'Stuck in our own experiment': Leader of trapped team insists polar ice is melting

reply to post by Kali74


It should be common knowledge. CO2 is the most common answer I get. I just find it amusing that both sides will argue GW, when they do not this important fact.

I never said CO2 and CH4 are not responsible for GW, I more worried about the increasing levels of methane more so than CO2 since it traps heat so well.

I just feel strongly that there are much bigger fouls we are committing as a species that seem to never get mentioned.

Fixing this problem is easy. It will save us money. it's simple, do you really need to buy something? do you need to take that cruise? Do you really need to remodel your home? Can't you plan your meals so you don't wind up impulse buying when you go to the store every day? Is that new car really necessary, the savings you gain from four miles per gallon better mileage is dwarfed by the cost of the car. Why drive so much in the first place. Why are jobs so far from the homes? Why not support a small grocery store you can walk to? Do you need to buy something just to say you have it? What is wrong with buying locally produced food from a small farmer?

Keeping up with the Jones has gone crazy, material things do not make you look better, that is a lie started by consumerism.

jrod
reply to post by Kali74

 

It should be common knowledge. CO2 is the most common answer I get. I just find it amusing that both sides will argue GW, when they do not this important fact.

I never said CO2 and CH4 are not responsible for GW, I more worried about the increasing levels of methane more so than CO2 since it traps heat so well.

I just feel strongly that there are much bigger fouls we are committing as a species that seem to never get mentioned.

edit on 2-1-2014 by jrod because: (no reason given)

It is common knowledge. There a ton of fouls being committed by our species, this is the biggest one. We don't have a solution at the moment and this debate helps keep one from being found. The time to just halt GHG emissions has passed, now we need a different solution or we won't survive. The planet will be fine but we won't.

buster2010

LaElvis
reply to post by wantsome

 

And YOU want to blame MAN and whatever he did I'm sure!!! OK this is the only thing that is relevant in this thread!!!

THE EARTH HAS NEARLY FROZEN AND WARMED UP TIME AFTER TIME OVER THE CENTURIES.....AAANNNNNNNDDDD
WWWWAAAAIIIIIITTTTT FFFFFFFOOOOORRRRRRR IIIIIITTTT!!


MAN WASN'T THERE!!!!

You do know man was around during the last ice age don't you? The height of the last one was around 20K years ago and mankind was present.

you do know that the population of the earth has increased drastically since then.... and that the way we live is drastically different... and the amount of food we need to feed all of us is also drastically different.... you can't compare a time when there were only thousands of people on the earth living in huts to a time when there are billions of people on the earth who rely on their iphones. if the climate changes in all parts of the earth (places that are normally cold get warm and places that are normally warm get cold) over a short period of time such as in about 50 years, we won't have the means or ability to change our food production and water collection.

reply to post by Kali74


I think the pollution of our waters and the shrinking fresh water sources is the biggest threat to humanity.

I think we have become too dependent on burning fossil fuels. Nothing short of a mass human die off will change that. We will continue to pump CO2 in the air and continue to destroy the natural CO2 sinks.

So now Al Gore is a lying thieving low life and scientists are idiots? He's about the only politician who has gone out on a limb to risk everything because he felt strongly about something that matters to future generations (ones we can't yet imagine so not thinking short term).

It's also a bit of a jump to call all scientists whose studies have confirmed global warming idiots who were wrong because a ship is stuck in ice. Did you actually think there would be no ice and because there is global warming isn't happening? Way to go FOX news for pulling people to this side. Do those who are saying that actually know the amount of work that goes into research? The checks and balances? The scrutiny?

Why because one side is right does the other have to be wrong? They don't. It's inconclusive yet there is something going on (aka climate change). More time and more research are needed - by scientists not employed by government agencies preferably.

Dianec
So now Al Gore is a lying thieving low life and scientists are idiots?

So now ? Ha ha ! No! It has Always been that way. God to think it was seals we used to club, duh.

How do the global climate change prediction models deal with the volcano issue? How do they predict when the eruptions will occur and how much pollution will be pumped into the skies?
I ask because I honestly don't know. I heard a fellow who was studying Pinatubo in '91 claim the pollution from that eruption equaled 200 years of intense industrial pollution. At the time I spoke with him (sometime in 2000) he said that none of the models he had studied even attempted to take volcanic eruptions into consideration. Further, he maintained that he had attempted on several occasions to contact many of the researchers to see if they were interested in his data. Lots of folks were interested---if he was offering funding. When they found that it was only data he had to offer, they lost interest.
Perhaps the models have improved since that time.
I've studied enough history, read lots of historical diaries that included weather information, (Shaker journals are great for this type of info.) so I know that weather patterns change and sometimes we can understand those weather/climate changes, like the "Little Ice Age" that enveloped at least the northern hemisphere for several centuries. Even today there are scientists looking to understand that period of time. Each new round of studies bring forth new ideas while some old ideas get discarded. That's the way science works.
But that's not what the faithful in the Sky Is Falling cult are practicing. They have changed from the lab coats of scientists to the robes of the high priests and prophets when they began looking into the modern form of the crystal ball---the computer model---and declared the matter closed. I fully expect that five or six centuries from now, the same debates about causes/effects will still rage.

jrod

stumason

jrod
......................

I never said that CO2 isn't responsible for warming. There are far bigger things that we are doing that are a more imminent threat to humanity. While we are pumping tons and tons of CO2 in the air we are also destroying forests and poisoning our waters which kills algae, the natural sinks of CO2.

The reality is we as a species are destroying our once pristine planet. Those of who care do not have the wealth and power to do anything about it. Those with the wealth and power are the ones doing the biggest damage all in the name of making more money.

Most people(at least Americans) are ignorant to anything important in the world. You would be surprised at how many think it gets cold in the winter because the Earth is further away from the sun in the winter. The education system here is horrible. I would be willing to bet that at least 75% of college graduates in the US do not know the Earth once a CO2 rich atmosphere.

Actually you're wrong. OUr planet was never pristine. The romans cut down whole swaths of forest and built enormous burn piles to clear away garbage. YOu wouldn't believe what else they did. The indians commonly burned forests for various reasons. In the 1500-1800 period of time there was vast deforestation in the Americas. Some 20,000 years ago large areas of north america were covered in ice sheets. No awesome bountiful forests, just lots of ice! Some 75,000 years ago there was a vast die off of humans which some blame on a super volcano eruption. I wonder how many beautiful trees were destroyed in the eruption? And it's commonly known forest fires were extremely common across north america before we started to control them to build more residential neighborhoods. We also know of infestations of disease in forests which resulted from too many old growth.

In fact, forestry science today is greatly advanced from its younger self. These days, we actually make forests healthier by smartly cutting trees. We can serve the environment AND industry without compromising either. It's a proven fact now being shown in many places in the world that smart forestry work makes the planet a better place. So again, the planet was never pristine and in many cases modern technology and knowledge actually makes the planet healthier.

You may not believe it, but nature is dumb and blind oftentimes. Science really does allow us to make earth better than it has ever been before. And we can do all this while also having a thriving industry. These two things do not have to be against each other. They can be mutually beneficial through science.

And you know there's an obesity epidemic. Know why? Because evolution thought it was "smart" to make us eat in times of plenty to survive the winter and periodic famines. Nowadays because of technology and science we're able to survive comfortably in winter and do not experience famines to the extent we did in the past. As a result, people eat more than they need to. In this case, you can see how nature is "dumb and blind." Only through science can we correct this. So, again, nature is fallible and not trustworthy. Never blindly put your faith in it.

Best thing to put our faith in is science as an institution.

reply to post by jrod


Water vapour

Smart arse...

Damn, beaten too it I see...Serves me right for having a few days off ATS...

Dianec
More time and more research are needed - by scientists not employed by government agencies preferably.

Agreed. Like the IPCC. The one's who finance the AGW agenda.

If everyone stopped trying to blame somebody else, and just focus on cleaner energy, we might move forward instead of sideways and backwards. As crazy as it sounds, I think the AGW folks were employed by big oil to keep everyone fighting on the blame and keep everyone from looking for an alternative to fossil fuels.

Oh, and Al Gore is a tool.

The government supports business, which is why results from the IPCC are underestimated:

"How the IPCC Underestimated Climate Change"

www.scientificamerican.com...

Results are vetted by government and watered down in order not to alarm people:

"Climate Risks Have Been Underestimated for the Last 20 Years"

www.alternet.org...

That's because if people are alarmed, then they will borrow and spend less, which means lower sales for businesses and lower tax revenues for governments.

Finally,

"Bombshell: Koch-Funded Study Finds ‘Global Warming Is Real’, ‘On The High End’ And ‘Essentially All’ Due To Carbon Pollution"

thinkprogress.org... -carbon-pollution/