Another Suicide Attack?

reply to post by NorEaster


Playing video games is not really a factor in this as over 90% of kids today play video games and that number wouldn't shift downward much with an increase of age into the 20's. In other words, gaming is very common these days. However, what you're suggesting that it is a vehicle for someone to try to stir individuals up to do such acts. I was playing a video game and a guy started to harass me in the most disturbing of ways using the very subject of school shootings. The only thing that stood out about me was that I held the top score on the server and while that does generally cause people to start up on people, this was the creepiest and most disturbing experience I've had yet and I've been gaming for a long time. "Are you alright?", "I'm worried about you", "You're not going to get mad and go shoot up a school are you?" and proceeded to go on like that both professing "concern" over me possibly becoming a shooter. He had another friend with him that basically fueled the dialogue regardless of whether I responded or not. It was really very disturbing and the very distinct vibe that I got was the guy was NUTS.

I actually checked out his profile as I was reporting his account for what I felt was dangerous behavior. He claimed to game for God. Wish I was kidding about that. Based on a couple phrases that they used to target me showing up in his screenshots, I'm guessing it's a regular routine for them to go onto a server and start acting as if someone on it is a shooter. Guy was from Alabama playing on a Seattle server to boot. Any other gamer would know that in a ping sensitive game, you want to stick to at least the same region but these guys don't.

Not sure if that's what you're thinking but thought I'd share. I wouldn't have thought people would behave like that on such a loaded subject. Boy was I naive.

Indigent
reply to post by NorEaster

 

So gang rapes in India trend, or knock em out game trend, not a fashion but a psy-ops?

Gang rapes in India? What's that got to do with any of this?

there is nothing normal sir, normal is what your environment is, if you was raised in different conditions those conditions would be your normal. someone normal is not another people normal.

The young guys I'm talking about were raised in what the US calls normal conditions. I have no idea what's normal in India.

zeroBelief

NorEaster
Mass killing isn't normal behavior for anyone. It takes covering quite a distance before you even get into the area code where mass killing is even accepted as a rage response. A psy-ops pro could help a kid make that journey, and that's all I'm suggesting here.

I do have to agree, that I think there is a high possibility and probability of *some* of this being gov't influenced. The Arvada shooting, the Navy Yard shooting, etc....

I believe the dots you have here, and I believe they are worth connecting...is the involvement with the military and or a DARPA related project...and the psychiatric care...not just involving SSRI's, but any form of psychotherapy coupled with just about any form of medication....

The mind is a fragile and malleable thing.

I have a serious problem seeing the government's involvement in this. Even the CIA is primarily structured to serve the biggest players on Wall Street, and not our government per se. Our government doesn't even do any of its own functional activities, but contracts it all out to the private sector. Hell, even our military leaders have private security guards, which seems pretty bizarre considering that they've got an entire army of professional soldiers to choose from for their personal security detail.

I think some of you guys imagine our federal government as being as massive as the federal budget. It's not. 90% of that money (that's not SS or Medicare) goes to private contracting firms that actually do the work and manage the processes. Very little is actually handled by our federal government anymore.

The guy shooting up a grocery store or a school or a mall is the American version of a suicide bomber. In this country you can't get away with building bombs for long (maybe a one-off here and there) but there are guns everywhere. Terrorism is about scaring people into isolation from each other. Making them afraid to do normal things. Like sending their kids to school, shopping at a grocery store, that sort of thing. The government hasn't got any way of benefiting from terror since the "post-9/11" hysteria stopped being fashionable. No elections that will be affected by an Al Qaeda video clip anymore. No war to promote and justify anymore.

Ten years ago, the federal government was terrorizing us. That stuff only works at that level for a period of time in a society like ours. This comes across as very different, and (for now) without any mass media marketing effort that's being tightly coordinated along with it - as was the case in the early part of the last decade. This doesn't have a corporate "fingerprint", and since the private sector handles all federal government efforts, that's important to look for. This is a lot more nuanced and not as easy to readily identify. This is starting small, and has a grass-roots feel to it. Definitely not a big budget heavy-handed corporate terror campaign.

mikegrouchy

NorEaster

I don't know why I'm feeling a strong link between these incidents,

Where they all white guys?



Raised in an emasculated environment with
an overwhelming absence of a single positive male figure
either in their lives,
or anywhere in the media and entertainment they consume?

Mike Grouchy

There are millions of those guys everywhere in the US, as well as in Europe and all developed nations. If that was a factor, it'd be impossible to make it to Starbucks for a mocha latte without getting gunned down by some metrosexual with a confused sexual identity.

Kali74
Interesting take on these horrible events. I'm not sure that I agree on causation but your context kind of helped solidify something for me and I think it may have a lot more to do with personality archetypes and limited growth potential combined with the gaming culture. I'm a gamer myself and well familiar with the verbal brutality that you literally can't escape unless you refuse to read/listen to chat, something I don't think young males are mature enough to do... they want to fight back, be men. For psychologically vulnerable young men to enter a world that they feel they should be able to be all powerful, be their ego and then get continually slapped down even if they aren't a 'terribad' player... I can see it being enough to make a young dude snap even to the extremes that we've seen... all without subliminal catalysts.

If it's that bad in those places, then yeah, it could be a great place to identify "loose screws" to then concentrate on. Thing is that if all you want is for someone to make a mess somewhere, and you don't care where, then how hard would it be to push someone who's limping and trying with all his might to keep up with the herd. If you stalked him long enough, you'd probably get pretty familiar with him. It might not even require a pro psy-ops to send him off to realityland with a gun. You might be able to do it as a rank amateur with a twisted need to see your handiwork on the evening news somewhere. Scary stuff.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Playing video games is not really a factor in this as over 90% of kids today play video games and that number wouldn't shift downward much with an increase of age into the 20's. In other words, gaming is very common these days. However, what you're suggesting that it is a vehicle for someone to try to stir individuals up to do such acts. I was playing a video game and a guy started to harass me in the most disturbing of ways using the very subject of school shootings. The only thing that stood out about me was that I held the top score on the server and while that does generally cause people to start up on people, this was the creepiest and most disturbing experience I've had yet and I've been gaming for a long time. "Are you alright?", "I'm worried about you", "You're not going to get mad and go shoot up a school are you?" and proceeded to go on like that both professing "concern" over me possibly becoming a shooter. He had another friend with him that basically fueled the dialogue regardless of whether I responded or not. It was really very disturbing and the very distinct vibe that I got was the guy was NUTS.

I actually checked out his profile as I was reporting his account for what I felt was dangerous behavior. He claimed to game for God. Wish I was kidding about that. Based on a couple phrases that they used to target me showing up in his screenshots, I'm guessing it's a regular routine for them to go onto a server and start acting as if someone on it is a shooter. Guy was from Alabama playing on a Seattle server to boot. Any other gamer would know that in a ping sensitive game, you want to stick to at least the same region but these guys don't.

Not sure if that's what you're thinking but thought I'd share. I wouldn't have thought people would behave like that on such a loaded subject. Boy was I naive.

Holy sh*t. That's exactly the kind of thing I was imagining here. Only more focused on losers than winners. Still, that does seem like a really volatile environment for anyone that's already dealing with psychological or emotional problems. Maybe I should write a suspense novel based on this idea. It could get really messed up if I let my imagination run wild.

reply to post by NorEaster


Yeah, it freaked the hell out of me because I really did not imagine that anybody would use such a thing to troll. I mean, it's pretty tasteless and scary. It blew my mind and honestly, I was disturbed for a few days afterwards. Traditionally, in games--particularly FPS--those at the top of the score boards are frequently the targets of trolling. In this case, I think the player in question and his friend were using the old play on the "if you're good, you play video games too much and are a loser" routine but with a very different twist in implying that "I game too much; ergo, I must be a possible shooter". I'm honestly just glad that he picked me amongst the crowd because as a mom of two in her 40's, it just had a disturbing effect (so not the profile lol) and I reported it appropriately. I basically willfully shoved the event out of my mind because of the creep factor until I read what you suggested and I have a tough gamer skin.

So yeah, there is an individual that does play a video game that is actually poking a hornet's nest of possibility. You hit really close to reality on that and maybe you should write that book. Check your inbox in a minute.

reply to post by NorEaster


That is a scary thought.
I'm gonna pay extra attention to chat for a while, see if I pick up on anything.

NorEaster

zeroBelief

NorEaster
Mass killing isn't normal behavior for anyone. It takes covering quite a distance before you even get into the area code where mass killing is even accepted as a rage response. A psy-ops pro could help a kid make that journey, and that's all I'm suggesting here.

I do have to agree, that I think there is a high possibility and probability of *some* of this being gov't influenced. The Arvada shooting, the Navy Yard shooting, etc....

I believe the dots you have here, and I believe they are worth connecting...is the involvement with the military and or a DARPA related project...and the psychiatric care...not just involving SSRI's, but any form of psychotherapy coupled with just about any form of medication....

The mind is a fragile and malleable thing.

I have a serious problem seeing the government's involvement in this. Even the CIA is primarily structured to serve the biggest players on Wall Street, and not our government per se. Our government doesn't even do any of its own functional activities, but contracts it all out to the private sector. Hell, even our military leaders have private security guards, which seems pretty bizarre considering that they've got an entire army of professional soldiers to choose from for their personal security detail.

I think some of you guys imagine our federal government as being as massive as the federal budget. It's not. 90% of that money (that's not SS or Medicare) goes to private contracting firms that actually do the work and manage the processes. Very little is actually handled by our federal government anymore.

The guy shooting up a grocery store or a school or a mall is the American version of a suicide bomber. In this country you can't get away with building bombs for long (maybe a one-off here and there) but there are guns everywhere. Terrorism is about scaring people into isolation from each other. Making them afraid to do normal things. Like sending their kids to school, shopping at a grocery store, that sort of thing. The government hasn't got any way of benefiting from terror since the "post-9/11" hysteria stopped being fashionable. No elections that will be affected by an Al Qaeda video clip anymore. No war to promote and justify anymore.

Ten years ago, the federal government was terrorizing us. That stuff only works at that level for a period of time in a society like ours. This comes across as very different, and (for now) without any mass media marketing effort that's being tightly coordinated along with it - as was the case in the early part of the last decade. This doesn't have a corporate "fingerprint", and since the private sector handles all federal government efforts, that's important to look for. This is a lot more nuanced and not as easy to readily identify. This is starting small, and has a grass-roots feel to it. Definitely not a big budget heavy-handed corporate terror campaign.

so, what exactly DO you see as the impetus behind these attacks? Like, in one sentence? Just name it.

zeroBelief

NorEaster

zeroBelief

NorEaster
Mass killing isn't normal behavior for anyone. It takes covering quite a distance before you even get into the area code where mass killing is even accepted as a rage response. A psy-ops pro could help a kid make that journey, and that's all I'm suggesting here.

I do have to agree, that I think there is a high possibility and probability of *some* of this being gov't influenced. The Arvada shooting, the Navy Yard shooting, etc....

I believe the dots you have here, and I believe they are worth connecting...is the involvement with the military and or a DARPA related project...and the psychiatric care...not just involving SSRI's, but any form of psychotherapy coupled with just about any form of medication....

The mind is a fragile and malleable thing.

I have a serious problem seeing the government's involvement in this. Even the CIA is primarily structured to serve the biggest players on Wall Street, and not our government per se. Our government doesn't even do any of its own functional activities, but contracts it all out to the private sector. Hell, even our military leaders have private security guards, which seems pretty bizarre considering that they've got an entire army of professional soldiers to choose from for their personal security detail.

I think some of you guys imagine our federal government as being as massive as the federal budget. It's not. 90% of that money (that's not SS or Medicare) goes to private contracting firms that actually do the work and manage the processes. Very little is actually handled by our federal government anymore.

The guy shooting up a grocery store or a school or a mall is the American version of a suicide bomber. In this country you can't get away with building bombs for long (maybe a one-off here and there) but there are guns everywhere. Terrorism is about scaring people into isolation from each other. Making them afraid to do normal things. Like sending their kids to school, shopping at a grocery store, that sort of thing. The government hasn't got any way of benefiting from terror since the "post-9/11" hysteria stopped being fashionable. No elections that will be affected by an Al Qaeda video clip anymore. No war to promote and justify anymore.

Ten years ago, the federal government was terrorizing us. That stuff only works at that level for a period of time in a society like ours. This comes across as very different, and (for now) without any mass media marketing effort that's being tightly coordinated along with it - as was the case in the early part of the last decade. This doesn't have a corporate "fingerprint", and since the private sector handles all federal government efforts, that's important to look for. This is a lot more nuanced and not as easy to readily identify. This is starting small, and has a grass-roots feel to it. Definitely not a big budget heavy-handed corporate terror campaign.

so, what exactly DO you see as the impetus behind these attacks? Like, in one sentence? Just name it.

Just to see it on the news and to know that he/they made it happen. Just as simple and as addictive as that.

To successfully initiate a real honest-to-goodness national tragedy from the shadows, and get away with it, there's a real palpable feeling of power to be felt in that for a lot more people than you'd ever care to discover.

As to why ... like Alfred said of Heath Ledger's Joker in Batman: The Dark Knight - "Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Kali74
reply to post by NorEaster

 

That is a scary thought.
I'm gonna pay extra attention to chat for a while, see if I pick up on anything.

I think that'd be a really good idea for anyone with a son (or brother) who's making that terrible transition from high school to realityland (job, career, a place of his own, adulthood) and is (not) dealing with it through gaming a lot more than ever before. That's the period of a person's life when schizophrenia hits like a bomb too (if it's ever going to hit, of course). It's a scary period for any guy. Especially now days, with such open access to them by online predators whose motivations most of us could never even imagine. These kinds of predators know that world inside and out, and they really know the people who spend most of their waking hours in that world. A troubled guy probably stands out right away to them.

NorEaster
Just to see it on the news and to know that he/they made it happen. Just as simple and as addictive as that.

To successfully initiate a real honest-to-goodness national tragedy from the shadows, and get away with it, there's a real palpable feeling of power to be felt in that for a lot more people than you'd ever care to discover.

As to why ... like Alfred said of Heath Ledger's Joker in Batman: The Dark Knight - "Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

So....you're seeing this, almost as, a degrade in society? A "sign of the times" due to the aforementioned degrade?

I'm not looking to pick you apart here, not by any means...but rather, to understand your viewpoint simple for the sake of understanding....I know, it's a rare motive these days

zeroBelief

NorEaster
Just to see it on the news and to know that he/they made it happen. Just as simple and as addictive as that.

To successfully initiate a real honest-to-goodness national tragedy from the shadows, and get away with it, there's a real palpable feeling of power to be felt in that for a lot more people than you'd ever care to discover.

As to why ... like Alfred said of Heath Ledger's Joker in Batman: The Dark Knight - "Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

So....you're seeing this, almost as, a degrade in society? A "sign of the times" due to the aforementioned degrade?

Not really. Society isn't any more degraded than it's ever been. This is just an indication of a new kind of threat that may exist as a result of technology and private enterprise putting herds of highly volatile people into highly agitated states and opening the doors on them to severely malevolent people to then do with them whatever it is that they succeed in doing with the most psychologically vulnerable among them.

It's a free world. If Hitler had had the Internet...sh*t, I can't even imagine what a person like that would've been capable of with the technology we have now. This crap - if it's even 1/10 of what I'm suggesting - is really bad, but nothing compared to what a real master could put together, given the marketing potential within some Internet subcultural environments.

NorEaster

zeroBelief

NorEaster
Just to see it on the news and to know that he/they made it happen. Just as simple and as addictive as that.

To successfully initiate a real honest-to-goodness national tragedy from the shadows, and get away with it, there's a real palpable feeling of power to be felt in that for a lot more people than you'd ever care to discover.

As to why ... like Alfred said of Heath Ledger's Joker in Batman: The Dark Knight - "Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

So....you're seeing this, almost as, a degrade in society? A "sign of the times" due to the aforementioned degrade?

Not really. Society isn't any more degraded than it's ever been. This is just an indication of a new kind of threat that may exist as a result of technology and private enterprise putting herds of highly volatile people into highly agitated states and opening the doors on them to severely malevolent people to then do with them whatever it is that they succeed in doing with the most psychologically vulnerable among them.

It's a free world. If Hitler had had the Internet...sh*t, I can't even imagine what a person like that would've been capable of with the technology we have now. This crap - if it's even 1/10 of what I'm suggesting - is really bad, but nothing compared to what a real master could put together, given the marketing potential within some Internet subcultural environments.

edit on 1/18/2014 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

So, you disagreed with the idea of the Gov't being behind it, if not in whole in part even.

You suggest that folks are acting in concert to provoke these fragile minds into doing such horrible things.

Again, not looking to do anything but understand your reasoning....but, WHO are you thinking is behind this? Or are you some how thinking that random sadistic and psychotic individuals are simply searching through the wheat and the chaff of online gaming to find such broken individuals, and then attempt to mold them into killing machines?


Just trying to understand your viewpoint.

zeroBelief

Again, not looking to do anything but understand your reasoning....but, WHO are you thinking is behind this? Or are you some how thinking that random sadistic and psychotic individuals are simply searching through the wheat and the chaff of online gaming to find such broken individuals, and then attempt to mold them into killing machines?


Just trying to understand your viewpoint.

I actually know people who'd get an absolute thrill from this kind of sick stuff. Definitely. Thank God they're not very clever or ambitious. There are a lot of people who just get high off destroying things, and especially other people's lives. It's not much of a stretch to imagine a small cadre of Internet pals (who may only know each other by avatars and user names) seeing what sort of mayhem they can cause. Now, this is not to blame all of the mass shootings on these fools, but the ones that feature shooters with the same demographics (age range, general economic strata, gender, social predilections), psychological profile (generally speaking), Internet gaming background (in general), and general attack strategy (or lack thereof, I suppose). In essence, the ones who each seem to be yet another unbalanced 20-something guy with a lot more rounds and guns than he'll ever get to shoot, and no plan to make it out of the attack alive.

Believe it or not, that's a really specific overall profile, and one that's being repeatedly featured in the higher visibility events. That Indiana kid just picked a grocery store instead of a mall or a school, and his kill count reflected his decision. If he'd gone for a higher traffic target, he'd have been much more recognizable as being akin to the Aurora and Sandy Hook killers. Each of these guys were in that really brutal life transition, even if each one had his own version of it. Not hard to find any of them online and tweak them - if the tweaker knows his business.

It sure as hell doesn't require a government agent. Face it, unless you're a gun/ammo manufacturer, there's no money in a one-off lone gun nut mass shooting. No money = no incentive = no time to waste on it. It's just as simple as that. The only people making money off this kind of thing are gun and ammo manufacturers and dealers. And only because the media pumps up the threat that Obama will take the guns, so every gun and every bullet gets bought as quickly as possible by those people who believe that scare tactic marketing foolishness.

The government doesn't gain a damn thing by any of it.

I suppose that if you "follow the money" then it's the gun manufacturers that are sending in killers to boost gun sales. I just don't see it. There are people who disgrace themselves and their families in order to just be on TV for a few minutes. Why is it so hard to believe that a small pack of Internet *ssholes couldn't be testing their own ability to set some fires here and there. Just to bust balls (as they might see it, in their twisted way of seeing things).

Like I said, I grew up with a whole socioeconomic subculture that (if there's been an Internet back then) would've been absolutely down with doing this sort of thing. Seriously. What's the real moral difference between dosing the salad dressing at a golf country club with a lot of liquid L*S*D (where one of these guys was a busboy) and tweaking some loose screw until he hoses down a shopping mall?

Body count and press attention. That's the only difference. Back then, the options for mass mayhem were pretty limited. Not anymore.