Lets think about it for a moment...

This video got me thinking about how I would react if on around the 17th of September 2001 someone told me that, in 2013 our government would consider arming rebels in Syria to overthrow the Assad regime knowing that amongst these rebels are Al-Qaeda fighters?

I don't know about you, but I would most likely dismiss whoever said it, and consider that person to be someone who doesn't like America very much.

Here's something to contemplate for a while...

Stefan Molyneux discusses the twelve year anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks and examines the absurdity of the United States president supporting Al-Qaeda to overthrow the president of Syria. It's time to take a stand now. Stefan Molyneux discusses the twelve year anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks and examines the absurdity of the United States president supporting Al-Qaeda to overthrow the president of Syria. It's time to take a stand now.

whatsecret
This video got me thinking about how I would react if on around the 17th of September 2001 someone told me that, in 2013 our government would consider arming rebels in Syria to overthrow the Assad regime knowing that amongst these rebels are Al-Qaeda fighters?

I don't know about you, but I would most likely dismiss whoever said it, and consider that person to be someone who doesn't like America very much.

Here's something to contemplate for a while...

Stefan Molyneux discusses the twelve year anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks and examines the absurdity of the United States president supporting Al-Qaeda to overthrow the president of Syria. It's time to take a stand now. Stefan Molyneux discusses the twelve year anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks and examines the absurdity of the United States president supporting Al-Qaeda to overthrow the president of Syria. It's time to take a stand now.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend... Lol

We use who is necessary at the time, no matter who it is. We can always crush them later, come on get with the program lol.

The Bot

dlbott


The enemy of my enemy is my friend... Lol

We use who is necessary at the time, no matter who it is. We can always crush them later, come on get with the program lol.

The Bot

This program has been proven to be very successful..

P.S. I know you are being sarcastic. (I think?)

Bush was right - they do hate us for our freedoms.
What he didn't say was who "they" were.
Turns out "they" were some in our government.
If they thought they could turn around and arm Al Qaeda and the American populace would just go along with it their arrogance and hubris have reached astronomical heights.

I can't tolerate Stefan Molyneux so I guess I'll pass on the video.

But Bush saying 'they hate us for our freedoms' was a new low even for him. I think I've been doing a slow burn for the last 12 years over that and 'you're either with us or with the terrorists';

This is NOT how a leader talks

This is NOT how a leader thinks.

This is how sociopathic, psychopathic lizards of one ilk or another, whether bloodline or bank lineage, talk and think.

Our forefathers met together in a tavern's back room, smoked hemp and drank ale and figured out how to defeat the world's greatest standing army and a King.

We have to figure out how to defeat a few hundred incredibly wealthy and shadowy families, and the few, very few, people in the military who would take orders from them.

Start first by telling everyone you know who is in the military the importance of disobeying illegal, unconstitutional orders, and encouraging everyone else to never, ever join.

Is it just me or does it seem that 'Man The Ramparts!' and 'Storm the Bastille' is echoing somewhere in the air lately?

signalfire

Start first by telling everyone you know who is in the military the importance of disobeying illegal, unconstitutional orders, and encouraging everyone else to never, ever join.

There is training on this already in place. The not joining bit, the exodus of members leaving (their choice or not) are spreading that info.

We have to figure out how to defeat a few hundred incredibly wealthy and shadowy families, and the few, very few, people in the military who would take orders from them.

You don't know the half of it. The secret war that started in the basement of the White House on the eve of September 11th is far more reaching than you could ever dream. Anytime someone starts calling government officials 'psychopaths' and telling solders to disobey orders they are right where they need to be-all wrapped up in their own cocoon of insecurity and cowardliness.

Our forefathers met together in a tavern's back room, smoked hemp and drank ale and figured out how to defeat the world's greatest standing army and a King.

Yes, they did, and they also had slaves, hung people out of fright of the unknown and were a terrorist insurgency. The beans that special agent Snowden spilled are a drop in the bucket to how this secret war progresses each and everyday and it's ability to track the uninformed as they spew hatred of America. I prefer, to stay on the side of the winners and will do whatever my country ask of me rather than try to get attention by calling our leaders mentally ill that only feeds their own delusions.

Is this secret war that started with patriots who wanted revenge for the deaths of innocent civilians and still expands daily legal? Perhaps not, however I could really care less because I know which side I am on and that side is the side of the winners-the American people who are sick and tired of those at the bottom of the food chain constantly complying that life gave them a raw deal.

Just like the post said anyone born into money is evil because they were born into the masses and to lazy to make their way out.

Asktheanimals
If they thought they could turn around and arm Al Qaeda and the American populace would just go along with it their arrogance and hubris have reached astronomical heights.

They were wrapped in arrogance and hubris yesterday. Today, they hold our nation in the deathgrip of Orwell's groupthink-of-the-moment, which will be distinctly different from the groupthink 30 minutes from now.

There is but one way to free ourselves of this cancer.

spooky24
I prefer, to stay on the side of the winners and will do whatever my country ask of me rather than try to get attention by calling our leaders mentally ill that only feeds their own delusions.

Some of our leaders are indeed mentally ill. Some are quite simply evil. I think most are simply criminal.

I''ve been reading lately about one ex-president that has been accused of rape and molesting women over the last 30 years. Apparently, one of those women received an $850,000 payoff. This particular president has been in been with the CIA for many decades -- much like the "president" in the White House today.

When the # hits the fan, just make sure you get in the correct line with your heros. The line that leads to trial-and-prison or .......

spooky24

We have to figure out how to defeat a few hundred incredibly wealthy and shadowy families, and the few, very few, people in the military who would take orders from them.

You don't know the half of it. The secret war that started in the basement of the White House on the eve of September 11th is far more reaching than you could ever dream. Anytime someone starts calling government officials 'psychopaths' and telling solders to disobey orders they are right where they need to be-all wrapped up in their own cocoon of insecurity and cowardliness.

Our forefathers met together in a tavern's back room, smoked hemp and drank ale and figured out how to defeat the world's greatest standing army and a King.

Yes, they did, and they also had slaves, hung people out of fright of the unknown and were a terrorist insurgency. The beans that special agent Snowden spilled are a drop in the bucket to how this secret war progresses each and everyday and it's ability to track the uninformed as they spew hatred of America. I prefer, to stay on the side of the winners and will do whatever my country ask of me rather than try to get attention by calling our leaders mentally ill that only feeds their own delusions.

Is this secret war that started with patriots who wanted revenge for the deaths of innocent civilians and still expands daily legal? Perhaps not, however I could really care less because I know which side I am on and that side is the side of the winners-the American people who are sick and tired of those at the bottom of the food chain constantly complying that life gave them a raw deal.

Just like the post said anyone born into money is evil because they were born into the masses and to lazy to make their way out.

I don't know WHO you are, or WHAT you are, but you contradict yourself several times in this un-proofread weird diatribe.

Apparently you think the Founding Fathers were 'terrorists' and you want to be on the side of the 'winners' even if it means participating in illegal wars.

Got it.

signalfire

spooky24

We have to figure out how to defeat a few hundred incredibly wealthy and shadowy families, and the few, very few, people in the military who would take orders from them.

You don't know the half of it. The secret war that started in the basement of the White House on the eve of September 11th is far more reaching than you could ever dream. Anytime someone starts calling government officials 'psychopaths' and telling solders to disobey orders they are right where they need to be-all wrapped up in their own cocoon of insecurity and cowardliness.

Our forefathers met together in a tavern's back room, smoked hemp and drank ale and figured out how to defeat the world's greatest standing army and a King.

Yes, they did, and they also had slaves, hung people out of fright of the unknown and were a terrorist insurgency. The beans that special agent Snowden spilled are a drop in the bucket to how this secret war progresses each and everyday and it's ability to track the uninformed as they spew hatred of America. I prefer, to stay on the side of the winners and will do whatever my country ask of me rather than try to get attention by calling our leaders mentally ill that only feeds their own delusions.

Is this secret war that started with patriots who wanted revenge for the deaths of innocent civilians and still expands daily legal? Perhaps not, however I could really care less because I know which side I am on and that side is the side of the winners-the American people who are sick and tired of those at the bottom of the food chain constantly complying that life gave them a raw deal.

Just like the post said anyone born into money is evil because they were born into the masses and to lazy to make their way out.

I don't know WHO you are, or WHAT you are, but you contradict yourself several times in this un-proofread weird diatribe.

Apparently you think the Founding Fathers were 'terrorists' and you want to be on the side of the 'winners' even if it means participating in illegal wars.

Got it.

He got a little off track but his basic premise is basically true. People take for granted our freedoms, we are not taught the nasty details. What he said is true, they were slave owners, had hung people, one considered today to possibly be serial killer, had several unsavory businesses. These and others quite true.

It is why some find our county and rights ironic or as they would say it, hypocritical. Not me mind you.

Yea they were not perfect but what they created was. I say was because I think it has been hijacked by the very politicians sent there to serve.

Anyway, that is what he was trying to say and his history is correct.

The Bot

reply to post by spooky24

I prefer, to stay on the side of the winners and will do whatever my country ask of me rather than try to get attention by calling our leaders mentally ill that only feeds their own delusions.

Who are the winners is the big question. I see our leaders as pretty successful even though some of them are mentally ill. Look at Hank Johnson, he is serving as Representative for Georgia since 2007. He is also the person who said that he feared that stationing 8,000 Marines on Guam would cause the island to "become so overly populated that it might tip over". Obviously he is not very bright, yet he succeeded becoming a US Representative.

By definition he is a winner, would you take the side of a man who thinks islands are floating in the ocean like boats? Would you do anything just to be on the winning side no matter who the winners are?

So I ask you, who are the winners in this war on terror?

To further that thought The America revolution began with minutemen of civilian clothier attacking uniformed British solders with hit and run tacit of gorilla warfare in order to spread fear and terror. That makes them terrorist and a partisan insurgency. They assuredly knew the risk of such tactics and faced the hangman's noose with courage and sacrifice for the freedom of the nation.

Recently I was ask, after a person watched the Frontline documentary on America's secret war after 9/11, if all that was really true. I replied absolutely true however some of the gritter details were left out. They hinted but failed to disclose completely the CIA's infamous SSU or Strategic Situation Unit that were proud representatives of their forebears in an acronymic way. Known as doormen they busted down the doors of suspected terrorist in the middle of the night, killed everyone there and grabbed what ever intelligence they could find then, as Tenet so poetically described it, left a trail of dust into the middle of the night.

That, is warfare and everyone knew (with exception of the previous poster) that things would never be the same in America after 9/11 . It was President Bush who issued the order that the CIA, not the military, would be the main payback team in Afghanistan with the words "You are either with us or your not". Chief of staff Andy Card issued the infamous Bush quote to the Pakistan government that you give us what we want or "we will bomb you back to the stone age"

You see freedom is earned with courage and commitment, and as the minutemen knew, you are putting your life on the line for what you believe in. I do tire of the constant whine of pity me, pity me because you weren't born into a wealthy family. The government is evil na, na ,na.

Perhaps, Sharpton was correct when he described the plight of America, and that of the world, are problematic because of one reason--The Wealthy Southern White Man. Their perversion, or pervade of hate and of evil that shackles his race with their war talk and their patriotism that hides the old ways of the south that they cherish. And don't forget those who have family roots in Bavaria that is the special touch that means so much

I guess if the shoe fits I'll wear it and if you want to walk around barefoot and trash America you are going to be corrected. Simple enough?

reply to post by spooky24


I don't even know what you ranting about. How can you justify arming the people who you say surprised us on the morning of 9/11 with four Boeing's up our as$es killing 3000 innocent people? These are the same people that you said hate us for our freedom and are continuously training and conspiring to kill us anywhere in the world. These are the people who declared war on us, and because of these people we are giving up the very same freedom that you said they hate us for. These are the people that go to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill our young patriots.

First tell me how you justify even considering giving these people weapons to fight a foreign dictator that has nothing to do with us? And then tell me who is winning the war on terror? And whose side are you on?

America sacrificed thousands of their children to fight al-Qaeda. Whose side are you on?

signalfire
I can't tolerate Stefan Molyneux so I guess I'll pass on the video.

But Bush saying 'they hate us for our freedoms' was a new low even for him. I think I've been doing a slow burn for the last 12 years over that and 'you're either with us or with the terrorists';

This is NOT how a leader talks

This is NOT how a leader thinks.

This is how sociopathic, psychopathic lizards of one ilk or another, whether bloodline or bank lineage, talk and think.

Our forefathers met together in a tavern's back room, smoked hemp and drank ale and figured out how to defeat the world's greatest standing army and a King.

We have to figure out how to defeat a few hundred incredibly wealthy and shadowy families, and the few, very few, people in the military who would take orders from them.

Start first by telling everyone you know who is in the military the importance of disobeying illegal, unconstitutional orders, and encouraging everyone else to never, ever join.

Is it just me or does it seem that 'Man The Ramparts!' and 'Storm the Bastille' is echoing somewhere in the air lately?

Signalfire, I have to ask, who is your avatar and is it from a movie, if so which one.

The Bot

I don't even know what you ranting about. How can you justify arming the people who you say surprised us on the morning of 9/11 with four Boeing's up our as$es killing 3000 innocent people? These are the same people that you said hate us for our freedom and are continuously training and conspiring to kill us anywhere in the world. These are the people who declared war on us, and because of these people we are giving up the very same freedom that you said they hate us for. These are the people that go to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill our young patriots.

I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I simply expressed true statements about how America's covert mission has changed from passive to aggressive in counteracting terrorism. Who am I supposed to be arming anyway? Where does this " hate us for our freedom" nonsense come from. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the motivation of the 9/11 operatives.

The Frontline documentary simply exposes what most already knew. President Bush sent the CIA and their killer squads into Afghanistan to enact revenge on anyone who was even remotely associated with the Taliban or Al'qedia.

reply to post by spooky24

Is this secret war that started with patriots who wanted revenge for the deaths of innocent civilians and still expands daily legal? Perhaps not, however I could really care less because I know which side I am on and that side is the side of the winners

wow...just wow....

So you don't care whether it's just or even legal...you only care to be on the side of winners ?

That's enough from you for me...until doomsday.

spooky24

I don't even know what you ranting about. How can you justify arming the people who you say surprised us on the morning of 9/11 with four Boeing's up our as$es killing 3000 innocent people? These are the same people that you said hate us for our freedom and are continuously training and conspiring to kill us anywhere in the world. These are the people who declared war on us, and because of these people we are giving up the very same freedom that you said they hate us for. These are the people that go to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill our young patriots.

I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I simply expressed true statements about how America's covert mission has changed from passive to aggressive in counteracting terrorism. Who am I supposed to be arming anyway? Where does this " hate us for our freedom" nonsense come from. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the motivation of the 9/11 operatives.

The Frontline documentary simply exposes what most already knew. President Bush sent the CIA and their killer squads into Afghanistan to enact revenge on anyone who was even remotely associated with the Taliban or Al'qedia.

I'm talking about the topic of this thread. Apparently you start posting information that's totally irrelevant to the topic. But you said something that got my interest.

You said that you want to be on the winning side and you do whatever your country asks you to do.

I will ask you for the third time now, who are the winners? And would you do anything just to be on the winning side no matter who the winners are?

Humm.............

I don't really know how to answer that without getting into some closed areas. So I'll say this. Over the past 3 decades or so I have had my ups and downs with the American Government. Sometime it's was my own stubborn fault, sometimes it was the other way around. I have worked for them and in some instances worked against them in things I think are unfair.

I suppose I pick on the 'truthers' too much and kind of make fun of them however it all in the spirit of the debate. Occasionally, someones silliness, with some far fetched lunacy, strikes a cord because of some of the dealings I have had as a patriot of the American government, and in a sense the military as it relates to intelligence and the protection of American citizens abroad. I interpret this as a hatred for government in which the values many persons take for granted, a great number of proud and courageous individuals have died for. This is a fallacy that I knowingly avoid sometimes as most of these individuals simply have social issues and can't express themselves without the fear that they will be ignored, hence, they they use the internet to post outrageous, and sometimes hurtful things, so people will pay them some attention that they can't get socially in the real world.

The 'winners' in which you don't seem to have the patriotic experience-nor the inclination to study American history, not to mention ever putting yourself on the line for the collected good of others, is why you have issues understanding winners when it comes to how you feel about your country. Persons who do have these experiences are the 'winners' because they believe that, despite numerous problems, the American way is worth any personal sacrifice.

Yes, after 9/11 the American government did some awful things. What you simply can't interrelate, or even begin to understand, is that it was a response to some very awful things that were done to innocent Americans by individuals not on any battlefield, nor in any war.

The 'winners' that you can't seem to postulate are again the ones that support this government regardless of the tactics they use.

reply to post by spooky24


The difference between people like you and I is the urge to use our "patriotic experiences" to justify "some awful things" that American government did after 9/11. I am not interested in what you have done for the collective good of others nor am I going to discuss what I have done. These things are only meaningful if they remain between us and our God. I am confident that God knows and cares, and he rewards each one of us on the individual bases.

From our very short and limited conversation, I can tell that your heart is in the right place. I can see that you stand for freedom and truly believe that what has been and still is being done in our names is for the greater good even if there were mistakes. We made some wrong choices after 9/11. Making choices (right or wrong) is really the exercise of freedom. But the big mistake is to continue making the same choices that we already know are wrong.

We supported, trained and armed people who were fighting a war that had nothing to do with us. The result of that wrong choice was 9/11. Twelve years after it was revealed to the world beyond any reasonable doubt that we made a mistake, we find ourselves thinking about making the very same mistake again. How can we as Americans feel like winners if we support the enemy? If we train, support, or arm the Syrian rebels, they will win their civil war. We know that al-Qaida fighters are amongst these rebels. If you are willing to be on the side of al-Qaida and call yourself a winner than the troops that did not come home are the losers because they died fighting against the people on your side. If you want to be on the winning side which you clearly believe is the American side than al-Qaida must lose. The only way that can happen is if we destroy them not support them. That of course means that as hard as it is to see innocent people in Syria dying for their freedom, we must stay out of their civil war and continue fighting our enemy.