What makes magic difficult to study

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posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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SInce the 1960's there have been thousands of books written on laws of attractions , magic and related stuff. Many teachers have come forward. In addition , when Israel Regardie pubished secret doctrines and rituals of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, you would have thought that there would be a upsurge of new magical lodges and successful magicians. However this did not happen.

What happened was a revived interest in the occult but that interest did not produce magicians of great standing. The original lineage of the Golden Dawn and related lodges was preserved but nothing really notable ensued. Nowadays we still have many magical lodges and students but they are not so potent in my view.

I believe that the problem is that the western magical system (which originates to a certain degree from the Rosicrucians) is full of dogma. There is nothing wrong with dogma as it is esential for building a framework . However, we are talking of the dogma of the qabalistic Tree of Life combined with a fully documented and extensive array of symbols and entities - thousands of them. Enough to make a first class honours graduate in Physics do a U-turn.

The error people make is to approach the subject as if it was a university course. Unfortunately it does not work that way. Rituals and symbols will not do anything for you unless you have already undergone an initiation . Even an initiation is not sufficient unless you have something of yourself to bring.

It was Aleister Crowley who brought practicality into magic and some of his comments were very useful. At this stage I would urge those who think Crowley was evil to reconsider their views and find out about him before making comments. It saddens me that a man who has never killed anyone or even harmed people should be treated as more evil than serial killers and murderers. He was just eccentric.

Now a few points about the practicality of magic.

1)Crowley , who was capable or summoning angels and demons, was also well aware how the human mind intergrates with the environment. He would therefore advocate using magic as a last resort. If , for example, you needed to get something done then your first step should be to use the basic means first (eg write a letter; have a meeting, make a phone call,etc). You may find that this achieves the intended objective. He knew of course that this in itself was a very basic application of magic. I have not read much of Crowley but I certainly remember this advice which I have found very important.

2)Every magician should bring a bit of himself to the art. Crowley had natural abilities to so some simple magical feats such as making someone trip and this had nothing to do with the teachings. Similarly, we each have certain abilities . We are to develop them and gain greater confidence . The magical teachings (eg Qabalah) will remain in the background and give us the perspective but our development will be very individual. There are horses for courses. Students make the misake of assuming that there is only one way to learn.

3)I once met an Irishman who was teaching Qabalah. He had a very profound understanding of it yet he operated though his irish mentality and bringing in some of his own pagan style to it. It worked very well for him. I believe that he even brought a little bit of witchcraft into it too. Yet it was all done against a background of the Tree of Life. He taught in a practical way. It was not different from the way Crowley taught . It is like filling several draws with ideas but each idea put into the draw that you think it relates to. Over the years you have build an understanding of various principles; particularly so if each draw represented a sephiroth on the Tree.

4)One more advice ; this time from myself. Observe other magicians but not the ones wearing the robes. Observe successful businessmen. I have been lucky to work in Finance and I can readily watch money in the making. Business people are far from being magicians but there is an attitude there that is worth cultivating. I am not talking about the greedy "go and get it at all cost" attitude. I mean the cultivation of expectation.








edit on 9-1-2014 by crowdedskies because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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It's only difficult if you make it difficult. Crowley's thoughts on theory and practice are a good read to get you into the mindset with dealing with this sort of thing and to give you a nudge in understanding.

In my experiences I've found that he is a little outdated unless you accept the whole Jewish mysticism approach compared to other sources that are out there. I suggest reading into chaos magic for a more fresh take on some theory but I wouldn't stop there. Make your own choices into what jives with you as that's what really matters IMO.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 08:24 PM
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Inarismessenger
It's only difficult if you make it difficult. Crowley's thoughts on theory and practice are a good read to get you into the mindset with dealing with this sort of thing and to give you a nudge in understanding.

In my experiences I've found that he is a little outdated unless you accept the whole Jewish mysticism approach compared to other sources that are out there. I suggest reading into chaos magic for a more fresh take on some theory but I wouldn't stop there. Make your own choices into what jives with you as that's what really matters IMO.


I agree that we sometimes make it difficult and yes there are other paths. For me the Jewish Mysticism thing works. I am sure you have found what suits you .Thanks.
edit on 9-1-2014 by crowdedskies because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 08:56 PM
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It might be because there is this one magician who is the most powerful and doesn't want to share because of the risk of others becoming more powerful than him or using it for evil and then he'd be responsible. Once a magician reveals him/herself to another, that becomes a responsibility but also a liability which cannot be undone so to choose someone to teach would only happen if that person would appear to make the sacrifices necessary and not go public and reveal others. The sacrifice is like becoming a monk, either have the wife and child or become a powerful wizard or go mad of insanity. Then that person might not even be from this planet further complicating the chance of you ever meeting such a person and able to look and learn how it's done.
edit on 9-1-2014 by spiritspeak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 09:30 PM
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Ah, but here is the real rub, the greatest illusionists of our time, those who can seem to do things and take us by surprise are those politicians. Consider this, how many laws catch us off guard, when they come to pass, and people looking fully shocked at how each is applied?

The reality is that those who are capable, tend to be more in the shadows, rather than out in the light, partially is for their protection, and the other is that there is still a bias/fear against such, around the world. In some places, practicing such is more likely to get you killed, if not ostracized by a community than not. Would you risk your life or your well being to demonstrate such?



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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It's because magic doesn't work, and people eventually get tired of the disappointment.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by crowdedskies
 

I think the magicians( PR) are still plugging away behind the scenes, but what is it that makes a great mage? Its not Crowley's "bad boy" sex magic media coverage. All that did was draw a lot of lustful and selfish people to try to learn magic.

Can you tell me what is it that draws people to magic, is it the will to power?
What are the expectations of increase/gain of what exactly?
Can magic be simply doing work that needs to be done, doing it without expectations?
There is no Dogma in that.

I am not being difficult( or "mage- bashing") and am genuinely interested in your answers.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 10:13 PM
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Hey Crowded... interesting thread.

s n f



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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You threw a lot out there but I think Law of Attraction is easier to study. I believe in much of that...and I find that when I start doing those things, and maybe it is just me looking at things differently and actually working harder, but...in the end, does that matter? Because the results are that when I visualize, meditate, read positive books, pray, make vision boards, wake up and consciously try to be more grateful and on and on...life does improve for me...a lot. But the other stuff, like doing spells or real magic...where would you even start...there is soooo much crap out there. The problem with it is not knowing where to start. But isn't that the problem with everything? I find that when I can't find out where to start, I end up just jumping in.. usually in the middle, lol and I learn my way from there.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by crowdedskies
 


I think the reason "Magic" is difficult to study is because it has been boiled down into one thing..."Magic".
It is sort of like trying to say the meaning of life is one thing. That would be inaccurate in my opinion.

Is 'magic' the ability to create illusions or manipulate the elements or both? What 'magic' is to me is more, Focus, strength of will and a complete belief in one’s ability of the first two. Without these factors a person is just an ordinary person. With these factors a person is still just an ordinary person who knows how to drive "the car" and utilise more of the functions metaphorically speaking of course.

Anyone who is teaching 'magic' will always have more ability then the students because the student is likely to believe they need the knowledge to be better at their craft. Simply not true in my experience but that is the beauty of life, we each get to experience reality subjective and then decide for ourselves.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by TheDualityExperience
 


Goal = (focus)will+intent

that is magick



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 11:00 PM
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crowdedskies
you would have thought that there would be a upsurge of new magical lodges and successful magicians. However this did not happen.

What happened was a revived interest in the occult but that interest did not produce magicians of great standing. The original lineage of the Golden Dawn and related lodges was preserved but nothing really notable ensued. Nowadays we still have many magical lodges and students but they are not so potent in my view.


The reasoning for this is simple.... The culprit is the very same problem that brought down the the famous Lodges of Crowley's era - human ego. The in-fighting within and between groups, usually over legitimacy or historical lineage, has turned off many aspiring and potential students. Resources within groups are directed at establishing some superiority in their leaders' ideology and not on the development of their students' progress. This is exactly what happened with the original splintering of the Golden Dawn, leading to Alpha et Omega, Stella Matutina, etc...all the way down the line. The same in-fighting can be seen in today's groups. Just google 'Pat Zalewski' and 'David Griffin.'

Ironically, when studying magic...one of the biggest dangers that students are warned about is in regards to the bloating of the ego. Once you begin to learn real secrets of the universe and divine wisdom, it is only natural for it to affect your perception of yourself and your place in the world. Any GOOD teacher will insist on regular counseling in order for the student to remain grounded in reality. Meglomania is just one of the issues which brought Crowley low (magically speaking), but it is this same "trap" that has plagued the leaders of its many schools and their offshoots since antiquity.

Consequently, if you understand the true nature of the wisdom and what the power of that magic entails, it fully explains why you never hear of the 'extraordinary' student in any Lodge. The universe has it's own checks and balances, especially in regards to divine knowledge. Humility and discernment are but two of several necessary ingredients.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Lets break the idea of magick down to something simpler and more direct and approachable.

Imagination, creative ability, ideas.

Someone has an idea, they then communicate this idea to something else through a business plan which they spend countless hours of time developing through intense periods of focus with the intent of manifesting this business or idea into the world physically.

Now lets say for instance this idea comes by way of computer, the technology used in this idea manifest a new series of potentials for the world to experience and now these potentials then become another set of ideas.

Anyway, if you dont believe in magick and you want to but just cant see it, then look no further then your imagination because through it we literally have gained the ability to manipulate matter in our so called physical world.

The implications of this are deep and rarely understood.



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


A good explanation for the layman who has never studied esoteric philosophy... Like you said, very approachable and easy to relate to. OQ, I guess I didn't realize that you have an interest in this subject matter....


In my case, I grew up with magick so I have always known it....which makes it hard for me to really understand the perspective of those individuals who don't know or understand magick and it's potential. I can make a pretty good educated guess at their cynicism or confusion, but I can't really KNOW it.
edit on 9-1-2014 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2014 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Ive been initiated into occult. Dragon magick, crowley, sacred geometry, math, astrology and other things.

Ive gone wayyy past the rabbit hole but its hard to describe because most or almost all people are afraid of the truth.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 12:01 AM
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onequestion
reply to post by TheDualityExperience
 


Goal = (focus)will+intent

that is magick


That is will and intent. Magick as you like to spell it is only a construct, an observable effect of the 'goal'. If someone sees it as the effect and not the cause they will likely be a victim of someone elses will and not their own.
I am the most powerful person i know. Not because i can bend others will but because mine is not bent by others. No one elses 'magic' works on me.
It really is just a fancy word for the art of mental alchemy.
edit on 10-1-2014 by TheDualityExperience because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-1-2014 by TheDualityExperience because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 02:22 AM
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amazing
You threw a lot out there but I think Law of Attraction is easier to study. I believe in much of that...and I find that when I start doing those things, and maybe it is just me looking at things differently and actually working harder, but...in the end, does that matter? Because the results are that when I visualize, meditate, read positive books, pray, make vision boards, wake up and consciously try to be more grateful and on and on...life does improve for me...a lot. But the other stuff, like doing spells or real magic...where would you even start...there is soooo much crap out there. The problem with it is not knowing where to start. But isn't that the problem with everything? I find that when I can't find out where to start, I end up just jumping in.. usually in the middle, lol and I learn my way from there.


Precisely.That is the point that I was making. In the OP I suggested you bring a bit of yourself and what works for you against the background of a magical system. Then you fill your chest of draws with ideas and concepts.

The thread was not about where are the good magicians. Carry on as you are doing but do it against a framework. If you are into wicca instead of the law of attraction, then use wicca as your entry into the system. Thanks for your comments



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:07 AM
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onequestion
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Lets break the idea of magick down to something simpler and more direct and approachable.

Imagination, creative ability, ideas.

Someone has an idea, they then communicate this idea to something else through a business plan which they spend countless hours of time developing through intense periods of focus with the intent of manifesting this business or idea into the world physically.

Now lets say for instance this idea comes by way of computer, the technology used in this idea manifest a new series of potentials for the world to experience and now these potentials then become another set of ideas.

Anyway, if you dont believe in magick and you want to but just cant see it, then look no further then your imagination because through it we literally have gained the ability to manipulate matter in our so called physical world.

The implications of this are deep and rarely understood.


Very good post. It is not just that it feels right to use Imagination, creative ability and ideas. These qualities and experiences sit right at the bottom part of the Tree of Life. The trinity of the three Sephira : Netzah, Yesod and Hod respectively. Not wanting to go technical on qabalah but I need to add one more quality.

Qabalistic maginal training requires the activation of the first Sphere (Matkuth). This is the ability to be dicerning or discriminating. Hence, all those skeptics on ATS may have already achieved a degree on success in that sphere but for the wrong reason.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by crowdedskies
 


Because Hogwarts acceptance letters are hard to come by.

Sorry couldn't resist.
edit on 10-1-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by crowdedskies
 


I just want to reiterate the point I am making. This thread is not about why good magicians remain in the shadows.It is about the obstacles faced by the aspiring magicians who are at an early stage of development.

The biggest error is to assume that they have to drop their naturally strong ability to create with their will and imagination and adopt a different system. It is not so.

What I am advocating is to have a framework so that you can chart your progress and your position in the greater scheme of things.





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