblvion


Regardless of what my opinion on illegal immigrants is, one thing you say is true - no other nation on earth that I know of would let that many people immigrate illegally.

There are two more points I want to make - one of them is that there are challenges presented with this issue. The corruption in the Mexican government, regarding both police and drug cartels, makes immigrating legally costly - too costly - as in bribes and death involved -

The other is that there are a lot of farmers and even manufacturers at times who are using these illegals as cheap sources of labor.

Hoosierdaddy71

We the people are the reason it happened. Twenty years ago we went to a store to buy a wagon for our five year old. We didn't buy the radio flyer made in Wisconsin USA, we bought the Chinese import wagon for $10 less. We didn't buy the shirt made in the USA, we bought the shirt made in Taiwan. Yes businesses try to make as much money as possible, but we the people find the cheapest products no matter why the product is cheaper.

Who lobbied for the trade pacts with China and Mexico?
Where was the cheap Chinese junk prior to the trade pacts for the consumers to buy?

Is anyone paying attention to TPP or Fast Track? Probably not. Just like NAFTA. The citizens were asleep.

jacobe001

Hoosierdaddy71

We the people are the reason it happened. Twenty years ago we went to a store to buy a wagon for our five year old. We didn't buy the radio flyer made in Wisconsin USA, we bought the Chinese import wagon for $10 less. We didn't buy the shirt made in the USA, we bought the shirt made in Taiwan. Yes businesses try to make as much money as possible, but we the people find the cheapest products no matter why the product is cheaper.

Who lobbied for the trade pacts with China and Mexico?
Where was the cheap Chinese junk prior to the trade pacts for the consumers to buy?

The liquer store didn't make you get drunk and wreck your car. The fork didn't make you fat. Don't blame the polititions that we the people voted into office. Maybe we should make better choices on who we send to Washington. Granted they are mostly idiots but we put them in there.

Hoosierdaddy71

jacobe001

Hoosierdaddy71

We the people are the reason it happened. Twenty years ago we went to a store to buy a wagon for our five year old. We didn't buy the radio flyer made in Wisconsin USA, we bought the Chinese import wagon for $10 less. We didn't buy the shirt made in the USA, we bought the shirt made in Taiwan. Yes businesses try to make as much money as possible, but we the people find the cheapest products no matter why the product is cheaper.

Who lobbied for the trade pacts with China and Mexico?
Where was the cheap Chinese junk prior to the trade pacts for the consumers to buy?

The liquer store didn't make you get drunk and wreck your car. The fork didn't make you fat. Don't blame the polititions that we the people voted into office. Maybe we should make better choices on who we send to Washington. Granted they are mostly idiots but we put them in there.

Since when does the popular vote get people into washington? The pres is elected by the electoral college and congress is ran by special interest and those votes are just rigged as the pres.

As an American who loves his country, I am disappointed to say that it is the gluttony, greed, and lazy content that has been pumped into our minds via the media and corporate/technocratic entities that has allowed globalization, inequality, and overall economic suffering to proliferate. I've noticed the way that hard work and education is promoted more in the rest of the developed world, sans America... while Americans have been sold a wash of arrogance and hopelessness in the ultimate divisive expression of work hard, then play... or work hard, then self-medicate/destruct... or don't work, thus full-time play/self-medicate/destruct... while either supporting the military/police state (workers), or being supported by the same entities to distract people through means of displaying hopelessness in the forms of taking handouts, committing crimes or expressions of jealousy.

It's all a means to use the United States as the breeding ground for the rise of globalism and world dominance. The internet and all of the "automated systems" that have been spoken of here have served to build the infrastructure for The Powers That Be's future dystopia of global control and slavery. And once they have squeezed all that they can squeeze out of the most spoiled nation on earth (by circumstance - there really are innocent victims here), they plan to burn this country to the ground and focus on their newly-secured third world labor pool, which obviously has been proven to produce for much, much cheaper. America has been fattened for the great slaughter... however, the stumbling block which the globalists face is that with more advanced automation comes more vulnerability and weakness. Separation from nature. Their failure is inevitable.

It's a great time for people to learn to make things succeed within the microcosms that they can work, while acknowledging the big picture. Be aware of the world and its workings, but set realistic personal goals. This must happen before bigger, more complex problems can be resolved.

reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71


You still think that we have some sort of a choice . The Bilderberg Elite owns both dogs in the race . You can choose the candidate of their choosing . Then that candidate is compelled to advance their cause if he wants money to successfully run again for office . Our voting on the Electronic vote machines is suspect too! We have become like the kid on the 25cent ride at the mall turning the steering wheel not hooked to anything just imagining we have control .

I tell everyone, look no further than what is happening in Canada to see what the future will be like. You guys at least have unionized low skilled workers we dont.

For years the govt has been allowing companies here to replace good paying jobs with low paying minimum wage jobs with no security. Not just fast food employees anymore. Much of the healthcare system has moved towards a low paid workforce, manufacturing as well. Now even many trades can land you a one way ticket to the poor house.

Its gotten so bad that most people cant afford to buy houses or cars anymore. Those who do become slaves to financing and can never hope to have things like a savings or financial security.

Canada is slowly becoming one of the most expensive countries to live. Average price of a home is now over 400k (however much of the western provinces are around 600k and we have several cities that frequently make the top ten most expensive cities in the world). You need to make around 80K a year to even consider buying a starter home here.

Our small, rural communities have had their industries killed and have been tapped out for years. Many of these places lead the country in crime rate/drug use and have some of the highest unemployment rates and suicide rates in the country. Any community with resource based industry (that isnt oil) have gone downhill and are generally considered poor places to live (keeping in mind that these cities were the backbone of the Canadian economy).

Speaking of the unemployment rate, ours is officially higher than the US. We are losing jobs hand over fist. You cannot even hope to find a decent job to feed your family here unless you have several college/university degrees (thanks academic inflation).

And dont even get me started on the government. At least yours tries to hide their shady dealings. Ours robs us in plain sight. They let corporations do what they want and they do nothing to hide this fact. They even steal peoples land to build military training facilities. Its crazy.

Canada is a perfect example of the evils of Capitalism and out of control corporate greed. My and my wife are even contemplating moving to the US because with my career I can make more money in the US than I can in Canada. Here the only place you can make good money is out in the oil patch and I downright refuse. Not going to move 750 miles just to be able to feed my family. Not going to live in cities that purposely keep the vacancy rate low so they can charge you 3000 dollars a month for a stupid 2 bedroom apartment. Its that or the other choice is you live in a community owned by the oil companies in the middle of nowhere and all you do is work 18 effin hours a day. Screw that.

Its insane here.

It wasnt this bad not even ten years ago. Going downhill fast.

HanoiLullaby


It seems to me free market economics are fine until it begins to work against people, well the global market is a free market and it will ebb and flow, to complain when the market that once afforded such luxury and comfort shifts and offers that opportunity to someone else is more than a little churlish not to mention hypocritical, that's free market capitalism. Those who spent generations being lived off by the richer nations are now reaping the benefits of low value economies.

We do not have a Global Free Market either.
To have a true Global free market, we would have to go back to a military defending our borders only and not defending the petrol dollar nor defending and / or exploiting other countries for our corporations and banks gains at tax payer expense.

MOMof3
Is anyone paying attention to TPP or Fast Track? Probably not. Just like NAFTA. The citizens were asleep.

Yup, Been Paying attention here, and the TPP is Nafta on Steriods.
It is the finishing touch to destroy this country.

Hoosierdaddy71

Who lobbied for the trade pacts with China and Mexico?
Where was the cheap Chinese junk prior to the trade pacts for the consumers to buy?

The liquer store didn't make you get drunk and wreck your car. The fork didn't make you fat. Don't blame the polititions that we the people voted into office. Maybe we should make better choices on who we send to Washington. Granted they are mostly idiots but we put them in there.

American's can only buy what is available to them in the markets.
It is our Foreign Economic Policies and trade pacts that determine what is available in the markets and it is the consumer that determines if it is allowed to stay in the markets. Go to Walmart and 80% of their stuff is Chinese Junk, so there really is not much choice there, is there?

In the 70's, there was a strip in town consisting of various foreign goods from around the world.
There was one china mart that was about the size of a gas station. That was the extent of Chinese Products in this country despite the consumers access to it, until the trade pacts were created.

Also, not anyone can be president in this country because you pretty much need to have a million dollars to even start.

They have exactly how they want it.

reply to post by jacobe001


Then blame your parents for the mess we are in, they bought the cheap import crap before you did.