Out of Sight, Out of Mind - Drone Deaths Since 2004

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posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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A good friend of mine who was born in Pakistan has recently brought a website to my attention, this website shows a presentation with a chilling reality about Drone Wars in Pakistan.

The Drone Wars began somewhere between 2003 - 2004 under the Reign of Overlord Bush... or what ever title you guys across the pond give your leaders now... It is still on going despite mass protests in the US and Pakistan, too many innocent have died for a system that is sold as being more accurate and safer than human input.

Anyway, the presentation is stuffed full of information, it tells you where the attacks took place, the types of casualties and the dates. I will point out that these are approximate figures because the US Army refuse to release any official figures, either because they don't know or because they don't want us to know.

Another thing I would like to point out before I show you this site, is the identification of 'alleged combatants'.


All reporting of government accounts of “militant” deaths should include acknowledgment that the US government counts all adult males killed by strikes as “militants,” absent exonerating evidence. Media accounts relying on anonymous government sources should also highlight the fact of their single-source information and of the past record of false government reports.

Source

Anyway, I have delayed this enough. I won't go into what's in the presentation, I will let it speak for itself. You do not need sound for this, just a few minutes of your time.

Out of Sight, Out of Mind.


Metta ~

edit on 12-1-2014 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:21 AM
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Ya know, I can understand why many foreigners hate America. I mean the American people aren't even informed enough to know what their government is doing, although partly this is the government's fault for not being transparent and honest, but blame also rests on us. Especially considering we should have never allowed things to get this bad with our government. So if there are highly illegal or immoral actions going on overseas, is it wrong for people to think that Americans are supporting such actions? Logic states that if Americans didn't support such actions, then they would not occur.



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


What can we "the people" do?? Have you read "Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill?

We can't protest what we are unaware of - we become aware, via REAL journalism, and we make a fuss, pitch a hissy-fit....

but: WHAT are we supposed to do except "complain"? ETA: And VOTE?

I've written to my congressmen, I've decried this slaughtering as awful, as much as my lowly station allows.
Nothing changes.

WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO???!!!!

edit on 1/12/14 by wildtimes because: add link



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


There is a big enough backlash from it by the public, lots of regular demonstrations and petitions (I know these sound weak but the non-violent choices are always limited).

However there are too many people who believe the white-washed version of events and too many people who believe it's for the greater good. Which is where people step in to try and show people otherwise, like the people who put their time and effort into this website.

We can only hope that a better rhetoric will come from peoples actions and alternative information (not government sourced), perhaps the re-evaluation of the Drone program will be another election lie we can get fed, that will be when we know something may change in about 10 years time!



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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wildtimes
reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


What can we "the people" do?? Have you read "Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill?

We can't protest what we are unaware of - we become aware, via REAL journalism, and we make a fuss, pitch a hissy-fit....

but: WHAT are we supposed to do except "complain"? ETA: And VOTE?

I've written to my congressmen, I've decried this slaughtering as awful, as much as my lowly station allows.
Nothing changes.

WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO???!!!!

edit on 1/12/14 by wildtimes because: add link

Just keep speaking your mind. It is much appreciated!


soulwaxer



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by soulwaxer
 



It is much appreciated!

By whom???

It doesn't seem to be doing much. Can you give us some insight about what effect it's having on this??

(Are you a Congressman?)



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I doubt even the families in Pakistan know that we are trying to stop these unnecessary assassinations of civilians.

It's actions like this that cause people to WANT to join the militants who are providing us with a purpose for war. If we stopped murdering their children, then perhaps the fathers will stop picking up guns.



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 



I doubt even the families in Pakistan know that we are trying to stop these unnecessary assassinations of civilians.

So, it helps for us to continue posting here. Some of them may very well be here, and spread the word.

I was in a dialogue with a person from India for quite a while, and explained that many Americans - and others - are, in fact, protesting.....this Indian person blames the drone program for the increase in terrorists. Actually, that notion has been around for a while. But, yes, perhaps I'm forgetting that just because I've absorbed something DOESN'T mean that everyone else has.

(As for Pakistanis in general, though - I'm not sure whether even Malala is allowed to 'read the news' like we are!)


It's actions like this that cause people to WANT to join the militants who are providing us with a purpose for war. If we stopped murdering their children, then perhaps the fathers will stop picking up guns.


Precisely.


Have you read Scahill's book? (Obviously you already are 'on board' with protesting it - but, when one discovers things about Rumsfeld and Cheney and Bush&Co... Ugh.)

EVERY TIME I read about another drone strike on a "wedding party convoy", or an innocent rooftop patio party being ripped to shreds, it nauseates me.
edit on 1/12/14 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 



If we stopped murdering their children, then perhaps the fathers will stop picking up guns.

Another thought just occurred to me.

Remember how USA was all "We will never forget" after 9/11??? That's the war-mongers.

Same thing with the Islamists......and they've been at it for 1500 years longer than we have!!! In more recent history, they had issues with 'being shamed' by the Arabs, and blame "the West" for ALL of it.....

As I recall from another good read:
The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Robert Wright. (You can read a scan of it free online; this is just the wiki entry.)

Gives some excellent facts about Bin Laden and that bunch.....

This is a very complicated problem. World-threatening.



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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wildtimes

So, it helps for us to continue posting here. Some of them may very well be here, and spread the word.

I was in a dialogue with a person from India for quite a while, and explained that many Americans - and others - are, in fact, protesting.....this Indian person blames the drone program for the increase in terrorists. Actually, that notion has been around for a while. But, yes, perhaps I'm forgetting that just because I've absorbed something DOESN'T mean that everyone else has.

(As for Pakistanis in general, though - I'm not sure whether even Malala is allowed to 'read the news' like we are!)


This is true, I remember when Israel wanted to strike Iran (as per usual) and they start that 'We Love You' campaign or what ever it was called. I thought that was amazing and really showed that it was nothing but the rich monopolies interest and not the protection of it's people.



Have you read Scahill's book? (Obviously you already are 'on board' with protesting it - but, when one discovers things about Rumsfeld and Cheney and Bush&Co... Ugh.)


Sounds like I need to! Any in-particular?



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 


Dirty Wars by Jeremy Scahill
I also bought his previous book "Blackwater" - but haven't yet read it. I can only stand so much REAL doom and gloom in a year.



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I agree with your feelings - you do all you can and it doesn't make a difference (like talking to a wall with government). That's because we have allowed them to become untouchable through complicity (if it doesn't affect us directly we don't say anything - trucker run for example; over time all people are infiltrated one group by one group until we are where we are now). When people see a group cower away in shame after trying to speak up it reinforces the lack of power we have.

What needs to happen is people need to stand united regardless of their differences. Instead we see small populations standing up for this or that while others judge them for their cause. Anyone who exercises their rights should be supported but they aren't because we are splintered. The government is not stupid. They are well aware of the mind set of the American people at any given time. They are always one step ahead of us and we have made this easy for them.

When I hear of persistent people or those who might cause a mass uprising due to getting too close to something - being labeled paranoid or being silenced I never doubt the government may not play a role in this. Maybe so/maybe not. If I have power over 10 people in a clam and have 2 advisers who like the association due to the perks - and one of those 10 says something that may threaten my power how easy is it to get one advisor to sabotage the rabble rouser?

It is much more difficult but not impossible to still see government put back into the position of serving the people rather than us fearing them. It takes being united though. The idea is to not rise up against this cause or that - but to do it as one on the out of control nature of the establishment. that isn't to say people should give up on causes - it's just that there is power in numbers so a united people will be the clincher. But...it has to be a cause that reduces their reach - because anything less they know to give in to quiet it down. Sad how unlikely it is to see the American people all agree isn't it? But one day they will. It's just a matter of "what will it take".



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Blackwater are a nasty piece of work!

But yes, I shall remember this and I will have a look through it when I get a chance. I got tons of books for Christmas to work through



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Dianec
 



But one day they will. It's just a matter of "what will it take".

Thanks for the reply. Agreed.

It seems that "what it takes" moves at a snail's pace....or even a disabled one's!......

Sometimes it's astounding to me to see how little, how truly little the human race has progressed.

as iRoyalty said earlier: "In 10 years". ......
Not much, I'm guessing, will change in another 10 years.
And it's been ongoing for centuries already.

Makes me sad.
But! Yes, I'll keep squawking!




posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Well, I'm not sure which side of the Atlantic you are on but elections are coming up in the UK next year! I know we are not the main instigators but we still use them.

If we can convince our government to stop using and abusing in time for the election, then perhaps it will inspire those further west



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 


I'm in the infamous USA. But I have certainly been making a fuss.....as have millions of other 'Americans'.....and I am 'pissed'
(in the American sense of TICKED OFF, REALLY IRRITATED, etc.)

Anyway:
the global situation has reached critical mass - which I attribute to 'awareness' (or, if you like "Denial of Ignorance") on a massive scale. People are ANGRY.

And governments, in my optimistic opinion, are scared.

As WELL they should be!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Thanks for clarifying, we do use 'pissed' to mean: out on the lash, spannered, trollied... Am I making any sense? hahaha

Well I assume this is why they cover up the facts, if people knew the truth I doubt everyone would stay ignorant for long.





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