From the Memory Hole: Assad's Chemical Stockpile

This is not going to be an in-depth analysis, only a quick reminder of information that most members here are probably aware of anyway.

The hypocricy here is ridiculously blatant, western firms, with the consent of their governments, were always instrumental in building up the stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons of dictatorial regimes in the middle east. This is true for Iraq, Lybia and most certainly Syria.

The doctrine always seems to be: "sell first, bomb later".

And in any and all cases, cilvilians are the ones who suffer the most. What has to happen to end this cycle of senseless killing and violence? More 'red lines'?

IBTimes: Syria Chemical Weapons

Many Western companies have since contributed to the Syria weapons program by selling precursor nerve agents to SSRC front companies. As far back as 1989, then-CIA Director William Webster said, "West European firms were instrumental in supplying the required precursor chemicals and equipment. Without the provision of these key elements, Damascus would not have been able to produce chemical weapons."

Global Security

Syria is not able to internally produce many of the necessary precursors to create chemical weapons and is dependent upon importing production equipment. The CIA reports in nearly every declassified acquisition report to the US Congress over the last five years the efforts of Syria to obtain precursor chemicals and equipment from external sources.

The chemicals were stockpiled prior to international export controls but those initials supplies have likely long been exhausted. Syria's principle suppliers of CBW production technology were reported to be large chemical brokerage houses in Holland, Switzerland, France, Austria and Germany.

SYRIA’S CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL
WEAPONS: ASSESSING CAPABILITIES AND MOTIVATIONS

reply to post by talklikeapirat


That's a statement of "fact" I take absolute dispute with. Even England had to make it's own weapons. The US doesn't give THAT tech to anyone. Or, at least, we didn't back at the times we'd be talking about here.

Assad has been producing this like other countries make cookies for over 30 years in the open, for God and everyone to watch and see. It's been because of no membership to the Chem treaties, they could do this legally.

What Western help would Assad's regime have needed or wanted as a RUSSIAN client state? Or.....did they just tell the Soviets to go look another direction while they got from us what even Moscow wouldn't sell to them?

Lets at least recall what nations were and are, to this day, clients to which major world powers, before giving the West credit for EVERYTHING bad that's happened. As much as people LOVE to bash America ...and so much of this this morning, you'd think a major game were on for it right now, the Middle East really was a TWO party creation. The Soviets were pushing and pulling the OTHER side...right up to about 1990....and they're back at it now.

They do get SOME credit.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Did you forget to read the linked articles before commenting. Here's another 15 pages, from the horse's mouth.

Washingtoninstitute.org

At least five countries in the region have, or are working to acquire, a biological warfare capability: Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, and Syria. Iraq and Syria appear to have the most advanced programs.

West European and Japanese companies and individuals have played a key role in the construction of facilities to manufacture chemical agents, throughout the Middle East.

Syria

During the past five years, the Syrians have considerably expanded their chemical warfare capabilities. The Soviet Union refused to supply production facilities but the Syrians were able to obtain the necessary technology from companies in Western Europe.
At least one West German company supplied some of the equipment needed to set up a chemical weapons laboratory in the early 1980s. By 1986, the Syrians were able to manufacture chemical agents, reportedly concentrating on the nerve agent Sarin.

Libya

Construction of the chemical weapons complex is believed to have been the work of Japanese and West European companies. Japan Steel Works reportedly built a factory to manufacture aircraft bombs capable of being filled with chemical agents. European companies were apparently responsible for the construction of the plant making the chemical agents. Significantly, even though the Soviet Union provided Libya with defensive equipment, it refused to provide agents in the quantities needed for operational use or to assist Libya in the production of chemical weapons.

Russia's role is not in dispute here, although it is limited as stated in the linked reports. The US have not been explicitly mentioned in the OP.
My country, Germany, as well as companies from France and the UK, all NATO-members, played a key role in the development of chemical and biological weapon programs in middle eastern countries.
Would you like to leave a comment on that?

reply to post by talklikeapirat


Declassified congressional reports tell the story as well. They first gained mustard gas from Egypt but wisely chose not to use them on Israel at the time despite losing their war with them. They also received large stock pile from Iraq prior to the war smuggled out of Iraq on gutted passenger jets according to book by ex iraqi general. They also received both weapons and the expertise to make them from Russia. The israelis themselves acknowledge Syria has the largest stock pile of chemical weapons in the world. They have better intelligence than we do so they should know.

I have my doubts they have more than Russia though. It has also never been independently verified that they perfected making them for themselves. Honestly why should they when they were given all they could ever use by others. We know they have mustard, sarin, vx and a couple other variations as well as some biological. They don't have sophisticated long range delivery platforms however. I mean they have scuds like Iraq had, not accurate. But hey, you don't have to be very accurate with this stuff for it to be deadly.

They set us down and showed us film of vx and some stuff of ours that got loose in a lab when I was in military and it was what I was truly afraid of, terrible way to die.

I am just afraid that if we strike he will go nuts and start firing scuds with vx toward Israel. That would be very bad, lol.

These guys are nuts using this stuff, and on women and children. I just can't fathom killing innocent women and children, especially your own people.

The Bot

reply to post by talklikeapirat


No.... I didn't forget to look over your material.

However, if you believe that a good many people come to a thread like this with only the information an OP story presents, it's simply absurd.

Opinions formed on this come from a period stretching, literally, back to watching the 'peaceful protests' that started the immediate fighting in Homs. Perhaps more importantly though, being very sensitive back to at least 1990 about Syria and it's capabilities. That's the first time Israel took mid-range missiles into it's cities with the chance of major regional war breaking out. It didn't happen that time, by the promise that the US would eliminate the Scud threat.

I hadn't cared to know where most of these nations were on a map before that. I've never stopped watching news stories about them since.

Whatever the reason though, for watching things? The awareness of Syria, Libya and the others as a current event to notice goes back over 20 years. ( 30 years, for a good many more, older than I ) Your OP added a bit of modern perspective to an old old debate and frankly, one I've never given much credence to.


Western nations peddled dual use tech that, yeah. The private companies likely knew it would be used for what it was while In the name of profit, they surly told themselves the high grade aluminum really was for baby food or something, while bio lab equip really is for medical research.

Whatever wasn't peddled, the nations like Syria made, on their own. They could have made it all, eventually ...and greed made it happen a bit sooner. It didn't change the outcome.

I make NO excuses for the private sector that sold the stuff. They ought to do prison time where weapons which came from it, killed anyone. However, to blame *ANY* one nation for the programs these "rogue" nations scrapped together like Nation-Scale MacGuyvers, is to blame a good % of the industrialized nations across the world.

Everyone cashed in with arming these war torn nations. Most, still are. Everyone in the developed world at some level though has, by and large.

No one gave out complete warheads...and that's what I mean, even allies generally never shared beyond certain limits. Taboos meant something until fairly recently, IMO.

reply to post by wrabbit2000

What Western help would Assad's regime have needed or wanted as a RUSSIAN client state? Or.....did they just tell the Soviets to go look another direction while they got from us what even Moscow wouldn't sell to them?

Exactly, and western firms would happily assist where even the Soviet Union had refused.

During the past five years, the Syrians have considerably expanded their chemical warfare capabilities. The Soviet Union refused to supply production facilities but the Syrians were able to obtain the necessary technology from companies in Western Europe.

At least one West German company supplied some of the equipment needed to set up a chemical weapons laboratory in the early 1980s. By 1986, the Syrians were able to manufacture chemical agents, reportedly concentrating on the nerve agent Sarin.

CW's in the middle east

The Washington Institute report is from 1988.