A Different Take On Christianity And Abortion

reply to post by PrimeLight

I do not understand why you persist in distortion when I even expressed in pm that I do not support such 'bannings' and that I only desire that we all lean toward the Good Will in Knowledge with our choices. I also did not ever state or even imply that all violence is against His Will by Word. Please desist from putting such words in my mouth.

I'm not trying to distort your words. You said:

I do not believe our Creator ever condoned stoning (murder) and such

Yet, God's commands to murder are too numerous to mention. I have only to assume that you think that God's condoning of violence is a corruption of his word. Sorry if I'm wrong in that.

I still contend that, biblically speaking, the soul doesn't enter the body until the first breath is drawn. Therefore, abortion is NOT murder.

According to Genesis, God created Adam from the dust of the ground. After he was fully formed, God blew into Adam, and he became a "living soul".

reply to post by windword

I still contend that, biblically speaking, the soul doesn't enter the body until the first breath is drawn. Therefore, abortion is NOT murder. According to Genesis, God created Adam from the dust of the ground. After he was fully formed, God blew into Adam, and he became a "living soul".

I produced those links to help establish that the first Living breaths are drawn very early in the womb. The human 'organism' is very much alive at that very early stage of then biologically requiring earths oxygen to filter through by Design. The human matrix is not some 'empty vessel' when it begins receiving such 'breath' of air required to sustain life.

Please note there are symbolic metaphors also in use within texts, such as 'dust of the ground' when applying interpretations--and I would hope others too would understand in that regard with the Genesis notations of 'Adam and Eve' also used as metaphor for the first race of an unfallen humanity in Paradise--later surrendered by human will toward the nature of sin.

The spirit of murder and acts of violence are two avenues of variance depending on how the force of that violence is applied, whether through intent of righteousness (in defending/applying against wickedness) or not. Once again I do not desire to veer too off topic on such matters of Theology respectfully. Our Creator does not command against murder with a Holy Altar Built to it, then suddenly 'change tune'. There has been a distinct hijacking of Ways applied to my path of interpretation. Below is the Father I know and He Led my hand to this page after prayer to confirm also what I had previously come to know by Grace alone with a Blessing of Leading....

Psalm 99
1 ADONAI is king; let the peoples tremble. He sits enthroned on the k'ruvim; let the earth shake! 2 ADONAI is great in Tziyon; he is high above all the peoples. 3 Let them praise your great and fearsome name (he is holy): 4 "Mighty king who loves justice, you established fairness, justice and righteousness in Ya'akov." 5 Exalt ADONAI our God! Prostrate yourselves at his footstool (he is holy). 6 Moshe and Aharon among his cohanim and Sh'mu'el among those who call on his name called on ADONAI, and he answered them. 7 He spoke to them in the column of cloud; they kept his instructions and the law that he gave them. 8 ADONAI our God, you answered them. To them you were a forgiving God, although you took vengeance on their wrongdoings. 9 Exalt ADONAI our God, bow down toward his holy mountain, for ADONAI our God is holy!
100
1 Shout for joy to ADONAI, all the earth! 2 Serve ADONAI with gladness. Enter his presence with joyful songs. 3 Be aware that ADONAI is God; it is he who made us; and we are his, his people, the flock in his pasture. 4 Enter his gates with thanksgiving, enter his courtyards with praise; give thanks to him, and bless his name. 5 For ADONAI is good, his grace continues forever, and his faithfulness lasts through all generations.

reply to post by PrimeLight


And, I produced links and a video explaining that the lungs don't inflate until after birth, upon the first breath. Breath, by definition means the exhalation and inhalation and exhalation of air into the lungs.

If a pregnant woman stops breathing her unborn fetus dies. It can't receive oxygen on it's own. It's oxygen is rendered through the mother's blood and through the umbilical cord, as with all other nutrients needed.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by PrimeLight

 

And, I produced links and a video explaining that the lungs don't inflate until after birth, upon the first breath. Breath, by definition means the exhalation and inhalation and exhalation of air into the lungs.

If a pregnant woman stops breathing her unborn fetus dies. It can't receive oxygen on it's own. It's oxygen is rendered through the mother's blood and through the umbilical cord, as with all other nutrients needed.

We are not talking about the mother stops breathing and then the baby dies. We are talking about a living woman making a willful CHOICE to end the life of a healthy baby that WOULD live if she didn't interfere.

reply to post by Khaleesi

Thank you. I was getting a bit confused on why the issue had become whether oxygen was being delivered by an umbilical cord or in some other way.

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

The life is in the blood. The baby receives oxygen and nutrients from the blood therefore is alive. Notice the reference connecting blood and soul in this verse.

reply to post by Khaleesi


Actually, we're talking about how the Bible doesn't anywhere teach "interference" with a woman's choice to use contraception or to her choice to abort. Don't think that it wasn't available back then, they have found IUDs in Egytptian female mummies.

Originally posted by windword
Yet, God's commands to murder are too numerous to mention. I have only to assume that you think that God's condoning of violence is a corruption of his word. Sorry if I'm wrong in that.

Please define murder. Do you mean kill without cause? Or do you mean death during war or do you mean penalty for sin.

Definition of HOMICIDE
1
: a person who kills another
2
: a killing of one human being by another

Definition of MURDER
1
: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

Notice the difference. Homicide... a death occurs. Murder is unlawful killing with malice aforethought (intentional homicide).

What about in war? Is it murder to kill in battle or is that considered homicide?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Khaleesi

 

Actually, we're talking about how the Bible doesn't anywhere teach "interference" with a woman's choice to use contraception or to her choice to abort. Don't think that it wasn't available back then, they have found IUDs in Egytptian female mummies.

Actually, just because the Bible is silent on the issue doesn't mean it is right.

Let's be really honest. The majority of abortions are not done because of rape or for the protection of the life of the mother. In most cases (not all) abortions are performed because people want to use it as a form of 'birth control' instead of using some self control. It is simply a loss of respect for life and a failure to take responsibility for our own actions. I think most adults know unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy. Use protection if you do not want this result or don't have sex.

reply to post by Khaleesi

Please define murder. Do you mean kill without cause? Or do you mean death during war or do you mean penalty for sin.

Definition of HOMICIDE
1
: a person who kills another
2
: a killing of one human being by another

Definition of MURDER
1
: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

Notice the difference. Homicide... a death occurs. Murder is unlawful killing with malice aforethought (intentional homicide).

What about in war? Is it murder to kill in battle or is that considered homicide?

How about stoning an adulteress or a rebellious teenage? Is that homicide?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Khaleesi

 

How about stoning an adulteress or a rebellious teenage? Is that homicide?

I thought this was a thread about abortion? Why deflect to another issue?

To continue with my previous post:
www.abort73.com...

"On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).
Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).
One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF)."

PS Your real question should be "Is that murder?" Since the definition of murder and homicide are different. But if you wish to bring this into the discussion we must go to the original language of the Bible, not the translations that we are using.

Originally posted by Khaleesi

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Khaleesi

 

How about stoning an adulteress or a rebellious teenage? Is that homicide?

I thought this was a thread about abortion? Why deflect to another issue?

You're the one who brought up the question of homicide and war.......

To continue with my previous post:
www.abort73.com...

"On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).
Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).
One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF)."

It doesn't matter why woman choose NOT to become parents, what matters is that they have that right.

Abortion has much deeper costs than many realize or want to talk about because most women know they are taking the life of their child.



It is not just women who are in pain over abortion. My brother raced to the clinic but was too late. I believe it has affected him for decades now. He knows he lost a child.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Khaleesi

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Khaleesi

 

How about stoning an adulteress or a rebellious teenage? Is that homicide?

I thought this was a thread about abortion? Why deflect to another issue?

You're the one who brought up the question of homicide and war.......

To continue with my previous post:
www.abort73.com...

"On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).
Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).
One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF)."

It doesn't matter why woman choose NOT to become parents, what matters is that they have that right.

Actually I was asking your definition per your previous post. The definitions I posted show a revelance to the topic because murder is willful killing and abortion falls into that category.

Originally posted by windword


It doesn't matter why woman choose NOT to become parents, what matters is that they have that right.

Actually, it does matter why they choose. If they choose because they do not wish to be responsible for their actions, then they are choosing to be irresponsible.

reply to post by Khaleesi


I willfully kill tens of millions of living cells every time I scrub my face. I willfully kill ants when they become pests. Spermicide willfully kills live giving sperm, and many forms of birth control causes the death of a fertilized egg.

reply to post by Khaleesi


Sometimes, an abortion is the MOST responsible thing to do. Anyone who chooses to have children, do so for their own selfish reason, they want children. No one should be forced to have a child that they don't want.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Khaleesi

 

I willfully kill tens of millions of living cells every time I scrub my face. I willfully kill ants when they become pests. Spermicide willfully kills live giving sperm, and many forms of birth control causes the death of a fertilized egg.

So you equate a fetus with germs or ants? I do not understand the logic.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Khaleesi

 

Sometimes, an abortion is the MOST responsible thing to do. Anyone who chooses to have children, do so for their own selfish reason, they want children. No one should be forced to have a child that they don't want.

Why not choose to be responsible and not have sex? Isn't that just choosing self gratification over responsibility?