My Experience with

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 01:22 AM

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reply to post by preludefanguy

I love you too.. but don't put me up on anything
uncomfortable to get down from.. I'm getting
up in years.

KPB

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 01:54 PM

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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by preludefanguy

A pure heart, a clear mind, a freedom from harmful
symbols, honesty, love and balance -- these can
build a solid INTERFACE between the body, mind
and spirit.

But by filling this interface full of faulty symbols,
and baking in a desire to use the interface to
escape from death, we create a monster - we
create a 'soul' - which in fact rapidly becomes
a parasite, if it wasn't to begin with. (some
people do have a pre-existing parasite enter
them around the time of birth).

The spirit is our 'upper interface' with all that
is real and beautiful and true. It can't be
corrupted by 3D symbols, as it is timeless
and formless as we understand form.

Let's call spirit "the real soul' of the full 5D
being that we are. But since we are cutoff
from our 'real soul' we build that terrible
substitute.

And we are cutoff from our 'real soul' because
human society doesn't raise it's children to
live in harmony with their real selves.. but
rather teaches them fear, death, insanity
and how to build a soul.
KPB

When I read this it brings to mind something I've pondered for years now - free will….does humanity as a whole truly have it?

The answer seems to me to be 'no', because free will means living at 'choice', and we see it especially when we look at the way human society (for the most part) raises it's children, I don't think that people are 'choosing' to 'teach' their children "fear, death, insanity", etc…they just don't know any better.

And I certainly don't think that the average person 'chooses' to live life as the 'soul' that was (essentially) 'built' into them by shoddy parenting….particularly the sort of parenting which generates insanity (and there's a heck of a lot of that going around, in fact, it's multiplying exponentially)..

This brings me to the essential question: (and I'm talking from the spiritual point of view) How can the insane be held 'accountable' for their actions, when they are living without free will - I mean, no one chooses insanity, thus they cannot be said to choose their lives (or what 'energies they feed')…They are stuck living in a "soul" they had no part in making…

Now where does that fit into a Loving, Just, Honest, etc., Universe?

Yes, there are many many people like you and I, who managed to shed the 'soul that parenting built' and seek to live in harmony with our "real selves", but we were lucky (or something), because somehow we grew up with our free will 'intact'…

Then again, maybe "lucky" is a misnomer…I have the feeling that in having been 'gifted' with free will, we are endowed (by virtue of living in a 'spiritual war zone' of a world) with a responsibility to become 'warriors' of one kind or another…

Of course, we could utilize our free will to choose 'not' to take on such a responsibility, but I think my "real soul" would be awfully disappointed in me if I made that choice…Plus, it could be exciting to 'fight the good fight'…

…to paraphrase Peter Pan: "To die [so to speak] would be an awfully big adventure!"

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 03:05 PM

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reply to post by lostgirl

Lostgirl, you have outdone yourself That was 5 star brilliant!

Let me answer your question:

How can the insane be held 'accountable' for their actions, when they are living without free will

They both can and can't be.

For example I'm going all out in this thread:

There is a War Going on for your Soul

People on ATS don't know me much, but I'd give almost anything not
to have to be so STRONG and OBNOXIOUS so to speak in this thread.
I wish with all my heart and spirit.. that we could all just 'get along'
and stop being abused by TPTB. I don't WANT to talk like I am in
that thread. But for evil to prosper, good men have to do nothing.

That thread was started by a Christian.. who was parroting the
programming from one of the books of lies of the world; one of
the books written by the aliens so to speak. A book that has
been used to turn people into loveless monsters and prisoners
of their own minds.. neutralized to do anything positive in
the world.. to the extent they follow the programming. Again
I've known some mighty fine Christians in my life.. who were
loving, kind and selfless. Only in most of these cases they
were nearly 100% ignorant about what's in the bible.. that's
why they were so wonderful.

This is the perfect example.. anyone who is so brainwashed
that they work for an evil deity who eats the majority of
the human race and keeps them trapped here on Earth
for nearly forever.. yet they think that they are doing
'good' by telling people that they are trash if they don't
follow their book..

I'd bet that the great majority of those folks WANT to be
good and kind and to do the right thing. But look what's
happened to them! It's horrific.

Now this is 'my observation' of course.. but increasingly
a lot of people see things in this manner.. you almost
have to be blind not to see it.. in fact many pastors
tell their congregation not to read the bible.. because
if they do.. a lot of people will see through the lies.
I personally have been in 3 congregations where I
was specifically commanded not to read the bible.
(one was the Landmark Baptists) just so that people
don't think that I'm making this up.

Do these people have free will? Does a person who is
falsely convicted and imprisoned for life have free
will? Nope. They don't.

Is this fair? Nope it isn't. Now some new agers will
say that nothing happens that we didn't agree to
before we were born.. that we volunteer to be
imprisoned. Now.. I'm not going to argue with
how true or not true that might be. That very
concept is a psyop. A deflection from the ugly
truth.

You are right --- most of the human race has
little free will. And that sucks.

How can 'God' allow that? Well that's a rhetorical
question, because 'God' has.

This is part of "The problem with Evil" that all
true lovers of reality must solve. And I can't
solve it for you. I solved it for myself, and
that was the hardest things I'd ever done..
I'm still amazed that I did. Only it wasn't
just me.. it was a 'group effort'.

Do you want to respond to this first? Maybe
I can say some more if you respond.

Thanks for that delightful, insightful reply.

KPB

DarkCyrus

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 04:41 PM

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Where does this Ra consortium come from?

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 05:05 PM

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How can the insane be held 'accountable' for their actions, when they are living without free will

They both can and can't be.
For example I'm going all out in this thread:
There is a War Going on for your Soul
People on ATS don't know me much, but I'd give almost anything not
to have to be so STRONG and OBNOXIOUS so to speak in this thread.
I wish with all my heart and spirit.. that we could all just 'get along'
and stop being abused by TPTB. I don't WANT to talk like I am in
that thread. But for evil to prosper, good men have to do nothing.

Now this is 'my observation' of course.. but increasingly
a lot of people see things in this manner.. you almost
have to be blind not to see it.. in fact many pastors
tell their congregation not to read the bible.. because
if they do.. a lot of people will see through the lies.
I personally have been in congregations specifically
commanded not to read the bible.
(one was the Landmark Baptists) just so that people
don't think that I'm making this up.

On this I agree except for one thing - The Bible is not in itself evil…Yes, it has lots of evil in it, but it also contains great beauty, specifically in the New Testament where Jesus' teachings all (essentially) say the same thing, "Love one another"…

The problem with all the 'Christians' (et al) who haven't actually read the book, is that they are relying on misleading interpretations of what it says…(not to mention all the misinterpretation of mistranslations being expounded on).

I've read it cover to cover three times, and studied all the newly uncovered resource materials (i.e. Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.) to make sure I was getting as accurate a picture as possible…

I do not subscribe to any 'interpretation' (particularly not literal ones) except my own, and even that has gone thru countless hours of pondering, questioning, and efforts at discerning meaning within context…

The Bible can help people struggling to 'find' a relationship with God by showing some of Who He is (and probably more so - Who He is Not, which is just as important)…The way I like to put it is: "I don't keep 'my' God in the Bible box.."

Do these people have free will? Does a person who is
falsely convicted and imprisoned for life have free
will? Nope. They don't.

Is this fair? Nope it isn't. Now some new agers will
say that nothing happens that we didn't agree to
before we were born.. that we volunteer to be
imprisoned. Now.. I'm not going to argue with
how true or not true that might be. That very
concept is a psyop. A deflection from the ugly
truth.

I agree here, and my reasoning ties into the question of insanity, i.e. I seriously doubt that anyone ever agreed to be born to become the victim of a guy who gets his jollies cutting people to pieces 'before' murdering and cannibalizing them..

You are right --- most of the human race has
little free will. And that sucks.

How can 'God' allow that? Well that's a rhetorical
question, because 'God' has.

This is part of "The problem with Evil" that all
true lovers of reality must solve. And I can't
solve it for you. I solved it for myself, and
that was the hardest things I'd ever done..
I'm still amazed that I did. Only it wasn't
just me.. it was a 'group effort'.
KPB

I actually think I may have "The problem with Evil" somewhat solved, at least I have a working theory…It is a bit shaky though, it involves God 'not' being totally infallible (well, not in the beginning anyways)..

You know, even if you can't solve "The problem with Evil" for others, you're allowed to tell (those you discern trustworthy) the 'solution' you ended up with

You could PM me, I won't tell anyone, honest….Tell you what, you show me yours, I'll show you mine
!

p.s. Please understand, when I say, "God", I don't mean any particular 'version'…It's not a name or definition, it's an appellation (as in the way different people can have the same personal terms for their parents - daddy, papa, mama, mom…). Does that make sense?

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl

I don't know if you've read those posts of mine where I agree with you;
that in fact without the bible I'd never have solved the problem of evil
for myself. That it was in fact some of the parables of Jesus that pushed
me in the right direction.

It's possible to find great truth in the Bible.. but it's also possible to find
great truth on the back of a box of cracker jacks. I'm not being flippant.

Have you noticed that if you push a Christian hard enough, that they
always melt down? But if you push a loving person to the point of death
or to death .. you just get a loving person. It would be wise for some
to learn from this.. what props up a Christian is corrupt symbols..
and if you push hard enough those symbols collapse under their own
weight. If you push on genuine love.. you just get more genuine love..

Now regarding 'God' -- I can't speak for 'God'. Just like I say to the
Christians who damn me to hell for disagreeing with the collection
of concepts that give their lives meaning...I would not presume to
speak for 'God'. I don't even want to spell 'God' without the air
quotes, out of respect and acknowledgement that I can't capture
'god' with a concept, whether created by a human, or mighty
prophet or even 'god'. Yes, 'god' can't stack all of 'Himself' into
a concept either.. and that is not a paradox. Concepts ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE LIMITED - BY DESIGN. Interesting that some of
the ancients had the wisdom to use 'air quotes' too (the Tetragrammaton).

But I can share my observation with you about why 'evil' exists.
It's really quite obvious and elementary.

If 'god' made children, or 'god's children' evolved to be that
powerful, then they would have the ability to do great evil.
Now is that 'god's' fault?

If a human child decides to be naughty and put a girls pigtails
in an inkwell .. well.. that girl might be traumatized for life..
and you can call that evil.. or you can call that whatever.
But do you blame 'god' for that 'evil' ?

How about the billions of pounds of innocent, sweet, cute
animals we slaughter every year. I can't think of much
more hellishness than to do that.. those little chickies
and the baby lambs are SO cute! and we slaughter them
with scarce a thought, slash them into bits and use
(in some cases) child slave labor to process them and
eat them down with scarce a thought to the beauty
and innocent lives we have destroyed.

Do you see 'god' swooping in to save those innocents?
No. In fact in the wild the lion slaughtered the lamb
before humans proper even existed.

So maybe 'god' is an asshole?

Could you love a 'god' who was ALSO an asshole?

What if only people who could love that 'god' and
all the implications that entails unconditionally
could solve the problem of evil?

Perhaps a person who could love 'that god' could
also have the door opened to the 'human group
soul'. Perhaps the 'human group soul' is 1000
time 'more evil and insane' than anything you
could possibly imagine. Perhaps someone who
could do this might not be much affected by
some cranky words on an internet chat forum.

Well.. always more to say.. but maybe that
will be helpful to you..

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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DarkCyrus
Where does this Ra consortium come from?

Various people talk about it. It 'seems' to have been here
for 5000+ years. It 'seems' to be mostly created by an
initial 'alien' teaching humans how to take their innate
energy, and to create false souls with it, then Ra traps
those souls in a reincarnation loop and eventually
harvest them for his own reproductive and nourishment
purposes.

Sounds crazy I know. I saw hints of it for decades during
my time training in kundalini Yoga and various experiences
in the world. Others have other, but similar experiences
and it even seems related to the 'PSP' phenomenon
associated with UFOs.

KPB

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:28 PM
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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lostgirl

I don't know if you've read those posts of mine where I agree with you;
that in fact without the bible I'd never have solved the problem of evil
for myself. That it was in fact some of the parables of Jesus that pushed
me in the right direction.

It's possible to find great truth in the Bible.. but it's also possible to find
great truth on the back of a box of cracker jacks. I'm not being flippant.

But I can share my observation with you about why 'evil' exists.
It's really quite obvious and elementary.

How about the billions of pounds of innocent, sweet, cute
animals we slaughter every year. I can't think of much
more hellishness than to do that.. those little chickies
and the baby lambs are SO cute! and we slaughter them
with scarce a thought, slash them into bits and use
(in some cases) child slave labor to process them and
eat them down with scarce a thought to the beauty
and innocent lives we have destroyed.

So maybe 'god' is an asshole?

Could you love a 'god' who was ALSO an asshole?

Okay, I am firmly convinced that God is not "an asshole"…

He is not to blame for any of the 'evils' you've described - they are all perpetuated by human beings acting on their freewill…

Which is why I can easily love God, despite the 'evil men do'…

And here is my take on why evil exists: Contrast - contrast as a means to fully explore and experience life in human form.

It's complicated, but as an analogy think about light and shadows (i.e. darkness)…It is the Dark that helps us fully appreciate Light, it is the shadows which give Light 'definition'. Light is all the more appreciable for the existence of Dark…A bright sunny day is most appreciable from the darkened shadow beneath a large shade tree….
When it comes to good and evil, well the first thing is that there could be no true use of free will without the existence of evil….how could we truly have the 'choice' to do good if evil didn't exist? How would we strive for spiritual growth without evil to test and tempt us? How would we get to have the experience of succeeding in overcoming obstacles if there were no evil to provide those obstacles…

There is a lot more (and better!) exposition on those general ideas, but my brain is starting to go foggy…

The point is, just because God included evil in His creation, does not mean He is to blame for humanities evil actions…Quite the opposite, He is to be pitied in having to witness His children use their gift of free will to choose evil over Love….

Now…the existence of insanity is another ball of wax entirely, and is actually much, much, more difficult than evil to reconcile with a Loving God…
But, if I am going to love Him, I can only 'give' to him of that love by putting forth sincere, generous, effort toward gaining knowledge and developing (as best I'm capable) as much understanding of Him as possible -

I hope I've done a decent job explaining myself - it's late and my brain is on it's last few coherent cells

The thing is, everything outlined above is quite more complicated, thus so hard to express in mere words…Please ask for clarification if you'd like (although, my impression is that you are adept at reading between the lines and intuiting any details missing in the actual verbiage).

Have a blessed night!

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl

Until you come to learn how 'the Universe' anyway..
(not using the G word there) is an 'asshole', you
will never ever plumb the depths of unlimited
awareness and love.. that's my experience.

EVERYONE wants to resist the core realization..
and that's why they all fail the last test. This is
the Kobiyashi Maru test you know.. maybe
1 in a billion passes the test. All 7 billion
could easily past the test -- but they don't
WANT TO.

But hey! this is not a race. So long as you are
happy then I am happy for you.

This is my 2 cents.

KPB

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

If the universe is an asshole, where did the unlimited love come from?

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl

The SAME PLACE!

Haven't you noticed that humans can one minute be wonderfully
loving and the next minute positively homicidally insane?

Where do you think humans got that?

You think that 'God' is just ONE THING?

KPB

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 24 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lostgirl

The SAME PLACE!

Haven't you noticed that humans can one minute be wonderfully
loving and the next minute positively homicidally insane?

I have seen it as a reality of humankind over-all, but in any given individual, such a broad dichotomy would fall under complete insanity in the individual…

Do you really believe that the One who created humankind would be in any way 'lesser' then they?
And as you have pointed out, humans are subject to the 'disconnect' from their spirits - 'God/Universe' exists as Pure Spirit and thus is not prey to the misinformation/misdirection and misunderstanding which informs the human experience…

I have times where I can literally feel God's love for me, and (more precious to me) times I can feel my love for Him…This Love is 'huger' than anything humans (most of them) are capable of feeling for each other - It is utterly unconditional...

You think that 'God' is just ONE THING?
KPB

I think 'God' is All things, but He relates to His 'creation' from the Love and Wisdom of His Pure Spirit 'aspect'…This is why 'God' can be all powerful, though He doesn't always use His power - that depends on the purpose of the given situation...

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by lostgirl

Have you ever considered that "God" is the "God" of all things
and not just humans? That maybe, just maybe the Universe
isn't designed just for the whims of humans?

But this conversation has gotten way off topic, and while
I've tried to give some pointers are you have requested,
I can't do the Kobayahi Maru for you.

We can talk another time in PM or email if you wish.

KPB

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lostgirl

Have you ever considered that "God" is the "God" of all things
and not just humans? That maybe, just maybe the Universe
isn't designed just for the whims of humans?

That is exactly what my last paragraph said….."God is All things" (& thus is "the 'God' of all things)…"He relates to His creation" (i.e. not 'merely' humans, but "creation" - meaning 'all things') …

But this conversation has gotten way off topic, and while
I've tried to give some pointers are you have requested,
I can't do the Kobayahi Maru for you.

You know, I never asked for "pointers", only for your 'story'…and I think my points above show that I've a pretty good handle on the Kobayahi Maru (considering the similarity - as pointed out above - of our conclusions).

We can talk another time in PM or email if you wish.KPB

Yes, if you would want to talk further, I would welcome your PM…Oh and, my apologies for taking your thread off course, also for assuming that you could 'intuit' between the lines and understand more than I could actually put into words..
edit on 25-11-2013 by lostgirl because: further clarification

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by lostgirl

I do intuit.

And then I generally push and push and push.
Then something breaks - inside the questioner.

If you put someone into the role of a spiritual teacher and they accept the role for even a moment this is what they will do.

The person will often then say in one way or another that they don't want a spiritual teacher - they just want their comfortable delusions confirmed. Then the teacher says "as you wish".

Sound familiar?

KPB

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lostgirl

I do intuit.

And then I generally push and push and push.
Then something breaks - inside the questioner.

If you put someone into the role of a spiritual teacher and they accept the role for even a moment this is what they will do.

The person will often then say in one way or another that they don't want a spiritual teacher - they just want their comfortable delusions confirmed. Then the teacher says "as you wish".

Sound familiar?

KPB

As you wish...

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl

Nice!

Of course there won't be growth without putting ones head over the guillotine basket.

And I'm using that metaphor for myself too you know.

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lostgirl

Of course there won't be growth without putting ones head over the guillotine basket.
And I'm using that metaphor for myself too you know.

I don't know, it seems to me that growth comes in having studied all the evidence well enough to stand before the judge (yourself), hear point for point argument of the case, and render a just verdict as to whether "ones head" is worth keeping or not…

("ones head" being a metaphor for one's current personal paradigm)

It seems to me that once you put your head on the chopping block, you are at the mercy of some other "judge", one who may or may not be assessing your case justly…

p.s. I don't think we're off topic here…we are speaking in the realm of mysticism after-all..

KellyPrettyBear

posted on Nov, 25 2013 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl

The rational mind cannot bring one home.

But we need it as an advisor.

lostgirl

posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lostgirl

The rational mind cannot bring one home.

But we need it as an advisor.

Yes, and my rational mind advises me that "putting one's head over the guillotine basket" (even metaphorically speaking) would more likely be a means of ending one's journey, than figuring out how to find the way 'home'

My Experience with "RA" - Yes, this relates to Aliens/UFOs/Mysticism Equally