Indulgences; moral or immoral? How much for a rape Pope Francis?

akushla99
Indulgences fall into the guilt/absolution schema. Confession is another one. Supplicating prayer is another.
You have no need for absolution if you feel no guilt. Religios worldview tells you from the very outset (a wholly flawed concept) that you are born into sin.
Sin-repentance-absolution provides the arena for the game to occur.
Religios love playing this game because it gives them an 'out' - temporarily...snakes and ladders...

Being good, through this system, has lost its purpose...athiest has legitimate grounds to ridicule such a circular system of self-referential, real-life snakes and ladders...and religios that need to 'belong' (ie: teenage angst phase) are welcome to play that childish game...

Indulge me...

Å99

With todays knowledge, one must pity any who believe in the Gods on offer.

Just from a moral perspective. If Christians ever decided to look at the genocidal son murderers morals.

They do not dare as they would have to scrap their immoral double standards and judge their God fairly and he would lose.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
Correct but institutions lying to citizens for cash or other indulgences is a scam and we have laws against those.

1 - The Catholic church doesn't charge cash for indulgences.
2 - Prove that the Catholic church is wrong and that God doesn't like people doing good works or praying to Him to show that they are really sorry and want to make amends. Good luck with that. SInce you can't prove God exists, I think you'll have a rather hard time proving that he doesn't like people doing good things and saying prayers.

FlyersFan

Greatest I am
Correct but institutions lying to citizens for cash or other indulgences is a scam and we have laws against those.

1 - The Catholic church doesn't charge cash for indulgences.
2 - Prove that the Catholic church is wrong and that God doesn't like people doing good works or praying to Him to show that they are really sorry and want to make amends. Good luck with that. SInce you can't prove God exists, I think you'll have a rather hard time proving that he doesn't like people doing good things and saying prayers.

All churches with the collection of tithes are selling indulgences.

Correct. I can no more show that God does not exists than Christians can show that he does, --- which makes the Pope a liar as he could not have negotiated anything with God.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
All churches with the collection of tithes are selling indulgences.

The Catholic Church doesn't tithe. Only certain protestant churches do. Any donation given in the Catholic church is 'free will' and not tied to indulgences. (unless there is some special pronouncement and that doesn't happen much, if ever, anymore)

which makes the Pope a liar as he could not have negotiated anything with God.

Technically .. no.
It would mean that he can't prove that he has negotiated anything with God.
That doesn't mean he hasn't.

Also - there isn't any 'negotiation' that would have happened. According to their faith, he indeed can call for indulgences in the faith and that heaven will acknowledge them. Matthew 16:18 gives him that authority. No negotiations required. He's got full authority.

(which you obviously interpret differently).

So because the bible says so, it is true.

Give your head a shake.

I can say what I say is also true because I said it.

That is what you are saying your book of myths is saying.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
So because the bible says so, it is true.

Nope. But THEY believe it's true. They don't 'negotiate with God'. They believe that Matthew 16:18-19 gives the pope the authority to make pronouncements on matters of faith and that heaven will honor them.

And as I said .. it's all internal church stuff anyways. It has nothing to do with secular laws or 'getting away with rape' or anything like that. It's just people doing good things and saying prayers because they believe it will lessen their purgatory time. That's it.

It's not much different from a Buddhist or Hindu who tries to work off their bad karma by doing good things and saying prayers.

I usually like to read your threads. They can be very thought provoking.
But sorry, Greatest I am, you just missed on this one.

FlyersFan

Greatest I am
So because the bible says so, it is true.

Nope. But THEY believe it's true. They don't 'negotiate with God'. They believe that Matthew 16:18-19 gives the pope the authority to make pronouncements on matters of faith and that heaven will honor them.

And as I said .. it's all internal church stuff anyways. It has nothing to do with secular laws or 'getting away with rape' or anything like that. It's just people doing good things and saying prayers because they believe it will lessen their purgatory time. That's it.

It's not much different from a Buddhist or Hindu who tries to work off their bad karma by doing good things and saying prayers.

I usually like to read your threads. They can be very thought provoking.
But sorry, Greatest I am, you just missed on this one.

Try googling to see just what the church was forgiving and promising in it's immoral offer of indulgences.

Martin Luther was strange but in his vies of indulgences and their immorality he was right on the mark.

Regards
DL