Another Suicide Attack?

3 dead after shooting at Indiana grocery store

ELKHART, Ind. (AP) - A gunman walked into a northern Indiana grocery store and fatally shot two people Wednesday night before he was killed by police, authorities said.

Elkhart police received a call about an active shooter at Martin's Super Market about 10 p.m. Wednesday, Indiana State Police Sgt. Trent Smith said at a news conference early Thursday.

The gunman used a semi-automatic handgun to shoot and kill a woman, then walked to another aisle and shot and killed another woman, Smith said. One victim was an employee and appeared to be in her late teens or early 20s, and the other was a shopper who appeared to be in her 40s, he said. They were found about 12 aisles apart.

Two police officers, who were on a routine call nearby, were able to quickly respond to the scene, Smith said.

The shooter was pointing his gun at a third person when the officers found him in an aisle at the store, Smith said. Elkhart police then shot and killed the gunman, who Smith said lived in the area and was in his early 20s. A large knife was also found near the man's body.

Another random shooting involving a guy in his early 20s and people that he has no relationship with. Just walking to a local place where targets are available and letting go on them until the cops kill him (or he kills himself). Like several other incidents in recent years (Aurora CO movie theater, Sandy Hook, a variety of mall shoot-ups, and on and on) it's young guys from the local area attacking people that they don't know until they get shut down by either the cops or themselves as the cops close in.

I don't know why I'm feeling a strong link between these incidents, but I do know that if I were a terrorist, I'd be seeing this as a resilient insurgency concept that could weather pretty much any government (local or otherwise) response, while inflicting plenty of societal destabilization once the anonymity, randomness, and relative breadth of the operation finally became apparent to the news media (which would most effectively necessitate several years of increasingly common incidents before being purposely linked together as one nasty little terrorism plot).

And with none of the shooters even knowing each other, or realizing the connection themselves (being troubled young guys in desperate need of at least one moment of existential significance before submitting to their own inevitable suicide anyway), who could ever even begin to think of a way to fight back against it? Hell, these are just young guys on the Internet, slowly finding a twisted version of "destiny" after all, while being pretty damn easy to recognize, contact, and psychologically prepare for their one moment in the spotlight.

Damn, it's a good thing that I'm a writer and not the kind of monster that could really put something like this together. Still, it's almost as if I can feel something gathering here, as yet another young guy surrenders his life to his need to "be somebody" regardless of the cost.It's like I can sense that these are all connected in some way (that has nothing to do with gun control or imposing marshal law, since that's just stupid as all hell and not doable anyway).

reply to post by NorEaster

I don't know why I'm feeling a strong link between these incidents

You bring up a very good point! I have talked with my husband often about the 'synchronicity' of these events - especially the 'out-of-it' look that the last two surviving shooters had.
I found it curious that the gunmen now are either killed, or commit suicide. I was skeptic of the idea of some kind of drug/mind control at first, but looking at past history, and watching how much dis-info and confusion surrounds the events, along with so much secrecy....well, somethings just aren't adding up.
To believe that some would 'create' these events for the purpose of disarming a nation is preposterous; or is it?


S&F

reply to post by NorEaster

I like this comment I found at your source.

It's everyone's right to be against gun ownership, and it's everyone's right to not believe in God, but... when an armed crazy like this person shows up, the first things you're going to do are ...

1) Call for someone with a gun.
2) Pray he gets there in time.

nugget1
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I don't know why I'm feeling a strong link between these incidents

You bring up a very good point! I have talked with my husband often about the 'synchronicity' of these events - especially the 'out-of-it' look that the last two surviving shooters had.
I found it curious that the gunmen now are either killed, or commit suicide. I was skeptic of the idea of some kind of drug/mind control at first, but looking at past history, and watching how much dis-info and confusion surrounds the events, along with so much secrecy....well, somethings just aren't adding up.
To believe that some would 'create' these events for the purpose of disarming a nation is preposterous; or is it?


S&F

The guys involved have - so far - been noted as having been involved in online gaming or other Internet activities, which could definitely have opened them up to anonymous influence by someone that could very easily have steered them into lashing out if they were headed toward self-destruction anyway. I see guys on this board who'd be pretty good candidates for this sort of grooming, and I'm not trained in spotting them or grooming them for use as "suicide bombers" with guns. The linkage between these attacks (relative to demographics and basic operational structure) just seems too obvious and too specific to ignore on the basis of "that kind of thing couldn't happen here in the US" thinking. Nothing can happen here until it does, as the 9/11 Attacks proved to be true.

I personally believe these are mind control events. Either through trauma based mind control victims (MK Ultra/ Monarch) or through ELF mind affecting technologies. Remember the naval yard shooter had "my ELF weapon" carved into the stock of his weapon.

Trauma based mind control is very effective for creating "Manchurian candidate" type operatives and the victims almost never recall behaviors during a time in which an "altar" has control.

Is it my contention that all these events are such? No, of course not.

But it does seem odd that these events continue in a political climate wherein gun laws are a hot button issue.

Kallisti

Snarl
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I like this comment I found at your source.

It's everyone's right to be against gun ownership, and it's everyone's right to not believe in God, but... when an armed crazy like this person shows up, the first things you're going to do are ...

1) Call for someone with a gun.
2) Pray he gets there in time.

Yeah, there are plenty of "gun rights/control" comments. (yawn) I see something much bigger and more dangerous possibly happening here. I could be wrong, and I admit that. Still, it seems really clear that there's been a definite shift away from the every-now-and-then lone nut gunman mass attack. It could just be a "meme" that's caught on with young suicidal guys, and that might end up being even more dangerous. It's definitely becoming a popular means of personal expression for a very specific sub-type of American male.

CagliostroTheGreat

But it does seem odd that these events continue in a political climate wherein gun laws are a hot button issue.

Kallisti

Then again, the gun laws have become a hot button issue as a direct result of these incidents. I doubt that they'd be nearly as radioactive if not for the mass shootings putting the controversy back into the headlines each time they happen. That said, nothing is done or will be done about gun laws, and that much has been proven again and again, regardless of how many people are killed per incident. Think about it. If 20 six yr olds with at least a half dozen bullets in each of them can't make a dent in the gun laws, then what's the use in even bothering with them? As far as mind control....take a look around this board and tell me you can't find at least 5 guys who'd be fairly easy to groom for a hit like this. Are you kidding me? This place would be like fishing in a pond with dynamite for someone bent on creating a killer/suicide drone that's useful for one no-frills gun attack against regular suburban folks gathered in one spot. No training needed. Just inspiration and guidance. The hatred is already there and waiting to be properly directed.

One woman buys a bag, all woman want that bag.
Some NBA use some shoes, everyone want those shoes.
A guy start wearing saggy pants, a saggy pants trend is established.

Why would be different with something like this?

A psycho makes a mass murder, all psychos want to make mass murders too

To me its all a fashion of our time, sad but true

reply to post by NorEaster

I see something much bigger and more dangerous possibly happening here. I could be wrong, and I admit that. Still, it seems really clear that there's been a definite shift away from the every-now-and-then lone nut gunman mass attack. It could just be a "meme" that's caught on with young suicidal guys, and that might end up being even more dangerous. It's definitely becoming a popular means of personal expression for a very specific sub-type of American male.

I won't say you're wrong ... or even that I suspect you're wrong. You're one of the smart folks and I respect that.

It could be the MSM is more focused on these than they have been in the past. I've always suspected the Gun Control agenda was their baby anyway. If I had to guess, I'd say there's a lot of fault with decline in general and a loss of values (any development of values?) in our younger generations.

Kids these days spend all their time cooped up in the house sending text messages and playing video games. What happened to getting out and doing something interesting with friends? What happened to after-school jobs? Hell ... what happened to doing homework? The only kids I see outside these days are on skateboards ... and they appear to be looking for trouble with anyone who's not riding with them.

Indigent
One woman buys a bag, all woman want that bag.
Some NBA use some shoes, everyone want those shoes.
A guy start wearing saggy pants, a saggy pants trend is established.

Why would be different with something like this?

A psycho makes a mass murder, all psychos want to make mass murders too

To me its all a fashion of our time, sad but true

Well, except that mass murder and suicide are not anything like owning a handbag or sneakers. Also, those handbags, sneakers and baggy pants have already been heavily marketed with millions of dollars worth of exactly what I'm suggesting here - preparatory grooming of the trend-setters within each specific demographic grouping. It takes serious effort to make a fashion change happen. Serious effort and serious professional expertise. That kind of thing requires a multi-billion dollar industry crafting the message and another multi-billion dollar industry pushing that highly crafted and carefully polished message out 24/7 to a strategically prepared slice of the general population, and even then, only 10% of such fashion trending efforts actually pay off to any degree.

You underestimate what it takes to make something popular in this society. Most of the time, it's pure luck - but only after billions have been spent laying out the architecture that presents the fashion itself to the public sector it's meant to connect with.

reply to post by NorEaster

Well, except that mass murder and suicide are not anything like owning a handbag or sneakers.

Oh yes. Its different for you, but clearly you don't think like them don't you?

Its easier to believe they are forced to do this, because you never would, that to think this is normal behavior of some percentage of your species. what ever makes you sleep easier but if you see other places, people kills for things like shoes.

Indigent
One woman buys a bag, all woman want that bag.
Some NBA use some shoes, everyone want those shoes.
A guy start wearing saggy pants, a saggy pants trend is established.

Why would be different with something like this?

A psycho makes a mass murder, all psychos want to make mass murders too

To me its all a fashion of our time, sad but true

I tend to agree with you here. It's fashionable.

For young men, whom I'd imagine are depressed or have other emotional issues, they feel that this is "the way" out. The anger and hatred they feel, and a good portion of it if not all of it is aimed at themselves, they can use to lash out and finally see something come of it. Something bad. As bad as they feel. And they know, it will most likely end in their death. This, with the sideshow of the killings, is their end goal, IMHO. It's better to burn out, than to fade away.

All you people in TV land
I will wake up your empty shells
Peak-time viewing blown in a flash
As I burn into your memory cells

I also think that with girls, cutting has become a hugely fashionable thing to do.

And I think it's the same thing with suicide...for both genders of teens....and rather than having the appropriate skills to deal with bullies when bullying is involved (such as giving as good as you get, or just plain fighting back, as I was taught), our society says "turn a blind eye.....be passive". And they feel as though they have no other choice.

Plus, it's the fashionable thing to do.

Snarl
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I see something much bigger and more dangerous possibly happening here. I could be wrong, and I admit that. Still, it seems really clear that there's been a definite shift away from the every-now-and-then lone nut gunman mass attack. It could just be a "meme" that's caught on with young suicidal guys, and that might end up being even more dangerous. It's definitely becoming a popular means of personal expression for a very specific sub-type of American male.

I won't say you're wrong ... or even that I suspect you're wrong. You're one of the smart folks and I respect that.

I appreciate that. Thanks.

It could be the MSM is more focused on these than they have been in the past. I've always suspected the Gun Control agenda was their baby anyway.

I honestly have no idea what the MSM sees as their baby - other than stoking fires between opposing sides to whatever conflict is selling air time and web clicks at the moment. These media outlets are owned by large corporations, and some of those corporations own companies that benefit from the gun buying hysteria that always happens when the gun control debate gets on the front page again. It's all business and about making money, and most large companies are subsidiaries of the largest corporations who also own media outlets. If you stock up on weapons, somebody's making a killing off you. Just sayin'.

If I had to guess, I'd say there's a lot of fault with decline in general and a loss of values (any development of values?) in our younger generations.

Kids these days spend all their time cooped up in the house sending text messages and playing video games. What happened to getting out and doing something interesting with friends? What happened to after-school jobs? Hell ... what happened to doing homework? The only kids I see outside these days are on skateboards ... and they appear to be looking for trouble with anyone who's not riding with them.

I'm 57 yrs old, and we were just as terrible as any of these kids. The difference today is that a professional psy-ops groomer can be playing an online video game for months with a 15 yr old boy now days, and no one would ever know the truth about what's being developed as the kid logs on for yet another stretch of hanging out with his pals online in WoW or whatever game he's into. There's chat and IM in those gaming structures, and a kid can get pretty close to a completely anonymous person in short order - especially if he's not clicking with the kids at his school or his own family members.

That opens the kid up to years of being passed around from one psy-ops professional to the next, and with a dozens of such kids in the "pipeline" a team is bound to come up with at least one that can be used for that ultimate blaze of glory moment. Especially if the gaming concept itself is based on killing random people anyway. Hell, profiling a susceptible candidate would be pretty easy with the online game itself shortlisting the herd for you.

I don't know. Maybe I'm seeing something that no one's seen yet in all of this? Maybe I'm the type of sick sonofabitch that we should all be afraid of?

Indigent
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Well, except that mass murder and suicide are not anything like owning a handbag or sneakers.

Oh yes. Its different for you, but clearly you don't think like them don't you?

Its easier to believe they are forced to do this, because you never would, that to think this is normal behavior of some percentage of your species. what ever makes you sleep easier but if you see other places, people kills for things like shoes.

Mass killing isn't normal behavior for anyone. It takes covering quite a distance before you even get into the area code where mass killing is even accepted as a rage response. A psy-ops pro could help a kid make that journey, and that's all I'm suggesting here.

NorEaster
Mass killing isn't normal behavior for anyone. It takes covering quite a distance before you even get into the area code where mass killing is even accepted as a rage response. A psy-ops pro could help a kid make that journey, and that's all I'm suggesting here.

I do have to agree, that I think there is a high possibility and probability of *some* of this being gov't influenced. The Arvada shooting, the Navy Yard shooting, etc....

I believe the dots you have here, and I believe they are worth connecting...is the involvement with the military and or a DARPA related project...and the psychiatric care...not just involving SSRI's, but any form of psychotherapy coupled with just about any form of medication....

The mind is a fragile and malleable thing.

reply to post by NorEaster


So gang rapes in India trend, or knock em out game trend, not a fashion but a psy-ops?

there is nothing normal sir, normal is what your environment is, if you was raised in different conditions those conditions would be your normal. someone normal is not another people normal.

reply to post by NorEaster

Has it been determined that he did not know his victims? I ask because I was not able to read the article.

This is an act of terrorism as is every other multiple victim public shooting.


reply to post by CagliostroTheGreat

While I believe that the US government still uses MK Ultra, mind control doesnt have to be overt.

Think about it.

The media is fully capable of brain washing people. As Edward Bernays said, peacetime propaganda can be just as effective as wartime propaganda.

Its the exact same brainwashing used with marketing and consumerism.

Simply re-air the same story hundreds if not thousands of times via television, print and the internet. Other mentally susceptible people will commit copy cat crimes.

What I wonder is if this is a deliberate tactic in order to induce these crimes for a specific purpose, say anti-gun legislation, bigger police state etc.

NorEaster

I don't know why I'm feeling a strong link between these incidents,

Where they all white guys?



Raised in an emasculated environment with
an overwhelming absence of a single positive male figure
either in their lives,
or anywhere in the media and entertainment they consume?

Mike Grouchy

reply to post by gladtobehere


What I am referencing is the use of trauma based mind control methodology for the sole purpose of creating a "one time use" Patsy.

TBMC can be used to program multiple personalities or "altars" that perform specific tasks one can be a "beta" model (often used as sex slaves or celebrities, like Miley Cyrus) or one can be a "Delta" model (often used for assassination missions, like Oswald.) If TBMC is being used in these case they are almost certainly Delta models.

All this, of course, is conjecture.

Kallisti

Interesting take on these horrible events. I'm not sure that I agree on causation but your context kind of helped solidify something for me and I think it may have a lot more to do with personality archetypes and limited growth potential combined with the gaming culture. I'm a gamer myself and well familiar with the verbal brutality that you literally can't escape unless you refuse to read/listen to chat, something I don't think young males are mature enough to do... they want to fight back, be men. For psychologically vulnerable young men to enter a world that they feel they should be able to be all powerful, be their ego and then get continually slapped down even if they aren't a 'terribad' player... I can see it being enough to make a young dude snap even to the extremes that we've seen... all without subliminal catalysts.