Sick People and the Innocent Insurance Companies they Defraud

jrod

badgerprints
Of course,
Another thread about anything mildly relevant, set up to look like an interesting topic.

But it's just another set up for a jab at Christians.

I support the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is not a stab at Christianity. It is a stab at the hypocrisy of people who are willing to let others die because they belong to a lower social-economic class.

Please do not try to sabotage my thread with your minimal post that adds nothing of intellectual substance.

jrod
People like this make my blood boil. What amazes me is this guy and those laughing with him probably all attend Christian church services every Sunday.

So where is the intellectual substance in that?

If you meant that these guy's are hypocrites, why not just say that?

I can see the validity in that, but not in assigning hypocrisy to Christians as punctuation to a political OP.

Maybe I just got the wrong idea.

If so, I apologize.

beezzer


If I choose not to have health insurance, I would still have to be forced to pay into a national healthcare model.

It's being attempted with Obamacare, and is turning into a train wreck of epic proportions.

You already pay for national healthcare. Look at your pay stub and see how much of your earnings go to medicare.

We already have socialist healthcare in the US that is not horrible. I am all for paying a higher medicare tax if it can secure quality health care for Americans.

reply to post by badgerprints


I think his point was that these people pretend to be good christians, when what they are talking about is wholely un-christian, that would make that statement a positive for the christian religion

jrod

beezzer


If I choose not to have health insurance, I would still have to be forced to pay into a national healthcare model.

It's being attempted with Obamacare, and is turning into a train wreck of epic proportions.

You already pay for national healthcare. Look at your pay stub and see how much of your earnings go to medicare.

We already have socialist healthcare in the US that is not horrible. I am all for paying a higher medicare tax if it can secure quality health care for Americans.

Everyone is getting care. Everyone was getting care before Obamacare.

It's just who pays for it, is the question.

Now we all pay for it, but then again, we live in a fascist police-state and no longer live in America anymore.

reply to post by beezzer

It would infringe on my first amendment rights if I had religious differences to the aspect of care.

I don't see how that is true when you could choose to get private healthcare insurance in the UK if you want. It's no different from taxing people and then handing out food stamps to the poor. All nations have some degree of socialism and wealth redistribution built into the system, so I don't see why that type of socialized health care would all of a sudden violate the constitution when other socialist programs apparently do not.

Here in a Australia we have basically the same type of "free" healthcare that the UK has, people with an income above a certain amount pay a "medicare levy" as part of their income tax, and it seems to work ok without sending Australia bankrupt. Having said all that however, I would still prefer a more personalized approach to healthcare because I hardly ever get sick and would rather pay up front for any treatment I require.

reply to post by badgerprints


I see your point, I apologize too. I didn't mean to take a stab at Christians but I can see how one can look at it that way.

I'm trying to keep religion out of this thread, but they hypocrisy of people like Hudgens sicken me. Pay lip service on Sunday and then go out and preach that less fortunate(those with a pre-existing conditions) are not worthy enough to have healthcare is disgusting.

iRoyalty
reply to post by badgerprints

 

I think his point was that these people pretend to be good christians, when what they are talking about is wholely un-christian, that would make that statement a positive for the christian religion

That statement can only be accurate if you pretend that Christ advocated The State force you, by penalty of law, to allow your time and property be freely accessible to anyone who demands it.

Leftism relies heavily on fantasy to make sense.

reply to post by beezzer


I see what you're saying but the increase in taxes is remarkably less than paying a monthly insurance. The medical records in the NHS stay in the NHS and are very well guarded. I actually work at the NHS for the patient phone lines and to access someones record just gives us the information we would need from them anyway (name address, GP surgery etc) which we would need if we needed to send an ambulance or get a GP to call them back. All information stays within the NHS and is protected by law, I would go to prison if I accessed a patient record without their consent and everything on the SPINE (patient record database) is monitored.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


The problem is the mandate.

Americans are being told that they have to pay into the system and that they have to get health insurance.

If it was a voluntary system, I wouldn't have a problem with it. My issue is that I am being forced into it or else I get punished.

TheWrightWing

Leftism relies heavily on fantasy to make sense.

Examples please?

I think we need to have some things in control of our government, too much power to private businesses gives un-elected businessmen power over the government, (such as Monstanto having laws made to specifically protect that one private business), elected officials have no power anymore, privatisation has destroyed democracy, the founding fathers warned us about this! I can find many quotes from them if you want.

Also stop calling everything that isn't right wing privatisation 'leftie' you just sound like an angry republican, and we're all sick of those.. We need something with balance, we definitely need privatisation, but we also need some power to go back to the people we have chosen to elect.

iRoyalty
reply to post by badgerprints

 

I think his point was that these people pretend to be good christians, when what they are talking about is wholely un-christian, that would make that statement a positive for the christian religion

If I'd seen a declaration of membership in the Christian faith on the part of the speaker or the audience it would have been apparent. I missed the reference.
I did apologize to the OP

reply to post by beezzer


Well then what we have in the UK is exactly that because we do have health insurance and plenty of private hospitals, but if you can't afford that then the NHS will take you in, it may not be good standard but everyone gets seen.

reply to post by badgerprints


Okie doke! Just helping clarify, not having a go

Peace.

reply to post by beezzer

If it was a voluntary system, I wouldn't have a problem with it. My issue is that I am being forced into it or else I get punished.

You are forced into paying all sorts of taxes, a lot of which goes toward paying for things other people need. But at the end of the day I do agree with you on a philosophical level.

ChaoticOrder

You are forced into paying all sorts of taxes, a lot of which goes toward paying for things other people need. But at the end of the day I do agree with you on a philosophical level.

The concept is General Welfare (Roads, Bridges..) as opposed to Personal Welfare (Cell Phones, Health Care...)

General Welfare is specified in our founding documents. Personal Welfare is not. Buy your own insurance, I'll buy mine.

reply to post by TheWrightWing


How are things like schools, roads and bridges etc paid for in the states? We pay a tax to the council, how is it done on your side?

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing

Leftism relies heavily on fantasy to make sense.

Examples please? I think we need to have some things in control of our government, too much power to private businesses gives un-elected businessmen power over the government, (such as Monstanto having laws made to specifically protect that one private business), elected officials have no power anymore, privatisation has destroyed democracy, the founding fathers warned us about this! I can find many quotes from them if you want.

Also stop calling everything that isn't right wing privatisation 'leftie' you just sound like an angry republican, and we're all sick of those.. We need something with balance, we definitely need privatisation, but we also need some power to go back to the people we have chosen to elect.

Examples? Why just follow our exchange for instance.

Leftism is leftism whether the espouser is aware of it or not. Ideally leftism works best when the advocate is not aware of its leftist nature.

How about one example where leftism does not depend fundamentally on myth, deception, fantasy or outright lies? I can't think of a single example, can you?

For instance, on topic for this thread: Healthcare is a Right!

Based of course, on nothing factual at all and easily disproven.

beezzer
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

The problem is the mandate.

Americans are being told that they have to pay into the system and that they have to get health insurance.

If it was a voluntary system, I wouldn't have a problem with it. My issue is that I am being forced into it or else I get punished.

Its not health insurance - its a tax after all isn't it! yeah right, and I have some genuine UFO metal to sell to anyone interested.

Defining something that so obviously is not a tax as a tax so they can bypass the Constitution means there really is no valid Constitution or limit on government power period.

Anyone who says "nah they'd never" is fooling themselves as there is not one government given powers that has not used them to the fullest extent.

Giving up freedom in exchange for healthcare is not worth it.

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

How are things like schools, roads and bridges etc paid for in the states?

Again, see General Welfare vs Personal Welfare.

The difference is quite real.

reply to post by TheWrightWing

The concept is General Welfare (Roads, Bridges..) as opposed to Personal Welfare (Cell Phones, Health Care...)

If your taxes went only to things like public infrastructure the U.S. would look a hell of a lot better than it does now. Furthermore, isn't it a "general welfare" issue to make sure there aren't loads of sick people wondering around the streets and starting epidemics? The issue isn't as black and white as you make it imo.

But like I have said many times now, I agree with your fundamental argument about forced wealth redistribution. In fact if it were up to me there would be no personal income tax at all, only businesses would be taxed and the money gained from that would be spent only on "general welfare" projects like public infrastructure.