2 robbers shot by customer, shakes community

Well, if Grandpa has a gun and the cops kick in the wrong door and then kill Grandpa for shooting at the guys in black balaclavas with rifles, then yes, the cops are jackasses and should be in prison.

However, we both know the cops will skip because the DA won't prosecute and the IAD will rubber stamp it at the behest of FOP.

THAT's what gets the comments around here.

opethPA
When the police in New Mexico did what they just did with the body cavity search i said that is horrible and I hope the victim gets some measure of peace.

I hope the cops' qualified immunity is set aside and they are able to be sued in propria persona for everything they have.

That's all you can hope for, because you'll never see criminal charges. The DA will refuse to prosecute, because cops.

I think police unions should get the PATCO treatment. They should not exist.

The citizen acted within the confines of the law. No further scrutiny needs to take place. IMO this should happen more frequently. Considering the dwindling budgets of police forces everywhere, it just may.

Why would someone dare rob someone at gunpoint if they think there is a chance they could get plugged by Joe Schmoe? It like criminals who refuse to do crime because they see the big batman signal in the sky. If they know whats coming, the crime wont happen.

Seems like a good trade off to me.

reply to post by opethPA


Your OP here is the completely illogical.

It literally makes no sense. I really would like to see a case like you describe.

Also.. most cops are bad. It wasn't always that way, but tines have changed. They shoot first justifies or not, the force blood tests and cavity searches, among other corruptions. The other cops cover for them and that makes them bad. Even the ones that dont go that extreme still treat people like criminals and act shady. I know from personal experience, I've never been arrestes or in trouble but I've been treated like garbage and I've seen way too many kids killed for no reason.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by opethPA

 

Your OP here is the completely illogical.

It literally makes no sense. I really would like to see a case like you describe.

Also.. most cops are bad. It wasn't always that way, but tines have changed. They shoot first justifies or not, the force blood tests and cavity searches, among other corruptions. The other cops cover for them and that makes them bad. Even the ones that dont go that extreme still treat people like criminals and act shady. I know from personal experience, I've never been arrestes or in trouble but I've been treated like garbage and I've seen way too many kids killed for no reason.

Please explain to me how my OP is completly illogical?

The only thing that was not related to the crime I was reporting on was ," On the other hand I have to think what if the cops did the exact same thing..if they shot and killed the robbers..The ATS segment that refuses to blame or hold criminals accountable would be in an uproar about the shoot first\ask questions later approach of the police. "


Based on your "most cops are bad" statement you clearly have issues with law enforcement .. At least you didn't point out "they shoot first" like I did in my OP..oh wait..you did.

Smokes and scratch tickets....someone here is right about saving the gene pool, they should have shot themselves as soon as they agreed this was a good plan.

opethPA

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by opethPA

 

Your OP here is the completely illogical.

It literally makes no sense. I really would like to see a case like you describe.

Also.. most cops are bad. It wasn't always that way, but tines have changed. They shoot first justifies or not, the force blood tests and cavity searches, among other corruptions. The other cops cover for them and that makes them bad. Even the ones that dont go that extreme still treat people like criminals and act shady. I know from personal experience, I've never been arrestes or in trouble but I've been treated like garbage and I've seen way too many kids killed for no reason.

Please explain to me how my OP is completly illogical?

The only thing that was not related to the crime I was reporting on was ," On the other hand I have to think what if the cops did the exact same thing..if they shot and killed the robbers..The ATS segment that refuses to blame or hold criminals accountable would be in an uproar about the shoot first\ask questions later approach of the police. "


Based on your "most cops are bad" statement you clearly have issues with law enforcement .. At least you didn't point out "they shoot first" like I did in my OP..oh wait..you did.

If you really wanna throw a loop in your logic, ask yourself why they carried loaded guns, for the store owners, or in case they ran into the cops?



There are many angles to it.

But, in this case (regardless), I am not sure people would disagree with the police if the two drew their guns on them. That is not what has sparked discontent with police, it's when they taser young kids, old people, shoot to kill without even seeing a weapon, etc.

And the kicker, is that even in error they very often get off with a slap on the wrist.

Vortiki
"An armed society, is a polite society" - Mick, Fallout: New Vegas

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life"
- Robert Heinlein, long before Fallout: New Vegas

VortikiIf you knew everyone had a firearm on them, how likely are you to attempt to rob anyone?

Not very, but...
Here's another Heinlein quote:

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

I personally wouldn't want to live with having killed people no matter the circumstance - that is unless killing them was directly preventing other deaths including my own. Once guns were pulled, the choices were made. That's why I will never ever carry a gun, because if you do you may have to choose - I don't.

If an armed society is a polite society, what has happened in the USA's ghetto-style environments, which are supposedly awash with stolen firearms? They don't seem to be acting very polite to each other. Does anyone who feels this is a black on black problem really believe the situation would be different if whites, or any other grouping of people, were placd in the same conditions?

reply to post by schuyler

If someone pulls a gun (in this case two people pulled guns)

You're very quick to accept this, considering it's made far from clear in the news report EXACTLY how these events transpired. One thing was made clear though.

Nestled at the corner of Ninth and Exeter Streets, Krick's had been a frequent target of robbers, neighbors said.

Its owner had had enough. "He's been getting robbed. . . . He's been asking people to stand around to make sure he does not get robbed," said Victor Velazquez Jr., 45. He said the shooting "ended a problem there, [the store owner's] problem of getting robbed. It was justifiable." Read more at www.philly.com...

Was the heroic customer one of these people he'd asked to stand around, and just waiting for someone to test out his marksmanship skills on? His identity has been kept secret, (apparently for his own protection, so, so much for the value of being a confirmed thief killer as a means of revenge deterrence.) so we'll likely never know for sure, but it's a question worth considering when pondering the rights and wrongs of shooting people, not to prevent a crime from happening, but after it's already occurred and there are no injured or dying victims that you know of.

Or, was the shooter right to speculate that they might have already killed someone, and that they might go on to do it again, when he decided to shout "Stop!" with his gun already pointing at his targets?

reply to post by opethPA


When millions are stolen every day by the people in power (and they steal in so many ways ... ), why can't we find a "concerned citizen in his 40s". Ohhh, right, they don't need to use guns to rob everyone ... in fact you better look the other way or else ....

Vortiki
"An armed society, is a polite society" - Mick, Fallout: New Vegas


If you knew everyone had a firearm on them, how likely are you to attempt to rob anyone?

Is America a polite society?
surely an armed society is a violent one, where anybody can shoot you at anytime for any reason.
even the police!

opethPA
On one hand I applaud this citizen and hold true to my stance of people are accountable for their actions. If the robbers never ripped off the store then they would not have been shot.

On the other hand I have to think what if the cops did the exact same thing..if they shot and killed the robbers..The ATS segment that refuses to blame or hold criminals accountable would be in an uproar about the shoot first\ask questions later approach of the police.

No. Nobody on ATS refuses to blame cops for apprehending criminals. you know what people here hate so dont twist it.

there is no other hand here. This is exactly why people should be allowed guns. The citizen did a good thing...robbers drew a gun on him? no question about it...they are where they belong

Saw this floating around on the facebook.

I applaud this guy for doing what he needed to do. He didn't shoot them right away. He said stop, they raised their weapons, he fired before they could. Plain and simple. If you think he was in the wrong because the perps didn't fire first, then you're not aware of how bullets work. The shots he took could've been the shots used against him. The thugs would've gotten away and the concerned citizen would've been dead. The CRIMINALS would've gotten away!

If I was him, I would've done the same thing. He actually said stop, he showed restraint, and when he had to used deadly force, he used it.

Those two boneheads got what was coming to them. If you're going to threaten to use deadly force on another person, expect the same force be applied in return.

I also cant believe the perp's family wants to sue the guy. I have to laugh at that a bit. Its the robbers own fault for being dead. No one forced them to rob the store. No one forced them to use an illegal gun. No one forced them to threaten a CCW holder who tried to hold them until the police arrived.

shooting the robbers dead is totally the perfect solution !they rob some money and cigarettes ! omg ! shout at them and provoke a dangerous situation - feeling like Rambo today ! stop the heist and shoot them dead ! " bravo they got what they deserved ! "

yeah

reply to post by ugie1028


Since when did the word "Stop" become a magical entreaty that made armed criminals act reasonably? Since when has 2 people whose firearms aren't pointing at anyone become a life endangering threat to a person who already has his gun pointing at the aforementioned criminals? Civilians shouldn't be under any kind of obligation to react in such a manner, and bearing in mind the vast majority of gun owners don't have military experience and the ability to respond cooly, and calculatedly when faced by the guns of 2 desperate criminals , it isn't something that should be being encouraged.

Again since the OP I made to every reply in between I have said the following:

1. Only 2 people responsible for this outcome with those two people being the criminals. If they didn't make the wrong choices they did, regardless of if they were stealing food or not like someone earlier mentioned, then this outcome would not have turned out this way.

2. Their have been posts here where specific people on this site have questioned why the police didn't just shoot a criminal in the leg or to disarm vs killing. Where those same few people used that as a platform to rail about all cops are pigs/evil/the devil. So I asked would those same people have the same uproar over a citizen shooting to kill. I never said anywhere people here would question the cops over using their weapons when they had guns drawn on them or when clearly dealing with violent criminals.

As a side note....
Thanks everyone for making this a good post..We all try and put info out there that we see and while we don't all agree what we learn here is only as good as the participation of everyone. I would rather have 30 people arguing with me about something I posted then silence. =)

What the guy did was justfied. I would have done the same (I hope). They were armed robbers and a threat to other lifes.

What I hate to see is those cheering on here. The ones most likley sitting behind there PC waveng there guns and slobbering over this news like ravaged animals hopeing they get to shoot someone.

Quotes like

Restricted
I don't care who shot them just as long as they were shot.

Cleaning up the gene pool one bullet at a time.

Bassago
That pretty much says it all. "Good riddance to bad rubbish" as my mother used to say.

Ect worry me

Fact is 2 people were shot. Justified yes, needed yes. But we shouldnt be cheering.

This is what wrong in my opinion in American gun culture. Its not the guns its the attitude toward them, of getting excited and cheering when they are used. That what causeing you mass shootings, not lack of gun control but the idea they are a flippant tool to be used lightly and solve even light problems in life.

Guns should be treated as a Serious solemn thing that should only be used in the most dire of circumstances (like the incident described).

reply to post by IvanAstikov


He was protecting and serving his community like any outstanding citizen would.

These two criminals got what was coming to them. This guy did the right thing. He stopped them. He had a right to. His community is happy with what he did. How does it feel to defend criminals?

Oh and ever hear of citizens arrest? Perfectly legal to detain someone like he tried to do. your point holds no water what-so-ever.