It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Bradley Manning Espionage Act Conviction a Blow to Both Whistleblowers and Journalists

page: 2
25
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 03:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
 


The legal definition of Espionage:

The practice of secretly gathering information about a foriegn government or industrial rival, with the intention of placing ones own government or industrial entity, in a position of advantage, over its competitors and rivals.

This hasnt happened. Manning had no intention of placing any one government in an advantageous position when compared to the USA, and his actions cannot have given an advantage to his own government. His actions can only be seen as espionage, if espionage includes being truthful with the public of ones own nation, about crimes and poor practice committed by its own government against the constitution upon which that government was founded. It does not, therefore, by any reasonable measure, he is not guilty of such a thing.

The verdict is spurious, the judgement goes against every possible permutation of the much vaunted constitution, against the will of free thinking people in the US, and makes the USA look worse than its enemies, and this judgement does far worse damage to Americas reputation globally than ever the leaks themselves could have.

Appalling, disgusting, unjustifiable... just some of the terms which this judgement could reasonably be tagged with. Rest in peace America. Your land of the free just died.


Unless... the current foundation of our 'government' is not a native government by some type of unseen law or infiltration... Making them... foreign..

By any means. Bradley Manning deserves his freedom. What he did was noble and brave. The worst part of it all... This entire situation spells trouble for not only Snowden, but many future whistleblowers as well.

So what can we do? It seems to me.. that the time is nigh to overthrow this foreign government that governs us..




posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 05:19 PM
link   
reply to post by Mizzijr
 


While I agree that Mr Manning ought to be free, I cannot agree with your assessment of the origins of the government of the US at this time. Personally it seems to me that to believe that the ills of the government in the USA to be a matter of foriegn interferance is yet another element of the obfuscatory veil that is drawn over the subject as a whole.

The government of the US, no matter how corrupted, is not a foreign power taking control over that nation, but rather a cancer from within, born of its own ills. As such, it is for the people of the US to correct this sin, this heresy, this utter abolition of all that the nation is supposed to represent, both unto its people and to the world as a whole.



posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 05:50 PM
link   

Under the prosecution’s Orwellian logic, essentially any classified information given by a whistle-blower to a journalistic outlet (whether WikiLeaks or the Times, which published Manning-WikiLeaks revelations) amounts to treason if “the enemy” can read it. Well, the enemy, whomever it may be at any given moment, can read anything it wants on the Internet, the government can (and does) stamp its every embarrassing action “classified,” and so almost any revelatory investigative reporting on national security (the Pentagon Papers, the Abu Ghraib revelations, you name it) could in principle lead to the death penalty (even if that punishment wasn’t sought in the Manning case).

nymag.com...

Scary. That's right, reporting the news has essentially become illegal in the U.S. Oh, unless it's about the Kardashian's; that's still allowed so at least we still have our entertainment, amirite? Omg did you see what Kim was wearing? And isn't Justin Beiber just the worst ever?

Here are some selections from 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' :


The real story of modern empire - of the corporatocracy that exploits desperate people and is executing history's most brutal, selfish and ultimately self-destructive resource grab- has little to do with what was exposed in the newspapers that morning and has everything to do with us. And that, of course, explains why we have such difficulty listening to the real story. We prefer to believe the myth that thousands of years of human social evolution has finally perfected the ideal economic system, rather than to face the fact we have merely bought into a false concept and accepted it as gospel. ...

This concept and its corollary are used to justify all manner of piracy- licenses are granted to rape and pillage and murder innocent people in Iran, Panama, Columbia, Iraq and elsewhere. EHMs, jackals, and armies flourish for as long as their activities can be shown to generate economic growth- and they almost always demonstrate such growth. Thanks to the biased "sciences" of forecasting, econometrics, and statistics, if you bomb a city and then rebuild it, the data shows a huge spike in economic growth.

The real story is that we are living a lie.


Some words towards a possible solution;


"The British are Coming!" Revere had risked his life to spread the word, and loyal Americans responded They stopped the empire, back then. I wondered what had motivated them, why those colonial Americans were willing to step out of line. Many of the ringleaders had been prosperous. What had inspired them to risk their businesses, to bite the hand that fed them, to risk their lives? ... And then it came to me: words. Words of men like Tom Paine and Thomas Jefferson fired the imaginations of their countrymen, opened hearts and minds. The colonists began to question, and when they did, they discovered a new reality that cut away at the deceits. They discovered the truth, understood the way the British Empire had manipulated, deceived, and enslaved them.

They saw their English masters had formulated a system and then had managed to convince most people of a lie- that it was the best system mankind could offer, that the prospects for a better world depended on channeling resources through the King of England, that an imperial approach to commerce and politics was the most efficient and humane means of helping the majority of the people- when in fact the truth was that the system enriched only a very few at the expense of the many.


sound familiar?


This lie, and the resulting exploitation, endured and expanded for decades, until a handful of philosophers, businessmen, farmers, fishermen, frontiersmen, writers, and orators began to speak the truth.

Words.
(2004, Perkins, p.255-256)

No link to source, it's transcribed from the book that was btw a textbook assigned to me at school. Props to my Prof on that one.

People need to start speaking up because this is a dangerous precedent they are setting. Say nothing now and soon you may not have the right or choice to speak or express yourself.

edit on 31-7-2013 by Runciter33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 07:16 PM
link   
reply to post by Runciter33
 


That was a great book, wasn't it? Downright scary though.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 08:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
 


Here is an idea...

People need to learn what a Whistle Blower is.
People need to learn what information qualifies under Whistle Blower Statutes.
People need to learn the difference between Whistle Blowing as a civilian and Whistle Blowing as a member of the Us Armed Forces.
People need to learn that leaking information of a criminal act, and then burying that info under hundreds of thousands of classified documents that contain absolutely no criminal actions is not whistle blowing.
People need to learn that Manning knew exactly what his position in the military was and how he got into that position and what the consequences would be if he violated the laws in that area.

Manning is nothing more than a whiny little b*t*h who decided to go down this road because people didn't like him all that much.

If people want to cover what a whistle blower is follow the Snowden drama.


I don't like this idea of separation of ideology when it comes to the difference between civilians and armed forces. We are ALL americans, and we are ALL human beings that deserve to know the truth. And under that respect, a whistleblower is a whistleblower. I think Manning decided to "go down that road" because he is a hero, and he knew the consequences but he did it anyway. We all need to take a lesson or two from the constitution and understand that ultimately, we the people make or break this country, and so many are so brainwashed into thinking with a group mentality that they don't understand what liberty and individual freedom really mean. Manning is a war hero, and he should be pardoned.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 09:44 AM
link   
Fact is I believe the Manning's and Snowden's of the world did this for nothing as it seems there will never be
enough outrage to bring about any real change! It seems to be a little late in the game to bring about change
when almost one third of the us workforce is working for government directly or indirectly!
Bringing about outrage is like trying to beat a dead horse in this country! IDK if it's the water, drugs or just stupidity but most are complacently content to vegetate until they die!



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 11:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
 


Here is an idea...

People need to learn what a Whistle Blower is.
People need to learn what information qualifies under Whistle Blower Statutes.
People need to learn the difference between Whistle Blowing as a civilian and Whistle Blowing as a member of the Us Armed Forces.
People need to learn that leaking information of a criminal act, and then burying that info under hundreds of thousands of classified documents that contain absolutely no criminal actions is not whistle blowing.
People need to learn that Manning knew exactly what his position in the military was and how he got into that position and what the consequences would be if he violated the laws in that area.

Manning is nothing more than a whiny little b*t*h who decided to go down this road because people didn't like him all that much.

If people want to cover what a whistle blower is follow the Snowden drama.


THANK you!!!!

Manning is not a whistleblower - he took reams of unrelated classified material and just released it in violation of his duties as a U.S. soldier! He wasn't "blowing the whistle" on any illegal or immoral activities.

I don't know why he did it, but it certainly was not "whistleblowing."



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 11:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
 


The legal definition of Espionage:

The practice of secretly gathering information about a foriegn government or industrial rival, with the intention of placing ones own government or industrial entity, in a position of advantage, over its competitors and rivals.

This hasnt happened. Manning had no intention of placing any one government in an advantageous position when compared to the USA, and his actions cannot have given an advantage to his own government. His actions can only be seen as espionage, if espionage includes being truthful with the public of ones own nation, about crimes and poor practice committed by its own government against the constitution upon which that government was founded. It does not, therefore, by any reasonable measure, he is not guilty of such a thing.

The verdict is spurious, the judgement goes against every possible permutation of the much vaunted constitution, against the will of free thinking people in the US, and makes the USA look worse than its enemies, and this judgement does far worse damage to Americas reputation globally than ever the leaks themselves could have.

Appalling, disgusting, unjustifiable... just some of the terms which this judgement could reasonably be tagged with. Rest in peace America. Your land of the free just died.


So under your theory any person in the U.S. military whose duties include the receipt and maintenance of classified information can just release it to the public if they want to? No rules, just do what you want?



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:04 PM
link   
reply to post by LanceCorvette
 


Are you for real?

Ok, lets spell it out for all the pedantic, anal types shall we? OBVIOUSLY, if there is nothing clearly wrong going on, then there is no reason for classified information to be distributed to the people. If , on the other hand, the government behaves in a manner which is clearly wrong, and covers its ill behavior with "classified" tags, that government should expect to end up with egg on its face!

However, one cannot be accused of espionage unless one does so to put a foreign government, or industrial entity in a position of advantage! Otherwise the meaning of the term must be redefined, because in its current form it does not cut it!

In addition, its worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of what is considered classified is not a matter of national security, but a matter of covering peoples butts, preventing an administration from merely LOOKING bad, and as such is not worth arresting, prosecuting and jailing a man over, especially when that person was trying to do right by the PEOPLE of the country.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:33 PM
link   
War was never pretty. I believe it has been nicknamed hell. With our increasing ability to record almost everything onto computers with the mass availability of camaras and sound recorders, all that ugliness can be spread around and shared quickly on the internet. This has led to a situation, I think, where the expectations placed on the military will be higher. Of course, in the fog of war, it's extremely difficult to prevent ugly things from happening, so it seems we're slightly conflicted.
edit on 1-8-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:40 PM
link   
This is the ULTIMATE sign that now is a good time to get the hell out of this place while you still can.

I have an uncle that was in WW II and said this his how Germany started out under Hitler, eventually turning into opinion police and what not......

Im going to stick around though and continue working on Enlightenment in the midst of corruption fascist chaos.......



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:00 PM
link   
Erik Snowden is a whistle blower. He simply reminded and reiterated what the American public should have already known. Had they been paying attention.

PFC Bradley Manning is guilty of espionage and is in direct violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He placed himself under the UCMJ when he enlisted. That means that the rules he is required to adhere to are different than civilian justice. What he did was a direct violation of operational security, Force Personnel Security and did so while in uniform and while in theater. These actions when committed by uniformed personnel are not protected by the "whistle blower rules".

Just my humble opinion



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by freddieb
Erik Snowden is a whistle blower. He simply reminded and reiterated what the American public should have already known. Had they been paying attention.

PFC Bradley Manning is guilty of espionage and is in direct violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He placed himself under the UCMJ when he enlisted. That means that the rules he is required to adhere to are different than civilian justice. What he did was a direct violation of operational security, Force Personnel Security and did so while in uniform and while in theater. These actions when committed by uniformed personnel are not protected by the "whistle blower rules".

Just my humble opinion

If you signed a contract not to say anything to anyone, about anything, and then witnessed that the people you signed the contract with were committing murderous acts against innocent civilians which go against your very own core ethics and morals, your telling me you wouldn't say anything to anyone because of a contract????



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:31 PM
link   
reply to post by dominicus
 


These are questions people need to ask themselves before working in such fields, well they want me to sign a confidential agreement contract they must be up to no good maybe I should look for another place of employment. Nobody is forcing people to work for highly classified jobs.

If you are afraid of the boogy man don't look in the closet.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by thesaneone
 


Right, then only morally corrupt scum fill all those positions, and the status quo marches on, no positive changes ever occur. Sounds like a wonderful idea to me.....



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 05:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by thesaneone
reply to post by dominicus
 


These are questions people need to ask themselves before working in such fields, well they want me to sign a confidential agreement contract they must be up to no good maybe I should look for another place of employment. Nobody is forcing people to work for highly classified jobs.

If you are afraid of the boogy man don't look in the closet.

I'll just quote TKDRL's response which pretty much snuff's out your point completely:


Right, then only morally corrupt scum fill all those positions, and the status quo marches on, no positive changes ever occur. Sounds like a wonderful idea to me.....

Some people join the US Mil because they believe in the Constitution, in America as a country, not even once do they think that our own Gov/Mil could be responsible for War crimes, coughBushcough...

.....then they get there, and find out it's a ploy for the Military Industrial Complex which makes billions (Halliburton for example) off of war. Same people funding the war, is funding the people they're at war with.

If I was Manning and Saw that Apache killing vid, you best believe I would have blown the whistle.....

Some comments on ATS make me a shame of the thought processes of some fellow citizens

edit on 1-8-2013 by dominicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 06:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by LanceCorvette
 

...OBVIOUSLY, if there is nothing clearly wrong going on, then there is no reason for classified information to be distributed to the people. If , on the other hand, the government behaves in a manner which is clearly wrong, and covers its ill behavior with "classified" tags, that government should expect to end up with egg on its face!
...However, one cannot be accused of espionage unless one does so to put a foreign government, or industrial entity in a position of advantage! Otherwise the meaning of the term must be redefined, because in its current form it does not cut it!
...In addition, its worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of what is considered classified is not a matter of national security, but a matter of covering peoples butts, preventing an administration from merely LOOKING bad, and as such is not worth arresting, prosecuting and jailing a man over, especially when that person was trying to do right by the PEOPLE of the country.

Good points.
Another thing...
Those saying "he buried the 'wrong-doing-kinda-stuff' in a much larger pile of 'nothing-wrong-with-this-picture-stuff'"...do not know what it takes to prove a case.
To prove a case of "out of the ordinary", one must convincingly show what "the ordinary" is...
To convincingly show such with files/documents...when there is no certainty that others will testify in corroboration of the attestor's claims (for fear of retaliation from the employer/ military/ government - and job security), one must go "over the top" with proof.
Whistleblowing is a dangerous sport. Always has been.



posted on Aug, 2 2013 @ 12:26 AM
link   
It really doesn't change the fact that Manning had leaked classified information that he had no access to. Every army and government employees are warned repeatedly by their employers that leaking classified information without permission is a violation of federal law and UCMJ law. He's not a whistle-blower in my eyes either.



posted on Aug, 2 2013 @ 10:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Paulioetc15
 


Maybe he is not a whistle blower, but he is a man that decided that a job, and a contract wasn't worth selling out his personal principals for. That is the kind of person I respect. People that would keep their mouth shut, due to some stupid contract, or due to misplaced loyalty in an employer, well they can get bent in my book.



posted on Aug, 3 2013 @ 06:59 PM
link   
A reminder

Wikileaks - Collateral murder in Iraq by US helicopter (short version)


By releasing this video regarding modern military tactics Bradley Manning decided that he should "do the right thing" and reveal it to the rest of the world. Many of us, as Americans are ashamed by the degree of depravity displayed in this video - the level of barbarity and outright psychopathic behavior on the part of - not just the military - but the entire United States government.

Full Version of this video on next page
Uploaded on Dec 20, 2010


On July 6, 2010, Private Bradley Manning, a 22 year old intelligence analyst with the United States Army in Baghdad, was charged with disclosing this video (after allegedly speaking to an unfaithful journalist). The whistleblower behind the Pentagon Papers, Daniel Ellsberg, has called Mr. Manning a 'hero'. He is currently imprisoned in Kuwait. The Apache crew and those behind the cover up depicted in the video have yet to be charged. To assist Private Manning, please see bradleymanning.org.

5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-sight, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.


edit on 3-8-2013 by ERagerz because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
25
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join