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Obama Shutdown Spreads to D-Day Beaches of Normandy & Cemeteries

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posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Well, I guess I'll just say that whatever formulas they use to calculate all this on whose position is necessary and whose is not, especially where, as I noted? Volunteers would very willingly stand in place for the time being to keep things open? They need new formulas and maybe throw the guys overboard who came up with these ones.


Currently, 400,000 of the department’s 800,000 civilian workers are being furloughed. Hagel said he couldn’t estimate how many people might be reclassified as essential or when they might be summoned back to work, but he called the effort a priority.

Government attorneys are checking “to see if there’s any margin here or widening in the interpretation of the law,” Hagel told reporters in South Korea, where he was in the midst of a three-day visit. “Our lawyers believe that maybe we can expand the exempt status. We don’t know if that’s the case, but we are exploring that.”
Source

It's not like it just happens and a computer is to blame, after all. Someone, somewhere, chose to either check the column on those specific workers as essential or non-essential. Someone had to, even if it was setting it to default as non-essential. That someone was almost certainly on the Exec side to micromanage down to that level.

Exec is under direct command of the President from the Attorney General down to the guy working a no name position at Labor Stats. I know Obama can't directly call workers or people down into the DOD, but there are definitely well established ways for him to use what is there to make his wishes happen from the top down to that point. It's why he is the Commander and Chief.

If he can send troops to train foreign fighters and he can send planes and drones to bomb nations we aren't even at official conflict with ..he can absolutely order up some labor for Cemeteries if he were of a mind to make it a personal priority.

Rank has it's privileges, and he outranks everyone, eh? He chooses not to act.




posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You're looking at it on an emotional level. On a realistic level, why should a groundskeeper be deemed essential, when instructors at a military academy be deemed non-essential? I'm sorry, but while a cemetery should be open, I would rather see them still teaching at the academy so the next generation of military officers gets taught right, instead of missing classes. It makes a great emotional argument, but on a realistic note, there are other things that are more important than keeping the Normandy Memorial open.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 10:51 PM
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Basic civics here, but ummmm the president is in the executive branch, congress has the power of the purse. so ummm yea thats their fault. For more about how US government works and the branches of government read here:
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 10:59 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by IAMTAT
 


How are a cemetery and memorial more essential than things like the FAA? One third of the FAA has been declared non-essential and furloughed, military academies are canceling classes and events, but we should keep a cemetery in France open as essential? Seriously?


Don't worry we are still working in the FAA. Sending home assistants and program specialists are not a big deal. The cream of the crop is still working; technicians and air traffic controllers.

That said, these obscure shutdowns have done nothing to stem or keep anyone on the job so they are in effect, looking punitive in nature. In politics, perception is everything and barring open aired monuments is just silly. Why not just post a sign "At your own risk"? Or is that too much personal responsibility and people might like it?

That last part wasn't directed at you Zap; more a general question.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


Oh, I know most of the FAA is working, but they were the first agency that popped into my head that I knew were facing a large number of furloughs.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:05 PM
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To be honest, I'd be a lot more concerned about the fact that the FAA registration office in Oklahoma City is closed, delaying the delivery of new aircraft (it could delay up to $1.4B in aircraft if this goes on). Or the fact that the NTSB Go Team investigating the crash of the CJ2+ business jet in California was pulled back, because only three investigators are still working.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


One Star well deserved, our Uncle was killed in Normandy on D-Day and only a few years back did one relative manage to visit the War Grave, other relatives had died by then. Anyway the War Grave Visitor, my cousin, brought back a few ounces of soil that we sprinkled, a few grams at a time, upon the Homeland graves of our Late Uncles Family. War does not care about the living relatives of Servicemen / Women. The annual Memorial is a Joke and for many years Widoe's were denied the right to attend such. One UK Politician, MP ed ball, actually laid a wreath at the London memorial stone, and he then claimed £33.00p expenses for such.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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Zaphod58
To be honest, I'd be a lot more concerned about the fact that the FAA registration office in Oklahoma City is closed, delaying the delivery of new aircraft (it could delay up to $1.4B in aircraft if this goes on). Or the fact that the NTSB Go Team investigating the crash of the CJ2+ business jet in California was pulled back, because only three investigators are still working.


Yes that is a bit disconcerting. FSDO guys were short before this mess and now they are completely limited. Those aspects are a concern but it opens the prospects that maybe State inspectors or private inspectors would be better no?



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


I'm always torn on private or state inspectors. On the one hand, they're not going to fall under the government budget, so something like this wouldn't affect them. But at the same time, they're not technically under the government.

If done right, I think they'd be a good idea, the problem is making sure that it is done right, and has the proper oversight.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


I'm always torn on private or state inspectors. On the one hand, they're not going to fall under the government budget, so something like this wouldn't affect them. But at the same time, they're not technically under the government.

If done right, I think they'd be a good idea, the problem is making sure that it is done right, and has the proper oversight.


Me to but we have many private institutions that fall under a public commission; utilities for one. Nothing will be perfect and I, along with you I am sure, can highlight many times that our government FAA employees have pencil whipped or let things go.

I completely agree though in the torn aspect as it would have to be done right. I hope for the day so I can open up shop and do what I love to do fixing radar, radios, automation systems, etc.



posted on Oct, 3 2013 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


Yeah, if that happens, I'm so finishing my certifications, and setting up a shop how *I* want it run, without the union BS.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by IAMTAT
 


For starters, this isn't the 'Barrack Obama Shutdown', its congress and more importantly BOTH PARTIES!

but again on ATS people use any possible excuse to lump the worlds problems since 1800 at Obama's feet.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 04:29 AM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You're looking at it on an emotional level. On a realistic level, why should a groundskeeper be deemed essential, when instructors at a military academy be deemed non-essential? I'm sorry, but while a cemetery should be open, I would rather see them still teaching at the academy so the next generation of military officers gets taught right, instead of missing classes. It makes a great emotional argument, but on a realistic note, there are other things that are more important than keeping the Normandy Memorial open.


Actually, I'm looking at this as maintaining some very basic levels and standards of decorum and priority as a nation to something beyond money and political expedeiency as important values.

We don't give two hoots for the young ...unless it's profitable. That crap attitude runs from the schools to society in general. Doing right by kids isn't worth the punch line to a joke...unless it's profitable to someone. Screw the kids otherwise. We see it everyday.

The same can be said for the elderly and that's getting worse quick. Obamacare is quickly going to make it a whole lot easier to just die quietly as an older American than suffer the humiliation of Uncle Obama's 'beg for your life' heath care game.

.......so we crap on the very young. We crap on the very old. That's 2 out of 3 so far on the points a society can be judged on for it's worth to exist in general historical terms. 3? Awww... There is the cherry on the cupcake. We crap on our ancestors and war dead.

..............and in that, our fall for placing importance on abstract things for value is about complete. If it isn't profitable to us? Screw it entirely is the attitude. Right down to the men who gave everything they had to give ...so we wouldn't be speaking German and saluting some punk with a funny mustache every morning.

Sorry... Watching this piece of human trash we have in the White House almost laughingly shirk his duties as the head of this nation's armed forces makes me want to puke. I'm just as sick of this pretender as I've ever been and as disgusted by the "man" as I can be. When I thought he couldn't go lower for abdicating his duty? Oh hell...He has whole levels yet to go to get to the bottom HE is capable of.


We elected a President ..and we got a punk off the ghetto street with no respect, consideration or value to tradition or the basics that define culture and national identity. It's all just so much B.S. to this "man".

I'm not emotional at all. I'm cold. Extremely cold on this...and absolutely beyond tolerance for the sad sad show playing daily from 1600 Penn Ave.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 04:43 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Where you see a punk in the White House who is apparently singlehandedly responsible for all our problems, I see a system that failed. If you don't like the current system, find a way to work to change it. But I'm sorry, a cemetery, while important, is not necessary to running the country. An NTSB Go Team on an active investigation for example, or the thousands of employees that aren't getting paid and have families to support should be our priority. The dead are beyond caring, and while it will hurt their families to not be able to visit for now, don't you think taking care of the living is more important?



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 04:58 AM
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Zaphod58
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Where you see a punk in the White House who is apparently singlehandedly responsible for all our problems, I see a system that failed. If you don't like the current system, find a way to work to change it. But I'm sorry, a cemetery, while important, is not necessary to running the country. An NTSB Go Team on an active investigation for example, or the thousands of employees that aren't getting paid and have families to support should be our priority. The dead are beyond caring, and while it will hurt their families to not be able to visit for now, don't you think taking care of the living is more important?


Yes, I do think the living take priority over the dead. We don't have cemeteries for the dead and we never have. We have cemeteries for the living, not the bodies of those who can no longer care. It's for our sense of right and value to our heritage and our past. These things meant something...until recently. They defined who we were...until recently. They made the difference between a banana republic with military force ...and America with with at least an outward appearance of sound judgement and deep tradition to guide our actions.

All that seems about dead on arrival these days. Values? What values... You mean literally training Al Qaeda street fighters? Those values? We don't reach this gutter of having no values by accident or overnight. It takes a thousand little failures and acts of disrespect to what matters to crash a nation.

Little things like this..... Like crapping on our Battlefields and Cemeteries when, in past times? It may not have mattered THIS much. In past times, we weren't engaged in a shooting war (Damn..so many forget we ARE still in a SHOOTING WAR right now..as we speak). In past times? We didn't have a Commander and Chief that would pull a stunt like THIS:



I'm being kind to call that excuse for a man, a punk. He deserves a stronger description, but T&C prevents it. I've watched a nation I love with every fiber of my being ..taken apart for what means anything...one tradition and one small aspect at a time now for several years.

This just made one insult beyond tolerance for being polite about how sick of it I've become. Respect for tradition and our heritage, as I'm sure you well know, has FAR more to do with intangible things than the actions of the immediate moment.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by IAMTAT
 


that's pretty poor from a president, kinda of speechless.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I'm well aware of what cemeteries are for. Just as you're well aware of the point I was trying to make. But you're right, reopen the cemeteries, and leave the furloughed workers out of a job, and forget about their families. Honoring the dead is more important than they are. Letting their families visit their graves is more important than the hundreds of thousands of people that don't know when their next paycheck is coming, or when they're going to have a job again, or how they're going to support their family until they do have a job again.

You are right, Obama deserves to be called every name in the book, and he's solely responsible for what has happened to this country. The rest of Washington hasn't done anything but follow his lead. If it wasn't for him this wouldn't be an issue, and all those people wouldn't have to worry about it.

Let's start a petition demanding that they allocate a budget to reopen the cemeteries, while we ignore what's happening to everyone else.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


(sigh) If we look at Military and National Cemeteries as just a spot of land to stuff dead bodies for a place to plant a flower once or twice a year... Okay.. Cool. Then I guess it's worthless for more than storage of dead bodies. I think of my Father's resting place near here, in a National cemetery...as more than just a hole in the ground we dumped his ashes to be done with it.

I also see the United States Flag as more than something to mutter obscenities about under the breath of the First Lady ..in full view of the world press to record her obscene mutterings. ...As just one other example of how we've died by a thousand failures of value to anything.

I think we're just looking at this radically different. You're right in looking at "What MUST be turned back on in (looks at watch) the next 10 hours on this Friday in October". Yes... That is a distinct list with distinct priorities. If we're the plumbers looking to fix the pipes of the house, we don't wonder how they got full of crap to start with...and I understand that.

I'm looking at this more from a large perspective of how Society can be seen failing so quickly we can watch it as it occurs. It's an amazing thing and it'd be wondrous to see ...if ANYONE ELSE'S nation were the one falling like a rock off a cliff. It WAS wondrous to see when I watched the Soviet Union fall like this.

They also came to crap on tradition at the end. Those little things were among the last to go before they outright fell into ruins and pages of history. The last little details to be thrown to the side as so much worthless sentiment.

I suppose I've become sensitive to these things...because they ARE, as we saw, some of the last signs to go as a society falls apart.

When everything must have tangible value to be valuable in considering? We have no value left as a society, IMO.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


ATS Thread -Democrats Shut Down the Government
There ya go. Explains everything.



posted on Oct, 4 2013 @ 09:14 AM
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It's not the OBAMA shutdown; it was done by the Republicans in Congress. You can thank them.

You'd blame the POTUS if your son got a B in arithmatic (assuming you have a son).





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