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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
The legal definition of Espionage:
The practice of secretly gathering information about a foriegn government or industrial rival, with the intention of placing ones own government or industrial entity, in a position of advantage, over its competitors and rivals.
This hasnt happened. Manning had no intention of placing any one government in an advantageous position when compared to the USA, and his actions cannot have given an advantage to his own government. His actions can only be seen as espionage, if espionage includes being truthful with the public of ones own nation, about crimes and poor practice committed by its own government against the constitution upon which that government was founded. It does not, therefore, by any reasonable measure, he is not guilty of such a thing.
The verdict is spurious, the judgement goes against every possible permutation of the much vaunted constitution, against the will of free thinking people in the US, and makes the USA look worse than its enemies, and this judgement does far worse damage to Americas reputation globally than ever the leaks themselves could have.
Appalling, disgusting, unjustifiable... just some of the terms which this judgement could reasonably be tagged with. Rest in peace America. Your land of the free just died.
Under the prosecution’s Orwellian logic, essentially any classified information given by a whistle-blower to a journalistic outlet (whether WikiLeaks or the Times, which published Manning-WikiLeaks revelations) amounts to treason if “the enemy” can read it. Well, the enemy, whomever it may be at any given moment, can read anything it wants on the Internet, the government can (and does) stamp its every embarrassing action “classified,” and so almost any revelatory investigative reporting on national security (the Pentagon Papers, the Abu Ghraib revelations, you name it) could in principle lead to the death penalty (even if that punishment wasn’t sought in the Manning case).
The real story of modern empire - of the corporatocracy that exploits desperate people and is executing history's most brutal, selfish and ultimately self-destructive resource grab- has little to do with what was exposed in the newspapers that morning and has everything to do with us. And that, of course, explains why we have such difficulty listening to the real story. We prefer to believe the myth that thousands of years of human social evolution has finally perfected the ideal economic system, rather than to face the fact we have merely bought into a false concept and accepted it as gospel. ...
This concept and its corollary are used to justify all manner of piracy- licenses are granted to rape and pillage and murder innocent people in Iran, Panama, Columbia, Iraq and elsewhere. EHMs, jackals, and armies flourish for as long as their activities can be shown to generate economic growth- and they almost always demonstrate such growth. Thanks to the biased "sciences" of forecasting, econometrics, and statistics, if you bomb a city and then rebuild it, the data shows a huge spike in economic growth.
The real story is that we are living a lie.
"The British are Coming!" Revere had risked his life to spread the word, and loyal Americans responded They stopped the empire, back then. I wondered what had motivated them, why those colonial Americans were willing to step out of line. Many of the ringleaders had been prosperous. What had inspired them to risk their businesses, to bite the hand that fed them, to risk their lives? ... And then it came to me: words. Words of men like Tom Paine and Thomas Jefferson fired the imaginations of their countrymen, opened hearts and minds. The colonists began to question, and when they did, they discovered a new reality that cut away at the deceits. They discovered the truth, understood the way the British Empire had manipulated, deceived, and enslaved them.
They saw their English masters had formulated a system and then had managed to convince most people of a lie- that it was the best system mankind could offer, that the prospects for a better world depended on channeling resources through the King of England, that an imperial approach to commerce and politics was the most efficient and humane means of helping the majority of the people- when in fact the truth was that the system enriched only a very few at the expense of the many.
(2004, Perkins, p.255-256)
This lie, and the resulting exploitation, endured and expanded for decades, until a handful of philosophers, businessmen, farmers, fishermen, frontiersmen, writers, and orators began to speak the truth.
Words.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
Here is an idea...
People need to learn what a Whistle Blower is.
People need to learn what information qualifies under Whistle Blower Statutes.
People need to learn the difference between Whistle Blowing as a civilian and Whistle Blowing as a member of the Us Armed Forces.
People need to learn that leaking information of a criminal act, and then burying that info under hundreds of thousands of classified documents that contain absolutely no criminal actions is not whistle blowing.
People need to learn that Manning knew exactly what his position in the military was and how he got into that position and what the consequences would be if he violated the laws in that area.
Manning is nothing more than a whiny little b*t*h who decided to go down this road because people didn't like him all that much.
If people want to cover what a whistle blower is follow the Snowden drama.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
Here is an idea...
People need to learn what a Whistle Blower is.
People need to learn what information qualifies under Whistle Blower Statutes.
People need to learn the difference between Whistle Blowing as a civilian and Whistle Blowing as a member of the Us Armed Forces.
People need to learn that leaking information of a criminal act, and then burying that info under hundreds of thousands of classified documents that contain absolutely no criminal actions is not whistle blowing.
People need to learn that Manning knew exactly what his position in the military was and how he got into that position and what the consequences would be if he violated the laws in that area.
Manning is nothing more than a whiny little b*t*h who decided to go down this road because people didn't like him all that much.
If people want to cover what a whistle blower is follow the Snowden drama.
Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
The legal definition of Espionage:
The practice of secretly gathering information about a foriegn government or industrial rival, with the intention of placing ones own government or industrial entity, in a position of advantage, over its competitors and rivals.
This hasnt happened. Manning had no intention of placing any one government in an advantageous position when compared to the USA, and his actions cannot have given an advantage to his own government. His actions can only be seen as espionage, if espionage includes being truthful with the public of ones own nation, about crimes and poor practice committed by its own government against the constitution upon which that government was founded. It does not, therefore, by any reasonable measure, he is not guilty of such a thing.
The verdict is spurious, the judgement goes against every possible permutation of the much vaunted constitution, against the will of free thinking people in the US, and makes the USA look worse than its enemies, and this judgement does far worse damage to Americas reputation globally than ever the leaks themselves could have.
Appalling, disgusting, unjustifiable... just some of the terms which this judgement could reasonably be tagged with. Rest in peace America. Your land of the free just died.
Originally posted by freddieb
Erik Snowden is a whistle blower. He simply reminded and reiterated what the American public should have already known. Had they been paying attention.
PFC Bradley Manning is guilty of espionage and is in direct violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He placed himself under the UCMJ when he enlisted. That means that the rules he is required to adhere to are different than civilian justice. What he did was a direct violation of operational security, Force Personnel Security and did so while in uniform and while in theater. These actions when committed by uniformed personnel are not protected by the "whistle blower rules".
Just my humble opinion
Originally posted by thesaneone
reply to post by dominicus
These are questions people need to ask themselves before working in such fields, well they want me to sign a confidential agreement contract they must be up to no good maybe I should look for another place of employment. Nobody is forcing people to work for highly classified jobs.
If you are afraid of the boogy man don't look in the closet.
Right, then only morally corrupt scum fill all those positions, and the status quo marches on, no positive changes ever occur. Sounds like a wonderful idea to me.....
Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by LanceCorvette
...OBVIOUSLY, if there is nothing clearly wrong going on, then there is no reason for classified information to be distributed to the people. If , on the other hand, the government behaves in a manner which is clearly wrong, and covers its ill behavior with "classified" tags, that government should expect to end up with egg on its face!
...However, one cannot be accused of espionage unless one does so to put a foreign government, or industrial entity in a position of advantage! Otherwise the meaning of the term must be redefined, because in its current form it does not cut it!
...In addition, its worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of what is considered classified is not a matter of national security, but a matter of covering peoples butts, preventing an administration from merely LOOKING bad, and as such is not worth arresting, prosecuting and jailing a man over, especially when that person was trying to do right by the PEOPLE of the country.
On July 6, 2010, Private Bradley Manning, a 22 year old intelligence analyst with the United States Army in Baghdad, was charged with disclosing this video (after allegedly speaking to an unfaithful journalist). The whistleblower behind the Pentagon Papers, Daniel Ellsberg, has called Mr. Manning a 'hero'. He is currently imprisoned in Kuwait. The Apache crew and those behind the cover up depicted in the video have yet to be charged. To assist Private Manning, please see bradleymanning.org.
5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.
Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-sight, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.