Texas CHL & knife law - carrying large blades in backpack

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posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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I carry my get-home bag with me into work and in my truck almost anywhere I go that's more than a few miles from my home. I used to carry a small hatchet and recently acquired a nice 18" khukuri. It occurred to me that most LEOs would see this as a knife so I was looking into TX law for CHL carriers and knives. In Florida my CCW would let me carry large knives too - in TX that doesn't seem to be the case.

Trying to find decent information on the topic I came across this thread - and I'm linking to the post that explains the "victory" here: www.texasguntalk.com...

So my question is - is that gentlemen's victory (or what seems it) enough to carry a large blade concealed in a bag that regularly moves with me? Does anyone else from Texas have thoughts on the matter? Cheers, -Mags




posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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I would venture to say to carry the machete on the outside of the bag (but keep the bag rotated so that it is on the bottom when in the vehicle). If a cop asks why you have that?

Tell them you were planning on camping.

Camping bags carry much the same as a well outfitted BoB after all.



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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why would you want to carry a large blade with you around? That's weird. Any cop who sees that is gonna think you're up to no good!!! It's just asking for trouble.

If you're so concerned about that kind of stuff here's what you do. You find a little forest or park. You go there at night and bury the large knife or hatchet you want in a bag. Then you just carry around a very small folding knife. I like BG gerber they make I think 3 sizes of folding knives. The mid size it has about a 3 inch blade. It's just big enough that you could do some work with it if you needed to. But small enough and perfect for most simply daily tasks and or to defend yourself with. I got one for like 10 bucks. Just carry something like that around. That way it doesn't look so bad. Meanwhile you got your bigger stuff that you're never gonna use stashed away somewhere that you could go get them if the shtf. I wouldn't do anything that makes you stand out as some kind of a threat



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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I don't see the need for such a large blade in a get home bag/daily carry. Any way what I found in the Texas penal code says:


Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

So it would seem that it is OK to keep one in your car. If the SHTF to the point where there is gridlock and you have to leave your vehicle I would just grab it and go. I'm sure in a situation like that, LEOs would be too busy to waste their time on a Class A misdemeanor.
edit on 22-9-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Insurrection
 


www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us... (Note that this official version doesn't include the repeal as it is not yet the law) - See more at: www.kniferights.org...

First, the definition of an Illegal Knife in Sec. 46.01(6)(C) still includes "dagger, including but not limited to dirk, stilletto and poniard." That has not changed. None of these type knives, dagger, etc., are defined in Texas law, but based on case law generally you should assume that a "dagger" covers any double-edged blade. This would include automatic knives with double-edged blades

There is also an exception for use if you are "engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity." Note the last part of that exception. You might find it a challenge in court supporting the contention that the otherwise illegal knife was "commonly used in the activity." Also, as with the previous paragraph, case law is clear that you cannot use this argument if you are not actually traveling directly to or from the activity.

(6) “Illegal Knife” means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one half inches;
Rainer v. State, 763 S.W.2d 615 (Tex. App.-Eastland 1989, pet. ref’d) To determine
length, measure entire length of blade past handle, not just the sharpened portion of the
blade. Same result in McMurrough v. State, 995 S.W.2d 944 (Tex. App.-Ft. Worth 1999).
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
Albert v. State, 659 S.W.2d 41 (Tex. App.-Houston [14
th
Dist.] 1983, pet. ref’d) Martial
arts throwing star qualifies as “a hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown”.
(C) dagger including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
Armendariz v. State, 396 S.W.2d 132 (Tex. Crim. App. 1965) A knife slightly over seven
inches in length when open, equipped with a double guard, blade that locks open and is
sharpened on both sides of blade for over an inch meets the definition of a dagger.
(D) bowie knife; Mireles v. State, 192 S.W. 241 (Tex. Crim. App. 1917) A knife in a scabbard with a blade
nine inches long and a handle four or five inches long described as a butcher knife was
embraced in the term “bowie knife” as defined by the Penal Code.
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) “Knife” means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious
bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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spartacus699
why would you want to carry a large blade with you around? That's weird. Any cop who sees that is gonna think you're up to no good!!! It's just asking for trouble.



daskakik
I don't see the need for such a large blade in a get home bag/daily carry. Any way what I found in the Texas penal code says:


The whole idea is I want nobody to see anything in my bag - it's a pretty normal bag, not a typical Go Bag either. I traveled the region 230 days last year and I'm on-track to pass that this year - so I want to have the self-contained setup with me if possible.

In terms of blade size I was looking for something versatile based on the landscape between my common range and home. The way I figured it there is about a 2/3 chance if I have to trek it back - that I'll need to do so through vegetation and not on roadways. (And working my fitness level up to what I think it will need to be, etc.)

I want to see what my options are for not leaving any component in my vehicle - right now that's what happens though. After a rental break-in I'm fairly determined not to do so again.

In terms of the legal narrative the thread I linked to in the OP has page on page. And what appears to be a victory that if you have your CHL and are carrying the pistol then you can also carry any blade you want. Except I'm not sure if that's really a victory or a Prosecutor deciding not to pursue this one.

I figured I'd reach out and see if anyone here (instead of there) had other experience. Thanks, Cheers, -Mags



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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Insurrection
I want to see what my options are for not leaving any component in my vehicle - right now that's what happens though. After a rental break-in I'm fairly determined not to do so again.


The piece of the penal code that I posted indicates that you can carry it to and from your car. Probably not a good idea if you are getting out and walking around in a public area but, I would think between home and/or work and car should be fine.



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


They actually wrote club into that law??? WTF?

I guess one just can't walk around with a baseball bat. I guess one can't walk to the baseball field with a either, since one is not on one's property or going to one's MV.

Does this include golf clubs?

What a dumb law.

Back OT: carrying a kukri in a backpack everywhere is kinda odd (and paranoid), IMO. I'd just leave it in the truck. I mean, understand the point of a BOB, but carrying it to work every day is...odd too lol.



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Insurrection
 


In order for it to be a problem it would have to be "discovered" without foreknowledge of its existence. Which means either your person or vehicle is being searched. In either case you are free to make a "declaration" prior to the search along the lines that you regularly practice "wilderness and camping". That you have a pack that has that tool and is used for gathering and splitting wood for campfires. That you used to carry a small hatchet but this saves weight and has the added function of skinning game for cooking or shelter building.

Does that keep you out of dutch? No, but it eases the shock of finding a weapon when not expected. It may spark conversation. Keep your answers honest. That in the event of a tornado or other natural disaster you would be able to make your way home on foot by living off the land rather than being another victim of circumstances beyond your ability to overcome. That you prefer not to be a burden on emergency resources that may not be organized for a few days.

Above all else, when speaking with LEO's always be calm, professionally friendly and honest. Once out of their game face, most LEO's are not that bad.



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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Liquesence
reply to post by daskakik
 


They actually wrote club into that law??? WTF?

Back OT: carrying a kukri in a backpack everywhere is kinda odd (and paranoid), IMO. I'd just leave it in the truck. I mean, understand the point of a BOB, but carrying it to work every day is...odd too lol.


I'm not sure why it's odd - people carry small hatchets or machetes. Honest question - why is this so odd? I just thought it was far more durable and versatile than the small hatchet.

This is a Get Home bag and after one rental getting broken into and losing a fair amount - I try to keep everything in the bag on me. Just enough for the range I typically travel - which isn't always with my truck.

I could quantify carrying anything as paranoid - I'm trying to figure out what is so wrong with this?

I guess I can forgo heavy brush sometimes and just carry a wire-saw if ever needed. Basically this was all about heavy brush and light chopping for me assuming up to a two-day trek back home on foot. *rubs chin*

Thanks for the feedback - mulling it all. -Mags



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


There we go - that's what I was looking for. It was escaping me. Also in my line of work and a quick call to my employer it's entirely workable. Great thoughts, thank you! -Mags



posted on Sep, 22 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by Insurrection
 


Wire saws are best left for hanging picture frames.

Look for a pocket chain saw, usually around $25 and actually does what the wire saw is supposed to do without snapping once the heat from friction gets too high. Then again I am partial to the folding pruning saw by Fiskars as well, usually under $20.



posted on Sep, 23 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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spartacus699
why would you want to carry a large blade with you around? That's weird. Any cop who sees that is gonna think you're up to no good!!! It's just asking for trouble.


Sorry for sticking my nose in here...please feel free to ignore me...but, if it's not against the law, it's not against the law...

Who gives a flying FRAK what a LEO thinks.

Was there any reason to believe a crime is about to be committed ? Was the knife owner acting in an awkward or odd manner? Nope, he was just carrying it.


Sorry, just my $.02



- SN



posted on Sep, 28 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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As long as the blade is in your car, you aren't violating the law; although a cop searching your things might be freaked out if you hadn't declared it.

One way to help yourself (particularly if it becomes a court case) is to contextualize the item. If it is in a backpack with a compass, portable saw, maybe some maps and a full canteen, and maybe a guide to texas edible plants, I really don't think anyone will have an interest.

On the other hand, if you get pulled over with 5 others in your vehicle, and most of your are intoxicated......

It's something the cop can pursue.





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