WAR: Military to Investigate Marine Shooting Video

The U.S. Military announced that it will launch an investigation into footage that shows an American Marine shoot a wounded Iraqi prisoner. The footage was shot by an NBC Pool correspondent inside a Mosque in the war-torn Iraqi city of Fallujah last week.




The incident has drawn harsh criticism from Muslim leaders in the region as well as the international press. A day earlier the same US Marine unit came under sustained fire from the same Mosque and were tasked with putting down the localised insurgency. The raid killed 10 Iraqi's and wounded 5 others. It was also reported that the Marine raid on the Mosque had caused the death of a soldier who was checking if the wounded fighters were dead, it is believed he was ambushed by them.

The Third Geneva Convention, the section of the 1949 treaty that applies to prisoners of war, says "persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat (out of combat) by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely."

Critics argue that this is a clear breach of the Geneva convention which affords protection to prisoners of war in all situations and states that prisoners should be treated for their injuries regardless of their enemy combatant status.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Nerdling]

what would you have done? You're fighting a war, there are terrorists in a mosque shooting at you that want to end your life. These Islamic insurgents have, in the past, feigned death in order to lure American soldiers closer. They would then open fire, or they would detonate a bomb hidden in their clothes. It's judgment call, to be sure. I wasn't there, so I can't really judge if the Marine acted correctly. But I do think that these terrorists have systematically and maliciously violated almost every war rule, even waving white flags and then shooting. What if this guy thought the terrorist was booby trapped. This terrorist was probably shooting at him from the mosque the day before. Damn, give these soldiers the benefit of the doubt. I say the burden of proof to make this a war crime WILL NOT BE MET when it is all said and done! God bless our troops.

In any case, it is the soldier who allegedly violated the Geneva agreement, not the country. Additionally, you don't know someone is unarmed unless you strip them naked. Just because he appeared unarmed does not mean that he didn't pose a threat to American lives.

Zip

As a previous poster has already said. These people have violated just about every rule in the book.....so I don't blame the Marine at all.
Tho I do understand that he probably should NOT have shot him.

Yes, one has to aplaud the cojones of the armchair Generals. Sitting behind thier computers secont guessing a soilder in a war zone, fighting an irreqular enemy in a urban environment.

There will be an investigation, If hes guilty he will face a court martial. Period

The marine did make a mistake - he shot the guy while a TV crew filmed it!

My question is:

When is a combatant sufficiently disabled to put him in a position where he is free from additional aggression? There's nothing wrong with putting 60 bullets into a guy charging at you with a gun, even if the first one blew out the back of his skull, killing him. How is a soldier supposed to know when to take his finger off the trigger? When, officially, are the wounded considered to be non-threatening? Is it related to their ability to operate weapons systems?

Further, if this guy was laying on the ground gasping for breath 5 minutes after being shot to hell by US soldiers and the operation is ongoing and it's looking like there's no chance a medic is going to get to this guy before he chokes on blood bubbles and dies in the next 10 minutes is it okay to put a round in his brain to end his suffering?

I know the descriptions here are pretty graphic, but one must consider the stresses, and even the visual images soldiers are confronted with as they determine when to pull the trigger and when not to.

Did you see the miniseries shown of TV this past year? There was more than one episode where German soliders where killed either surrendering or in captivity. Right or wrong this happens during a declared or undeclared war.

If it was the US Marine in that situation being shot i can tell you the Mid East would be most likley cheering in the streets

Intresting how the "Political" West sends people to fight their own wars but when something they dont like to see (or it appears on the Media) happens everyone whos been fighting their wars for them get skrewed over

This thread confirms, once again, like the Abu Graib scandal and the
US atrocities in Vietnam and elsewhere, that for all of the US's public claims of occupying the moral high ground, we really have no legitimate claim to it.

Everyone's sorry because this act was caught on video and publicized. Kill the messenger. This is no different than the thief who gets caught and pleads that it's the first time he ever stole anything. In reality, it's just the first time he was caught. That's right, investigate the SOB who had the audacity to catch this on film and pass it on. Just like the SOB who filed the flag draped coffins of dead US soldiers being loaded onto a military transport plane. Those SOBs were fired and vilified. Can't be spreading the truth, now. That's dangerous to the war effort!

Same applies here. No question but that these U.S. soldiers are in the toughest situation they've ever had to deal with, ande very inexperienced in what to do under these horrrific circumstances. Those men have to be on guard every second and probably feel that the only safe thing to do is kill every Iraqi within range of armed bullet, armed or not. It's hard to say what any of us would do under the same circumstances, especially if we'd witnessed or heard of one or more of our fellows killed by an Iraqi who was feigning injury.

Bottom line is we should not be there.

I say the remaining four wounded should have received the same treatment.

We are fighting an enemy that cares not for the Geneva convention so we should not be bound to it either. We have an enemy that is booby-trapping bodies that are placed hors de combat. We have an enemy that will wave the white flag of surrender and then open fire.

Should this guy have been patched up shipped to guantanamo where some activist judge declare he must be released so that he can try to kill more people?

Bottom line is this is a war against an uncivilized enemy and half of them don't know what the Geneva Convention is. It is like fighting back a pack of hiena's and expecting them to play by the rules.

Give me a break.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by BlackJackal]

Its war! Politicians make laws that somehow soldiers are suppose to abide by, war cannot follow laws. War is hell, and there is no laws in hell. I don't blame the soldier one bit, I think we should blame the circumstances, enviroment, Osama Bin Laden, terrorists, politicians, and military planning.

Originally posted by Crash
If it was the US Marine in that situation being shot i can tell you the Mid East would be most likley cheering in the streets

And if it had been a marine in captivity and they shot him, we would be the ones to complain and say how they are not following the Geneva Convention. Either way this is just another wasted life and another way for one or more sides to get compassion. We will of course use one side that favors us in each situation and so will the other side.

Originally posted by flycatch
Did you see the miniseries shown of TV this past year? There was more than one episode where German soliders where killed either surrendering or in captivity. Right or wrong this happens during a declared or undeclared war.

Captain Speirs: " To be a good soldier, you must know you're already dead."

This Marine in question had just been wounded and a comrade killed the day before by a booby-trapped body of an insurgent.

Insurgents have already displayed deception by initially waving the flag of truce then open firing on advancing troops unaware of this deception.

Not Guilty War is Hell!

P.S. Praise should be given to our Marines (and other members of our Armed Forces) for their courage in the face of their ordeal!

[edit on 16/11/04 by Intelearthling]

www.ogrish.com...


Here is a link to a copy of the video that seems to be edited by a German network... hard to see exactly what happens, but it doesn't seem to be anything like those beheading videos I've been seeing.

Originally posted by Nerdling
It was also reported that the Marine raid on the Mosque had caused the death of a soldier who was checking if the wounded fighters were dead, it is believed he was ambushed by them.

Seeing as how another Marine had died under similar circumstances the day before, perhaps there is a connection.

Folks, chances are that if we don't say something is clearly unacceptable conduct by the standards that the international community, we loose the ability to lead through respect and trust.

This is wrong by every standard. The US is too strong and too good a country to need to justify a clear breach of the basic international standars. It is extremely dangerous to blow through those boundaries.

Wrong by every standard? It's the accepted practice by all troops in an assault. You don't have the manpower to leave with prisoners, so you shoot them. Thats been the accepted standard of all armies since the War Between the States [American Civil War].Times have changed wounded and dead are booby traped. womwn and children carry bombs,It's more dangerous today than it was in WWII. Yes it's wrong by all "christian" standards. But what are you going to do? Let some kill You. Turn the other cheek.. another "christian" standard. Most of the eastern world doesn' think this way. Read History .Get Real.

This marine made absolutely the right decision under the circumstances. Blame the insurgents for using these types of ambush tactics. Here� I�ll give YOU a gun and have some fanatic lay down in front of you. Now, you decide�QUICKLY..QUICKLY..he�s moving!!!

Do you shoot him or do you wait and see if he�s just wounded?? Oh yeah by the way, your neighbor was just shot in his front yard yesterday when he made the decision to wait.

What will YOU do�


�you�ll shoot�just like the marine did.

�War is Hell� is not just some clich� folks.

There are rules of engagement that every civilized nation preserves. And shooting wounded men defending their mosque isn�t tolerated by any means. And it�s a pure excuse to say it�s about manpower..you have 30 soldiers to 1 iraqi men in fallujah...
-ap