Tornados in the Midwest, a bit of information from someone who was in the heart of the storms.

reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace


I have seen first hand, piles of bricks, masonry blocks strewn about, cars twisted around trees that had no bark left on them and spent 3 hours on my stomach in the insulation trying to pull out a cat for a family who lost their daughter. Until you have walked through and seen what an f-4 or f-5 tornado can do, there is no real way to explain it.

Even the strongest tile roofs, or concrete homes would be pushed over in the worst of the Tornadoes we experience in this country.

reply to post by gluetrap

they can hit anywhere in the country.

No they can't, there is a set of requirements that makes certain areas vulnerable to it. You will not get a tornado in a mountainous region or in a large forest.

There is nowhere on the planet that doesn't offer some sort of natural disaster risk.

True, but we have the brains to ascertain risks and take precautions, even to avoid or prioritize taking risks.

It might look like they were made of matchsticks, but the hardest hit areas today were upper middle class well built houses

That is the point our understanding on well built houses is completely different, I can appreciate a wooden frame structure that at best has a rock wall for some support and some bricks coverings, but I wouldn't classify it as safe for that kind of weather especially in an area that is targeted repeatedly.

Most of the new homes built in my area have Hurricane braces on the roof and extra attachments to the foundation, and many also have basements or storm shelters to keep the people safe.

That was my point in Europe most houses are built like storm shelters by default, it predates even the World Wars, even rural houses are often constructed of stone blocks and not wood. Generally speaking we have also some wood construction but mostly in Northern Europe, and note that we also have fewer termite problem (I think they are now an infestation in France and growing)...

I don't want to take over this thread and turn it into an argument, but I really have a hard time with the blame that gets tossed around after a disaster like this.

These storm can in fact happen in both the mountains, and the forests, sometimes in terrain that is both. Every state in the US has had a confirmed tornado at one point. There is a very specific set of circumstances having to do with air temperature, surface humidity, and updraft that must happen, which is why the Oklahoma city area gets hit often, it sits on a trifecta of air mass confluences.

I can't figure out how to embed, but here is a link to an f-4 that was in the Smokey Mtn. National Park

youtu.be...

If you google Tornado in heavily wooded areas, many many results pop up, the US does in fact have many many trees, we aren't just Buffalo and open prairie over here.

Here is an article about elevation and tornadic storms.
www.ustornadoes.com...

I quickly went and read the wiki on this town ...

Washington, Illinois

... and one thing caught my attention and that was there are two businesses involved in manufacturing fire trucks and equipment and I wonder if that will cause any supply and demand issues if these businesses were directly affected by the tornado?

Panic2k11:

...why do people living in an high intensity Tornado/Hurricane area still build homes in what seems to be paper derivatives or at best wood and plaster houses?

Although you make a valid point with your question, a tornado is a ferocious element of air circulation, highly concentrated, high spin velocity, with a limited random travel. Once it connects to the ground you can add in debris, which makes it more deadly and destructive.

The houses in the mid-west plains do look as though they are flimsily constructed, but I guess they are traditional for the area they are made. The use of stone and brick would make construction in those areas very expensive, and although they would offer greater protection against some tornado categories, an f4 or f5 would simply tear apart a stone constructed building, not just by air circulation, but also by debris impact.

The lighter-constructed buildings are more easily destroyed, but are also more easily and rapidly re-constructed, and at less expense. The storm shelters are usually a little distance from the house which ensures that people are away from flying debris, as long as they have fair warning. I have faith in the people living there that they know what is right.

Multiple tornadoes during the traditionally quietest month is very unusual. One can no longer view the climate as being moderately stable any more, especially when it can produce something like this on a whim.

reply to post by gluetrap


Great video, notice that the tornado formed over the (river?) and did not lasted long, looking on the degree of forestation that looked like a highly human developed forest (notice the distance between the trees and the tree uniformity in age). In any case the video also seems to state that it is a rare event that proves that the rule is not static. AS you said there is many factors but I think it is common sense that a highly forested area (or a dense urbanized area) will absorb the energy of the wind...

Panic2k11
reply to post by gluetrap

 

Great video, notice that the tornado formed over the (river?) and did not lasted long, looking on the degree of forestation that looked like a highly human developed forest (notice the distance between the trees and the tree uniformity in age). In any case the video also seems to state that it is a rare event that proves that the rule is not static. AS you said there is many factors but I think it is common sense that a highly forested area (or a dense urbanized area) will absorb the energy of the wind...

Okay, you are just really repeating every myth about tornadoes that exist. A highly urbanized area is not going to do a darn thing to stop a large tornado, not a thing, they may seem to be hit less often, but that is simply a matter of there not being all much land covered by large downtown urban cores. Neither will trees. Mountains are a bit of a different scenario, but not unheard of. The article I linked up thread tells about several.

Here is a wikipedia article that lists the tornadoes that have stuck large cities.
en.wikipedia.org...

November is a second severe season, but not generally as far north as they hit today. It will be another outbreak that is heavily studied for the next few years.

ETA: Here is a wikipedia article about the common myths surrounding Tornadoes, these even trip up some lifelong Tornado Alley residents causing harm when perhaps none would have been.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Klassified


They have been spotty, I heard a radio tower got hit. I had no service earlier during the day and I know many people have had issues sending/ recieving texts and calls.

Reports are saying power outage for 3-5 days for some areas. There were six of them that touched down between Washington (the town that got hit) and Metamora (town about 10 miles away) where I live within an hour or two. Unbelievable.

It TRULY sucks being in the path of on F4 tornado. [insert sad face here w/tears]

My thoughts are with you tonight in the path of the wild storms.

Kansas/Oklahoma seem to always be on the convergence of the hot weather/ cold weather. I miss my people, but not the weather.

reply to post by TripleLindy


There's a rather large city (Bloomington Illinois) about an hour away that has a ton of cops and emergency vehicles at the scene, as well police from SURRONDING areas (don't know why it capitalizes that), and I've seen Facebook posts of national guard assistance and martial law in the area. All in all I think they've got a large amount of people helping out, they have the town of Washington blocked off at certain areas but I just told them I lived in the neighborhood and the cop let me through, it's truly saddening seeing such a familiar thing completely wrecked.

reply to post by RomeByFire


Good lord... I thought only Kansas and the tri sate only got this. Wish there was more I could do other than sending positive thoughts

reply to post by RomeByFire


I am glad you are safe, it is just heartbreaking.

All in all it was bad but could have been worse. Power will be out for a few days but nothing unmanageable, truly surreal experience having a neighboring town just 10 miles away get devestated by multiple tornadoes. I've read a lot of tragic stories on Facebook tonight and have many friends affected, your prayers and thoughts are much welcomed as many of us who normally stand outside and tell the tornado to 'bring it' are pretty blown away (no pun intended, I promise) by today's events.

But hey, beautiful things are born out of pain and anguish, so here's lookin' up. I'll keep you guys posted on how things are going tomorrow.

elysiumfire
Panic2k11:

...why do people living in an high intensity Tornado/Hurricane area still build homes in what seems to be paper derivatives or at best wood and plaster houses?

Although you make a valid point with your question, a tornado is a ferocious element of air circulation, highly concentrated, high spin velocity, with a limited random travel. Once it connects to the ground you can add in debris, which makes it more deadly and destructive.

The houses in the mid-west plains do look as though they are flimsily constructed, but I guess they are traditional for the area they are made. The use of stone and brick would make construction in those areas very expensive, and although they would offer greater protection against some tornado categories, an f4 or f5 would simply tear apart a stone constructed building, not just by air circulation, but also by debris impact.

The lighter-constructed buildings are more easily destroyed, but are also more easily and rapidly re-constructed, and at less expense. The storm shelters are usually a little distance from the house which ensures that people are away from flying debris, as long as they have fair warning. I have faith in the people living there that they know what is right.

Multiple tornadoes during the traditionally quietest month is very unusual. One can no longer view the climate as being moderately stable any more, especially when it can produce something like this on a whim.

edit on 18/11/13 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)

I know that you are a seasoned poster, but have you ever been through an F4 or an F5 because those types of tornadoes really do not differientate between brick and wood although wood does not last as long?. Basements.... and I will never live in a tornado prone area without one.

Vortiki
Never in my life have I heard of over 60 tornado's touching down around the same area...

I believe it's over 60 tornadoes for the duration of the storm system, not just one area. Still pretty crumby for the people affected by them.

Tornado outbreaks are fairly common. Late April in 2011 a storm system produced over 350 tornadoes, which is the largest outbreak on record. I was lucky on that one. We were heading down to see STS-134 launch during the thick of it, but we delayed our departure about four hours. Not even because of the storms, we got stuck at work. We ended up driving down I-75 and seeing all the damage, with lots of places still not having emergency responders present. A few days later, I want to say right around May 1 when we were coming back it didn't look much different. It was surreal.

reply to post by RomeByFire


I really appreciate all the extra effort you are putting in to keep us updated and well informed!

Stay Safe OK!

Job Well Done!

[edit] Flagged!

palmalBlue2;

have you ever been through an F4 or an F5 because those types of tornadoes really do not differientate between brick and wood although wood does not last as long?. Basements.... and I will never live in a tornado prone area without one.

I'm not sure why you are addressing me with this point, as I have already stated the very same point myself

The use of stone and brick would make construction in those areas very expensive, and although they would offer greater protection against some tornado categories, an f4 or f5 would simply tear apart a stone constructed building, not just by air circulation, but also by debris impact.

I'm scratching my head...

I spent my whole day yesterday in support and prayer for all of you affected by this terrible event. Thank you for sharing your story, keep us informed and stay safe.

reply to post by RomeByFire


I dont live too far from you....send me a pm if you need something I will come get ya brother.

reply to post by Panic2k11


A couple of things actually.

1. It's cheaper and faster to put up than more solid forms of construction.
2. Insurance keeps paying out to rebuild such housing.
3. People build out in what used to be "farm country" (with higher odds of destructive storms - but you didn't hear about it back when it was only corn or wheat getting knocked down) because it's cheaper than building in city areas where storm tracks tend to be less frequent. (Cities aren't "storm proof" by any means, but most cities tend to build up where destructive storms happen less often compared to the surrounding region. If that wasn't true, some of those farm areas would have been built over even sooner - but people tended to abide by common sense until it becomes profitable enough to do otherwise. Just like a lot of construction is now allowed in flood plains where it didn't used to be.) Cheaper real estate outside a city also holds true for Champaign-Urbana or Peoria, even though those still seem like the boonies compared to Chicago, St. Louis, or Memphis. People want the bigger houses, even though it takes a longer commute and they're in a less sutable location with higher risk.
4. Few people want to live in an underground bunker or a partially sunken dome, even though such construction has much higher odds of surviving storms without damage. Construction costs needed to do it right are also much higher because most housing construction companies have specialized in more "conventional" wood frame construction.

I have family downstate too, so I hope they're ok. But you still got to be pragmatic about it. There's also a likely reason why the older farm houses are built so far apart (like almost a mile apart) rather then clustered together. In a new development the whole neighborhood is gone. The places that are still doing things the "old way", if your house was destroyed it would be possible to go stay at a neighbors until you got your house rebuilt.