Jesus presents Himself as God

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posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 04:39 PM
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Watching and listening to Father Robert Barron's Word of Fire Youtubes, gave me the desire to start this thread and...

I worry, there are so many disbelievers at ATS.

This fact bothered men of Our Lord's time so much, they killed Him. Give example if you like of Our Lord stating the fact He is God. Any quote showing He is speaking of Himself in a divine way.


John 10:30
I and the Father are one.


[30] I and the Father are one: That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

www.drbo.org...




posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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colbe
Watching and listening to Father Robert Barron's Word of Fire Youtubes, gave me the desire to start this thread and...

I worry, there are so many disbelievers at ATS.

This fact bothered men of Our Lord's time so much, they killed Him. Give example if you like of Our Lord stating the fact He is God. Any quote showing He is speaking of Himself in a divine way.


John 10:30
I and the Father are one.


[30] I and the Father are one: That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

www.drbo.org...


When Jesus said that "I and the Father are One," he was saying that his Higher Self (God) has merged with his consciousness. When he said this, sometimes he referred to his Higher Self and sometimes his Master, which are both in Heaven. Jesus came here to give an example of how to find yourself and your true divinity. He wasn't trying to teach that he was the only one who was God. All of us are God, we just don't remember who we are. Seek the light inside of you, don't see God as some being far away. God is within you.

If you desire to seek God within you, then read more from my previous posts in other threads here: My Posts



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Jesus is the Redeemer. This is a difference between God and Christ.

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The fullness of God was on Jesus. This is true, but we can identify the redeemer by several verses.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,[g]’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

If you look close at this verse, you know that Adam is the Redeemer. Job knew this, but didn't now Adam would return as the last Adam.

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

If you look at what Job was saying, he was stating that the root of the trouble comes from the subject of this verse set. Adam is the root of the trouble and the last Adam is the solution. They are the same person.

Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet (Letters / Alphabet)

Son is Bet Nun (House of Seed / Word).

The Son of God is the expression of the Father in an image. By this view, we can see Christ as the end and the Father as the beginning of the letters. Christ stated that He was the Aleph and Tav (Alpha and Omega).

The word Truth is Hebrew is Aleph Mem Tav. Mem is water. Aleph and Tav are the beginning and end of the alphabet. Mother in Hebrew is Aleph Mem (Strength of the Waters). What are we baptized into? The waters of life. If you go back and read my threads, you can see more of this.

Christ is the man Adam that has been born again since the beginning. So are we.

1 Corinthians 10

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is from Christ to today. All 7 billion souls are here to see faith become fact when Christ returns. The second resurrection comes in the last 1000 years (Day of the Lord). Again, you must be born again. Christ comes as the body (Church). We are that body and second resurrection of Christ. When the New Jerusalem comes, we are born yet again into that spiritual body and blood containing a Holy Spirit. As John 3 states, we must be born of Water AND Spirit. Right now, we are simply in water to repent. This is the first baptism that puts out the coming fire.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The one who was, who is and who is to come is not God. God IS. He is eternal. Christ is temporal and the fullness of God. There is a difference. Go back to the head of this post and read the first verses quoted again.

Who is the father of humanity? Adam. Who is Christ one with?


edit on 5-9-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:14 PM
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Revelation 1:17-18 (NASB)

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

I like using this one on the JWs.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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EnochWasRight
reply to post by colbe
 


Jesus is the Redeemer. This is a difference between God and Christ.

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The fullness of God was on Jesus. This is true, but we can identify the redeemer by several verses.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,[g]’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

If you look close at this verse, you know that Adam is the Redeemer. Job knew this, but didn't now Adam would return as the last Adam.

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

If you look at what Job was saying, he was stating that the root of the trouble comes from the subject of this verse set. Adam is the root of the trouble and the last Adam is the solution. They are the same person.

Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet (Letters / Alphabet)

Son is Bet Nun (House of Seed / Word).

The Son of God is the expression of the Father in an image. By this view, we can see Christ as the end and the Father as the beginning of the letters. Christ stated that He was the Aleph and Tav (Alpha and Omega).

The word Truth is Hebrew is Aleph Mem Tav. Mem is water. Aleph and Tav are the beginning and end of the alphabet. Mother in Hebrew is Aleph Mem (Strength of the Waters). What are we baptized into? The waters of life. If you go back and read my threads, you can see more of this.

Christ is the man Adam that has been born again since the beginning. So are we.

1 Corinthians 10

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is from Christ to today. All 7 billion souls are here to see faith become fact when Christ returns. The second resurrection comes in the last 1000 years (Day of the Lord). Again, you must be born again. Christ comes as the body (Church). We are that body and second resurrection of Christ. When the New Jerusalem comes, we are born yet again into that spiritual body and blood containing a Holy Spirit. As John 3 states, we must be born of Water AND Spirit. Right now, we are simply in water to repent. This is the first baptism that puts out the coming fire.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The one who was, who is and who is to come is not God. God IS. He is eternal. Christ is temporal and the fullness of God. There is a difference. Go back to the head of this post and read the first verses quoted again.

Who is the father of humanity? Adam. Who is Christ one with?


edit on 5-9-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



Christ is not a created being (Colossians 1:15-20). He created everything.

ETA: Jesus is fully God and fully Man (Hebrews 1)
edit on 5-9-2013 by UnaChispa because: ...



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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ctophil

colbe
Watching and listening to Father Robert Barron's Word of Fire Youtubes, gave me the desire to start this thread and...

I worry, there are so many disbelievers at ATS.

This fact bothered men of Our Lord's time so much, they killed Him. Give example if you like of Our Lord stating the fact He is God. Any quote showing He is speaking of Himself in a divine way.


John 10:30
I and the Father are one.


[30] I and the Father are one: That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

www.drbo.org...


When Jesus said that "I and the Father are One," he was saying that his Higher Self (God) has merged with his consciousness. When he said this, sometimes he referred to his Higher Self and sometimes his Master, which are both in Heaven. Jesus came here to give an example of how to find yourself and your true divinity. He wasn't trying to teach that he was the only one who was God. All of us are God, we just don't remember who we are. Seek the light inside of you, don't see God as some being far away. God is within you.

If you desire to seek God within you, then read more from my previous posts in other threads here: My Posts



ctophil,

Which verse is that?



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by ctophil
 

The context shows that Jesus was not claiming something other people could also claim.
He has just been saying that the Father has given "my sheep" into his hand, and he is able to give then eternal life.
This introduces a clear distinction between Jesus and the sheep.
"I and the Father are one" is the conclusion of the same thought; Jesus has received the sheep from the Father because he is "one" with the Father in a sense which is not true about the sheep themselves.
The Jews would not have wanted to stone him for making a lesser claim.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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John 14:7

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


I find it interesting that at times Jesus talks about himself in the third person. For example, in Matthew 19:28(KJV) he says...

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

I look at it as him speaking as God

Then other times he speaks about God the Father as if he is separate from him. For example, in Matthew 19:24 he says...

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Why doesn't he say "My Kingdom"? In this context he is speaking as the Son of Man about God, and in the previous example he is speaking as God about the Son of Man.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Colossians 2:9

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?



Matthew 6
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: OUR FATHER which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.



Luke 18:19
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.



Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.



John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus NEVER taught that he, himself was the "God the Father".



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:09 PM
link   

ctophil

colbe
Watching and listening to Father Robert Barron's Word of Fire Youtubes, gave me the desire to start this thread and...

I worry, there are so many disbelievers at ATS.

This fact bothered men of Our Lord's time so much, they killed Him. Give example if you like of Our Lord stating the fact He is God. Any quote showing He is speaking of Himself in a divine way.


John 10:30
I and the Father are one.


[30] I and the Father are one: That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

www.drbo.org...


When Jesus said that "I and the Father are One," he was saying that his Higher Self (God) has merged with his consciousness. When he said this, sometimes he referred to his Higher Self and sometimes his Master, which are both in Heaven. Jesus came here to give an example of how to find yourself and your true divinity. He wasn't trying to teach that he was the only one who was God. All of us are God, we just don't remember who we are. Seek the light inside of you, don't see God as some being far away. God is within you.

If you desire to seek God within you, then read more from my previous posts in other threads here: My Posts

Hi, my name is ElOmen and I approve this message



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



John 14:2

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.



John 14:28
You heard that I said to you, I go away, and I will come to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I don't think it's any secret that Jesus came to teach people how to become servants of God and to each other. The only way he could do that was to take on the role of a servant himself.

Jesus didn't want to encourage them to worship human beings (as many had done before). He wanted them to worship God in spirit and he came to SHOW them how to do it.

Philippians 2:7

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 4:24

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:36 PM
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windword
reply to post by colbe
 



John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?



Matthew 6
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: OUR FATHER which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.



Luke 18:19
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.



Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.



John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus NEVER taught that he, himself was the "God the Father".



You're right, he didn't. But he did claim to be God. And the Bible says there is only one God.

God the Father is not God the Son. There are three separate persons within the Trinity. God is Triune; not triplex.

In John 10:34, Jesus is quoting Psalm 82 (you didn't quote the rest of the verse). In Psalm 82, the men were claiming themselves gods, but in the psalm, it says that they are not gods, but that they will die like the men that they are.

"...before Abraham was, I AM." - Jesus (New Testament)
"Tell them that I AM has sent you" - God (Old Testament)



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by UnaChispa
 

Christ is not a created being (Colossians 1:15-20). He created everything.
The 2011 edition of the NIV Bible translates it right,
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Colossians 1:16
Where the word "in" is the actual meaning of the Greek word "en".
The "all" is defined in the same verse, which are the authorities over the various people of the world.
It means specifically that Jesus is over all, so other people should not be setting themselves up as if they were higher than Jesus, such as a Pope who thinks he holds the keys over everything.
Colossians itself would be a later book, after Paul was dead, when there was already a church institution with its own hierarchy developing, with various persons vying for those positions and adding more power to them once they had taken their seats.
edit on 5-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


It is actually WIDELY accepted that Paul wrote that letter while he was in prison in Rome (about 62 AD.) He wrote Ephesians and Philippians around the same time.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Colossians itself would be a later book, after Paul was dead, when there were already a church institution with its own hierarchy developing, with various people vying for those positions and adding more power to them once they had taken their seats.


I disagree.


The Dating Of These Letters:

While under house arrest in Rome, Paul was able to conduct a limited ministry. He was able to receive visitors, such as the Jewish leaders of the synagogue in Rome (cf. Acts 28:16-29), and to minister to those who came to him. He was also able to minister to the needs of the churches by means of letters which he was free to write.

Paul wrote his letters to the Colossians, to Philemon, and to the Ephesians and Philippians while under this house arrest in Rome. These letters were written around A.D. 60 to 61. Because Paul was under house arrest and imprisoned at the time, his letters have been called his imprisonment or captivity letters.


www.christianinconnect.com...



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by UnaChispa
 

t is actually WIDELY accepted that Paul wrote that letter while he was in prison in Rome (about 62 AD.) He wrote Ephesians and Philippians around the same time.
As far as numbers of people in general, but not as a majority view by New Testament biblical scholars.
The Prison Thing as a theory of what happened to Paul was supported by the book of Acts which was not written until around 150 AD.






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