Marxism in the USA: Establish a basic income guarantee for all Americans

reply to post by corvuscorrax


Ignorance doesnt stop anyone from complaining, in fact, I would say it encourages it.



If we arent working towards an ideal, what are we working towards?

Instead of just throwing money at people in need, who frequently waste it and abuse it, I feel it would be a significant improvement to give them hard good items. So, instead of just throwing change in the homeless mans jar, you bring them some food. Better yet, you teach them how to grow their own food.

Meeting basic needs isnt some far off concept, its exactly the system we have in place now. Except, it is with the intent of creating a fragile system with rampant abuse at all ends of the spectrum, market domination, and distraction.

As far as the petition, I think it would be a much better idea to give resources that met basic needs rather than fiat money which is only expected to meet basic needs (but in reality does not). If my math on it is correct, it would even lower the cost of all of the money we currently use to meet this issue.

All that said, I am not confident we are advanced enough yet, as a species, to recognize the value in this. Many people can understand it, even some nations, but most are still too caught up in the same paradigm that got us to where we are now in the first place. The future looks rather bleak for the US.

Meh.

Here in Alaska we get paid anywhere fro $900 - $2000 a year just for being a verified resident. It actually helps stimulate the economy. There are tons of sales every year when the checks go out.

People are able to pay down some of their debts, or go buy some plane tickets to escape the brutal cold in the winter. It really is a good thing.

Money generated from oil revenue is invested in the stock market, and that is how the "fund" is grown and maintained. The money really belongs to the people anyway, as the oil belongs to the residents of the state.

The Socialist child-like minds on this planet just want a government to supply them with the basic food, shelter, water, and healthcare (and TV/internet?), and maybe a litlle spending money. Just the basics to survive.


All that free food, shelter, water, and healthcare requires work, effort, thought, and diligence.

Unfortunately, someone must decide who works where, and how much that labor is worth, and who is the boss.

TPTB are willing to promise all that, but they will also decide who works where, and how much you get, where you live, when you work, and what you should eat, and who you should have sex with.

I prefer a free-market, where I decide what I want to do, and how hard I want to work, and where I live. Maximum Liberty conditions.

Others prefer being taken care of like rats in a cage. They think they will get along with all the other rats in peace and harmony, and minimal effort will be required, and that the guy outside the cage only has their best interests as his purpose.

reply to post by Tusks


You call what we have now "maximum liberty conditions"?

And it's the socialists you claim to have child like minds.

corvuscorrax
reply to post by Tusks

 

You call what we have now "maximum liberty conditions"?

And it's the socialists you claim to have child like minds.

First question---not at all.

Second question/statement--yup.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman




If this happens the people who want to survive had better learn how to trade their talents and hand made items, home grown produce for others talents, items and produce.

And when everyone feels they have money and now dont need to work to survive, who will run the services essential to society?

We don't have the proper technological systems yet for this kind of policy to work. This policy is great, but it's not gonna work yet until we hit the technological spot where we can go forward with such an idea and eliminate poverty, for now it will only cause regression in society.

ojdidit

badgerprints
Sheer stupidity.
Sheer damned stupidity.
It'll get votes for another term or two and then there will be nothing to buy with the printed government dollars because even decent and hardworking people will drop anchor and watch this parasitic bunch of scumbags crash and burn.

So you equate poor people with a "parasitic bunch of scumbags"? Holy hell, brother. That's harsh even by my standards. I think the net increase in happiness would be a win, and maybe the "decent and hardworking people" wouldn't have to work quite so hard and could actually enjoy their lives a little. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm no brother of yours and try to don't put words in my mouth. You just made that equation.

I equate ANYONE who will waste their lives being lazy and living off of others as parasitic scumbags.
Poor people are poor because they don't make a lot of money. Parasitic scumbags are parasitic scumbags because they don't give a damn about anything but living for free.

And...Don't cry at me about being poor. I've lived in a tent and bought my beans and rice in buckets at the feed store to make ends meet...all the while working whatever job I could get. I lived on welfare for 3 months when I had two broken legs and things were just absolutely screwed and was more ashamed of myself than at any time in my whole life. I've worked in jobs that benevolent welfare cheerleaders and lifetime charity cases would sneer at and call inhumane but I worked if I could find it.

I have no sympathy for the useless, whining, bunch of puss filled maggots that the US is paying good money to sit on their butts and do nothing.

Why would anyone in their right mind have any sympathy or respect for people that don't even respect themselves?

reply to post by badgerprints


Would you be opposed to forcing them to work?

badgerprints
I have no sympathy for the useless, whining, bunch of puss filled maggots that the US is paying good money to sit on their butts and do nothing.

You mean the "puss filled maggots" who are most likely children, elderly and the disabled? That's who almost always receives aid. If you are a healthy adult without children, you don't get check.

I'm so tried of people like you justifying hurting a very vulnerable group of people just based on a few rumors of people abusing the system. Sure, tell me about the time you saw someone paying for shrimp with foodstamps or the time you saw a nice car in the drive way of someone rumored to be receiving welfare. Feel free to ignore all the studies that show the vast majority of people are honest.

There's corporations who pollute, produce toxic merchandise, and conduct illegal activities. I don't hear you crying for their destruction?

beezzer

If everyone had the basics, there would always be a sub-set of the population that would want more. If I knew that working harder would get me more "stuff" then I would work harder.
Then people would be envious.
Then they would covet.
Then they would steal.

If I didn't get more by working harder, then the incentive to work harder would be lost.

What you wrote doesn't make sense. Why don't you think people would work just to get more than basics?

Regardless of the Tea party line, working harder no longer equals a higher standard of living. There's fast food workers working 80 a week who can't make enough to eat. The solution isn't even education because over half of the college grads can't find a job. So where's the motivation now?

People aren't envious, they are mad because the system is rigged so only the elite can succeed.

I think that something like this has the potential to reduce a lot of the government bureaucracy.

If everyone has a guaranteed income, it paves the way to eliminate many government aid programs. You can do away with food stamps, because people would have an income to purchase food from. Medicare/medicaid could be eliminated as well, or at least we could start to phase it out. Child support and spousal support could be drawn from your monthly "freebies" check. Public housing. Schools. Student financial aid. ALL ELIMINATED. Even social security could be phased out. You have a check. You're responsible for investing it to sustain yourself in retirement. How much would that save?

If done correctly, I think that a program like this could be sustainable.

People will undoubtedly take advantage of the system, and a certain portion of the population will choose to mooch, however I believe that the vast majority of people would continue to work, because, let's face it, a couple thousand buck a month isn't enough to pay for all of the luxuries in life that we've come to enjoy.

reply to post by beezzer


if thats the way you think, it tells more about you than about others,... the greedy #s the sociopaths, are the minority... leave me alone and in peace and i do so to you, i may even help you out of sheer altruism... THATS the majority of humanity... you see greed and envy because the ones that set up our reality are like this... and you think it s the human mindset... it s not...

the opponents of the basic income don t realize that they themselves would profit from this as well... 4,8 trillion yearly to pull that of in the uS ? Your gubbamint, spend the crazy sum of 175 trillion in 2012 alone for military expenditures... let that sink in and then tell me that basic income is "socialist hogwash"...
you drones deserve the slavery you re in, if thats the way you think

reply to post by TheWrightWing


seriously... have you ever been in need ? or downright poor?... you would find that "comfortable" ?

why don t you go live like that then?

reply to post by BlubberyConspiracy


Don t worry... there are a lot of people who just like work /beeing occupied with an activity ( i am one of those) ... it s not that everybody would fall into a hammock and won t move for the next few years... "work" would have to be rethunk and that s a good thing...

reply to post by signalfire


Couldn't agree with you more.

But I wouldn't tax at 80%.

I wouldn't have income, property or sales tax at all.

I would tax all banks at 15% and everyone would be doing fine.

TheWrightWing
reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

 

Leftism is a faith-based brainwashing cult, take the famous Marxist Utopian the Rev. Jim Jones for example.

Slavery (absolute control) is always the goal of leftism, it was true in the old south (Enjoying the benefits of other peoples hard work) and it is still true today, in fact, it's even more the case. Absolute control is institutionalised, it's the establishment.

Will people wake up?

They are distracted by sports, celebrity worship and working twice as hard as ever to pay a bill. When they do tune into the news to get a grasp of what the problems could be, they are lied to openly by a compliant press who facilitate the goal of the very leftists who 'know' what's best for us.

The illusion is reinforced by persecuting thought criminals, prosecuting thought crime by ostracising them from the collective.

In other words, fascism.

This is nothing more than a bump. This needs to be said and read many more times, by many more people. This is the absolute crux of it, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for that TWW.

You already partially have this now. What is entitlement? social security, disability, food stamps, housing, farm subsidies...

I dont really have any further comments on this accept that once manufacturing dies and we give way to tech? You just might see something like this.

Mon1k3r
This is nothing more than a bump. This needs to be said and read many more times, by many more people. This is the absolute crux of it, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for that TWW.

The one good thing about the future is the right wingers will be extinct.

reply to post by Pejeu


Not cool man. lol There are Ted talks on this subject; has nothing to do with marxism, left or right and everything to do with society moving into ai and automation. What is there for you to do if machines do everything for you? heh no more tilling fields, no more manual labor, no more welfare. Just people doing.. lord knows what. This is guess. Surfing the net talking about... bs like history and how left and right went away with the intro of... no more work.