The True Message Of Christ

reply to post by Joecroft


I believe there are people in this world who want to keep us in the dark. I do not believe the Christian religion was based around mistaken interpretation, I believe it was deliberately misinterpreted by those in power then that misinterpretation turned into the "official" interpretation in order to hide the true meaning.

In my opinion Paul was an agent of those in power hired to deliberately change Jesus' message by mixing it with Jewish and OT tradition.

Rome was not dumb, they knew the truth, they just chose to hide it. They lied to us, they turned Jesus' message of freedom into a message of subservience in my opinion. The first passage of Romans 13 is a perfect example of how and why they did this.

reply to post by Ralphy


I had a long, 4 paragraph reply all typed out, I was finishing typing it and then all of a sudden this wonderful Public Library computer I am on decided to close my internet explorer for no apparent reason with no warning whtasoever,

Anyways,

Love is God, and whoever Loves is doing the will of God,

The problem lies in the fact that man can pervert the meaning of love, what is Love, and what was love to Jesus and love to you and I, may not be love to another, what I mean is some people with severely twisted and perverted views may believe breaking into their neighbors home and molesting them is showing love,

We need to put things into context and learn with a proper Christian understanding of what Love and Jesus Teaching are and what the Bible, the Holy Scriptures are saying,

To do so you need an Orthodox Universal Christian understanding of Scriptures and Tradition,

If you do not have that, you will not have a full embodiment of Truth, Tradition and Doctrine as Scripture teaches,

The Eastern Orthodox Catholic Christian Church teaches Love and Truth in its FULL embodiment, the same unchanged Tradition of Worship that was handed to the Apostles by Jesus Christ, and spread by the Seventy Disciples and the Twelve unto the early Saints, Martyrs and Church Fathers and held fast to unto the current day, and will continue to be taught and held to until the Glorious Coming of Our Lord,

Seek Truth, Love and Wisdom and stop at nothing,

God bless

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


St. Paul the Apostle was just a messenger of His Master, Jesus Christ,

You should hop off the Paul-hate bandwagon and do some research into the Truth of things,

I suggest you look into the Rich Heritage and Tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Christian Church, it is the only Church left on Earth which can literally trace it's roots down through Apostolic Succession, the only other Church on Earth which can even try to claim the same is the Roman Catholic Christian Church, but they broke off from the True Church when they claimed the Pope had ultimate authority, when they changed liturgical traditions handed down by the Fathers, when they added the filioque clause to the Nicene Creed, amongst other Heterodoxies commited by the Magisterium,

Also, always remember what St. John revealed to us by the Holy Spirit in his First Epistle:

1 Jn 4:7-11 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

God bless

reply to post by godlover25


Do you believe being homosexual is a sin? If so, you do not truly love everyone as yourself. Saying you love them then telling them they need to change who they are is not true love, because you don't love them for who they are.

Jesus never would have told a gay person to change who they were, he taught love without bounds, including homosexual love. To say a certain type of love is a sin is to throw out the idea of perfect love.

As your book says, if you do not know perfect love, you do not know God.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If everyone loved each other and did as Jesus taught, heaven would be on Earth. There would be no war, greed, or poverty.

By our very borne human nature, all fall short of the Glory of the Father and Son in a sinful state.

His willing Sacrifice was based upon becoming a Bridge for the sake of our Salvation through Grace- for those of faith and following to Receive the Virtue to cross that Bridge toward the Mansions of Heaven.

I wonder why he doesn't mention his death on the cross?

He did.
Matthew 16:21
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

I agree with your statements about those falling short of his example of love, whether Christian or otherwise..we are all guilty of that my friend.

reply to post by Ralphy

The true message Christ taught was love, he didn't teach the concept of trying to out wit your neighbor to believe your ideology.

The Lamb of God was also the Good Shepard that taught others to follow him in order to do the same in preaching the Gospel and correcting others in a mature, loving way as the Good Spirit is.

reply to post by PrimeLight


If you believe loving others unconditionally, no matter who they are, is impossible, then you are lost. Like I have said before, to know love is to know God, and if you believe unconditional love for everyone is unattainable, you do not know either perfect love nor God.

Preaching that homosexual love is a sin shows that most Christians do not know God in any way. Prefect love is all types of love, homosexual or not.

We do not all fall short of unconditional love. To project your own beliefs onto others is not only unfair, it is intellectually dishonest. I love everyone unconditionally, no matter who they are.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I love everyone unconditionally, no matter who they are.

You misunderstood the context of my post. If you claim that you Love exactly as Christ does, then you are a blatant liar, because we SURELY fall short of such in our sin, wherein he was not made in sin.

You also took my statements regarding homosexuality out of context in furtherance to lay attack, though this is off topic with no desire to discuss or even defend my words to that spirit.

EDIT TO ADD:

Just because you don't believe you can love like Jesus

We can love 'like' Jesus, certainly- however not AS Him in this current fallen state in the flesh. That was my point by my words, so apologies for any confusion drawn.

reply to post by PrimeLight


Just because you don't believe you can love like Jesus did doesn't mean that extends to everyone else. You are projecting your own self-perceived shortcomings onto everyone else. That's not very fair of you.

Matthew 5
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Would Jesus lie and tell us to be something that is not possible? I choose not to think so. He obviously thought we could be made perfect in love, otherwise he wouldn't have told us to do so by following his commandments.

Stop projecting your inadequacies onto others.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Interesting that the original Aramaic translation replaces 'perfect' with 'mature' in that scripture.

"To begin with, let us get a definition of the word. Webster’s dictionary defines “perfect” in many different ways. As an adjective, it is defined as: a) being entirely without fault, b) accurate, c) expert, proficient, d) pure, total, and e) mature. As a verb the definition is: “to bring to final form.” The definitions of the Hebrew and Greek translations of “perfect” are very similar. In the New Testament, the Greek word predominantly used meant “complete” or “mature.” In the Old Testament the Hebrew word, tam, was frequently used. Its definition is unique and means “morally pious.” Another frequently used Hebrew word “shalen” meant, “without defect or blemish.” Based on these definitions we can read and understand the literal truths of the Scriptures."
www.christiandmi.org...

I hope this aids understandings for context of translation, respectfully.

reply to post by PrimeLight


He said to become perfect as our Father in heaven in perfect. You are ignoring the obvious here. Would you equate God as just being "mature" as well? Because Jesus said to be become perfect as the father is perfect.

Not just "be as good as you can be", but be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. The key is him telling us to be like the Father, who is perfect in the literal sense.

Why would he suggest this if it is unattainable? Was he placing a treat on our nose and never expecting us to eat it? Why would he suggest us be perfect if he didn't mean it?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

In Truth, to be ALIKE by an imitation to the Father and Son is still going to be a mere absolutely pale comparison of what they exude by their Manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Our Father requests of us what is possible in the corruptible flesh i.e maturity and a moral piousness demonstrating Virtue as already defined by translation in proper context. Becoming perfect by the way you describe (absolutely faultless) however is simply chasing a pipe dream, where even an impure thought constitutes as sin.

If you can go through that odyssey here on earth toward a 'godhood' in faultless perfection, then please report back to me when you can raise the dead too as so many men on earth have already demonstrated by their condition...Hmmm, something seems amiss, does it not?

I recommend further study of the scriptures regarding our need for a Savior for any opportunity to Mercifully reach the Mansions, for the flesh is under the condition of corruption by it's very nature of being.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one

"And Jesus said unto him, Why call me good? none is good, except one, that is, God."

There are more, though I'd rather you seek the Truth for yourself.

reply to post by PrimeLight


So you are saying that Jesus didn't really mean what he said? You're saying he told us to chase a pipe dream? He was telling us to do the impossible? Why would he do that?

Matthew 19
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Are you telling me that not all things are possible with God? If you know God and he is in your life as you claim, then why is being perfect like the Father impossible? Again, do you believe that not all things are possible with God?

I have already raised someone from the dead, myself, and so have you, many many times before through reincarnation, only you have forgotten who you truly are and have lost understanding.

There are some good responses. Thanks for your input everyone.

I would like to put in my 2 cents about people saying that love is relative to a persons perception of it. This can hold true to a degree but someone that kills and thinks its love truly is delusional. If the golden rule is the measure of love than I highly doubt those that think they kill for love would like to be killed themselves.

My point of this thread was to bring to light that people will get further by helping out their neighbor instead of just speaking to them about a perspective of theology. Inaction plagues humans and the will to care is growing cold. I have been visited recently by several religious people and I had no desire to listen to what they were saying because 1.) I knew they weren't there to truly preach the good message because they were speaking from their minds and not their hearts, 2.) I know there were at my door to stroke their own egos to only feel good about themselves.

Had those people who came to my door wanting to teach about Christ offered to cut my lawn first, I would surely listen to what they had to say after. I would then know that they practice what they preach and I would appreciate them helping out.

ToneDeaf

btw Islam doesn't adhere to bloodlines, nor hierarchies,
or popes which makes islam enemies of the 'elites' as well.
In Islam there is none but the created and the creator.

edit on 31/10/13 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)

I agree that they are against the elites of the west. But Islam (and I exclude Sufi from Islam for this to be correct) has chosen the priests and current idol of what god wants and "what is" true. I cannot go to a Muslim country and use the tools that have been given to humanity to for instance increase the placebo effect a bit with light, since the priests do not want anybody to have gotten more tools from god than themselves and will kill people for witchcraft. And I would call the rulers in Saudi Arabia as much elites as any elites.

The ones who the majority believe knows how to interpret the spiritual knowledge is the ones who decide the agenda. Islam is incredibly caught up in duality against anyone that is not of Islam and kill people over apostasy. Just because I do not want to wear a Muslim garment and be boxed in by priests do not mean I am not a person who believe in god and can receive help from god.

Humanity is stuck in duality. Ego vs ego and grouping against grouping. That is not loving you soul brothers and soul sisters. But it is hard to love something that is stuck in ego (even sometimes demonic) mode. But at least I can love what everyone will be. .

reply to post by LittleByLittle


You didn't answer my question.

reply to post by Ralphy


Nice words bud. Sometimes I think some of us with these beliefs should start our own church, and it would.be so much different than the standard format... Everyone could take a turn at "preaching", or those who wish to anyway. And, well, other than that, anybody else got any ideas for the "perfect church"? I may start one someday! When I was born, or maybe even before, my grandmother said she wanted me to be, or thought I would become, a preacher. In the past few years I have been taking this into consideration, but I would definitely be a different kind of preacher

Thanks again buddy... This message seems obvious, but it needs to be said. It needs to be said much more because there are too many people who think the loudest voices of the so called Christians out there represents all of us who identify with the message of Jesus Christ.

I can identify with Christianity (or what I call "real Christianity", or simply "my Christianity"), but like another poster mentioned, my faith is more akin to a growing tree that is able to accept sustenance from many sources within reach. If it makes sense, it does not matter where it came from. After 2,000 years, it is difficult to know what or who may have been influenced by Christianity or the message of Jesus while developing their philosophies... Of course, if it does not match up with the message of Jesus in some way, it is seriously scrutinized, but all I am saying is that you can learn something from any situation or message. Even if you are not accepting the message, you can still learn from it... You can learn what to watch out for, you can learn why some people stumble along the way and how you might teach them the error of their ways, you can recollect on your own past mistakes nd figure out how you can do better by avoiding certain ways of thinking. Well. Not avoiding them, but recognizing them for what they are and dealing with them accordingly. So we should never close our minds to other ways of thinking. You must be confident that you can hear a new message or philosophy and not be swayed from that which is imports.t to you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So you are saying that Jesus didn't really mean what he said?

If you apply interpretation of that scripture in context, respectfully you would not be posing such questions forth, hence why I recommended previous one take time to study the Gospels in a furtherance if you so will. I will include the verse here that supports my position already outlined. Note the key word being SAVED i.e Divinely rescued by Mercy and Grace, because we can not do that alone via our weakened, corrupted human means.

Matthew 19
23 Then Yeshua said to his talmidim (disciples), “Yes. I tell you that it will be very hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 24 Furthermore, I tell you that it is easier for a camel to pass through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.” 25 When the talmidim heard this they were utterly amazed. “Then who,” they asked, “can be saved?” 26 Yeshua looked at them and said, “Humanly, this is impossible; but with God everything is possible.” 27 Kefa replied, “Look, we have left everything and followed you. So what will we have?” 28 Yeshua said to them, “Yes. I tell you that in the regenerated world, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Isra’el. 29 Everyone who has left houses, brothers, sisters, father, mother, children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times more, and he will obtain eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

So we are to strive to 'follow Him' and eventually overcome evil through our will to bear with Love's offer of Grace, however we must in wisdom recognize our limitations in turn. If it were possible to achieve a 'godhood' here on our own, we would never have required a Saviour, a Sacrifice, nor a Kingdom to Come to 'Regenerate' on our behalf for all the wickedness that has triumphed over our consistent weaknesses in flesh.

The fact that you even are looking into such scripture is a Positive Guidance and I pray you are steered deeper via the Holy Spirit that has nudged you closer to the Word.

Here is a precipice of all things being considered.

Ones idea of right and wrong is much different than your own or even mine for that matter. The fact that the perceptions of Jesus and God's will have been twisted so often over the centuries just further makes those with evil intent become complicit in the hair splitting that is religion.

Do I love God? Sure I do. My belief in him does not waver. Does he love me? I would not be surprised if he didn't after all the sins and perpetual BS that I have done unto others, but that's another story. There is so much that cannot be quantified by humans due to our infantile understanding of each other that there must be a driving force that surrounds us. Call it what you will, I will call it God.

Is God exactly what we take him to be? No. Is the representation of him as Christ to be denied because at the time it may have been possible that we needed a physical representation of God to further our salvation in his light? No.

Ones understanding of God is each to their own. Yet one thing permeates through out the many translations and rewrites of history and biblical account. God is love, Jesus is love. The same message glows throughout the years so we must be able to take this as the initial intent of God's word.

We all fall short of God because we have yet to reach that understanding fully of what we are and what our purpose is as a species and creation set forth to produce a result. Because of this our understanding of true love, Gods love, will become warped and fall shy of the bar set by Jesus.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by godlover25

 

Do you believe being homosexual is a sin? If so, you do not truly love everyone as yourself. Saying you love them then telling them they need to change who they are is not true love, because you don't love them for who they are.

Jesus never would have told a gay person to change who they were, he taught love without bounds, including homosexual love. To say a certain type of love is a sin is to throw out the idea of perfect love.

As your book says, if you do not know perfect love, you do not know God.

edit on 31-10-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

This is a perfect example of someone twisting and manipulating God's word.

Look, 3NL1GHT3N3D1 if you have something to say.....just say it. Are you or do you have homosexual urges from time to time?

God, the father, also known as Yahweh or Jehovah rarely spoke in the Old Testament but one time Jehovah spoke specifically about homosexuality.

GOD said: Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Learn to hate the sin not the sinner.