A Physicist Explains Why Scientists Won't Discuss UFOs

Well it's no offence to the aliens..... they have been ignoring our scientists for even longer!

Say we had every notable scientist studying this phenomenon for the last 20 years. How much further along do you think we would be to an answer today? No tangible evidence has come up over these years that can be taken to a laboratory and scientifically studied. In fact, over the last 65 years and many tens of thousands of sightings, landings, abductions, etc., not one piece of tangible evidence has come about. I'm not talking about a phenomenon that only consists of reports of things flying around in the sky. It's reports of physical landings, crashes, interactions, and abductions. Yet, we have nothing physical.

There doesn't really need to be a scientific program. After all, look at J Allen Hynek. He studied UFOs for the Air Force and came up with no real conclusion. The answer isn't that complicated. All it would take is one of the thousands of average Joes that are witnesses to landings, or that have been abducted, to bring the scientific community that one piece of something. That would be the undeniable evidence that alien beings are behind UFOs.

reply to post by 1questioner


And you call these guys scientists? sorry, they're not ..

It doesn't matter, what rope a creationist wears ... doesn't matter what degrees he's got. He's never a scientist .. and while talking UFO's as in "Unidentified Flying Objects" is OK, going from there to "intelligence control" of a light in the sky, without even having so much as a basic knowledge of it ...

It's not science ...

The word science is overused by people who have no comprehension of what it's about.

If you shoot down one of these objects, and we see for ourselves that it exists ... and notice I say shoot it down. Because the only empirical evidence, is the confirming of existence by direct observation. And until you have that, and a model that actually predicts these phenomena ... not just theories and hypothesis that try to put a name to something, very few see ...

The truth of the matter is, that UFO's today are like angels and ghosts in the past. There are even people today that see them ... but non of it, is scientific in any sense of that word. And although we have no way of stating with certainty that it's an imagination of your mind. And that "maybe" it exists, it's not scientific because there is no natural explanation for it ... and until empirical evidence appears, it will always fall under the category where the evangelists see the doves in the sky, or the buddah people see the big picture.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


And there's your answer....
No scientist wants to spend his time researching something with zero evidence.

If UFO's are real we should accept that it's a technology we can't understand and move along as it's either inter dimensional or some sort of mass-less state locomotion between 2 relative locations. i.e magic for all intents and purposes.

If you can travel between dimension or approach/match/exceed the speed of light constant we need to accept that this tech is so far advanced we will never get any evidence if the makers/drivers of these objects wish it to be that way.


My suspicion is any one with that level of tech would either be seen and leave evidence to be found on purpose or would elect to never be seen as escaping human detection on a planet of 7 billion people is easy in comparison to travelling between stellar objects in a timely manner.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
After all, look at J Allen Hynek. He studied UFOs for the Air Force and came up with no real conclusion. The answer isn't that complicated. All it would take is one of the thousands of average Joes that are witnesses to landings, or that have been abducted, to bring the scientific community that one piece of something. That would be the undeniable evidence that alien beings are behind UFOs.

Hynek did identify some UFOs. He was in the car that was chasing the UFO, and Hynek asked them to point out the UFO they were chasing. Being an astronomer, he identified the UFO as the star Arcturus. Apparently the star appeared to be moving due to the motion of the car.

Neil Tyson said the same thing as you about getting an artifact from the alien ship next time you're abducted, whether it's an ash tray or anything else, he thinks it will be interesting if it came off an alien spaceship and he'd like to see it. He doesn't deny that some UFOs could be alien spaceships, but like most scientists would like some evidence before concluding that's what they are, which, when some people think Arcturus is a UFO, isn't such a bad idea.

And you probably saw the youtube clip of what the guy in your avatar said about flying saucers, right?

Most scientists have high standards for wanting to see extraordinary evidence to support extraordinary claims. That's the issue, it's not that they are afraid to talk about it, as Neil Tyson explained.

If scientists are reluctant to study UFO's formally. Why not study all the evidence of cover up or misinformation. Seems to me there are tons of examples and plenty of information that clearly demonstrates something is not right when it comes to TPTB and ufo's. I find it really frustrating that scientists fail to include this fact of camoflage, ridicule and even intimidation and other tactics that try to throw researchers off the scent. Why can't people see the great lengths the fed's go to to see that nothing substantial ever comes to light. SEems like a lot of effort for a bunch of nutters and fairy tales to me.
"Thou doth protest too much."

Is not part of the problem getting funding to actually study UFO's and the Under water travelling UFO's?

We seem to have two taboo subjects that are met with deliberate ridicule and our scholars appear to had had their curiosity dowsed - which the one thing a scholar should have is curiosity in buckets.

We appear not to be able to question past history and UFO's. I remember a Cambridge Professor of History saying that it was well time that ancient and not so ancient history was rewritten because of the knowledge that has been found and verified for some time, yet no-one wants to pick up that mantle.

Perhaps we should be looking at the reasons such as who says why not, as opposed to why won't Scientists, which may not apply once we know the why not and who is behind it.

reply to post by 1questioner

I can't stand when Stephen Hawking starts blabbing all about them like he's some expert. What the hell does he know more about concerning them than the next guy?

and p.s.
admitting they've been intellectually stonewalling all these years might be a good start.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


Interesting points, but I somewhat disagree. At the very least, we would have paid for research studies. I can think of numerous that need to be undertaken and if they were might reveal something to help us progress.

Hynek, from what I can tell, didn't do in depth studies, by which I mean he didn't go out with IR equipment and monitor UFO hotspots for a length of time (which I feel is a necessary procedure, you can't just turn up somewhere where there *had* been a sighting and expect to gain evidence, you need to do pro-active actual 'try and catch' routines).

In science we all learn method, results, conclusion.

Method should not equal "Go and speak to a witness", but for project blue book, that's pretty much all the "method" was, wasn't it? So the results and conclusion are going to be inaccurate and false IMO. If the method was "Observe a UFO hotspot" (ie Silbury Hill crop circle area over its most prolific months, July usually) "with night vision equipment, multiple observers" etc then I think you actually have a half decent method from which to gain much more conclusive 'results'.

So when scientists do begin to look into it, I think we would begin to see more formulaic approaches to getting to the bottom of it. Despite being a big fan of eye witness testimony and reports, we'll never make conclusions or have good results based on "methods" that are taking place AFTER the events occur. You need to catch them in the act.

And I know too well that if I invested the time and money I'd be able to. So scientists have an even better chance.

What strikes me as very familiar, is the part of this article which refers to the possibility of an individual scientist getting hassled by his or her peers if they express a public interest in such topics as these. This is NOT, contrary to the opinion of the interveiwee, a phrase most often used by skeptics and debunkers, but by anyone who examines the evidence for why the subject has not recieved more professional attention.

What the interveiwee leaves out of his statements, is the REASON why it is difficult to study UFO from a position of scientific awareness, without getting grief from other similarly educated folks. The simple fact is, that the subject as a whole is confounded at every turn by hoaxers, crackpots, and nutters of every stripe. Some morons have even turned the possibility of the existence of extra terrestrial life in the universe, into a psuedo religious cult, requiring and being unprepared to search for, any evidence what so ever. What these folks do instead is claim (in a manner which cannot possibly be tested for in any rigorous or fool proof method) that they are in contact with aliens via meditation and the like. Say what you like about that, but even if this were true it would have no scientific value because it is an untestable method, that only those who can meditate to the correct "vibration rate" ( I may vomit if I ever utter those words again, related to this topic), will be able to participate in, which will skew the result before the test has begun and invalidates the whole process.

And this is just one example of the type of deluded halfwittery which any researcher or scientist should expect to encounter upon any quest for truth in these matters. It is BECAUSE the subject is so totally awash with this sort of psuedo religious hogwash, that individual scientists do not wish to involve themselves, because the sheer breadth of idiocy spoken by some of the biggest voices on the subject, makes the entire endevour look foolish, and by association with it, makes the scientists themselves look foolish to thier peers.

This is simply how it is. Now,either some scientists will have to bite the bullet, rest thier entire careers from this point forth on the search for UFO and extra terrestrial life, suffer the indignity of slurs and so on from former collegues, become associated with some dull eyed half wits who think aliens talk to them through metallic elements in thier dentistry, or the subject and its advocates, must cleanse themselves of association with total nutters, in order that science can really be applied by professional and qualified personages and organisations.

I find the reference in the article, to un-published research and study of this subject, to be very interesting. I have long believed that there would have to be individuals amongst the scientific community, who would find the very idea of an airborne phenomenon very interesting, and would wish to probe deeper into it, without attracting too much attention. One would imagine that the preliminary findings of these researches must have come to some interesting conclusions, if the author decided not to publish them out of fear of ridicule. I would dearly like to get my hands on some of that material, and hopefully the shift towards a more widely accepted veiw of this subject, will lead to the release of many more, independant scientific studies of UFO and surrounding topics.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Say we had every notable scientist studying this phenomenon for the last 20 years. How much further along do you think we would be to an answer today? No tangible evidence has come up over these years that can be taken to a laboratory and scientifically studied. In fact, over the last 65 years and many tens of thousands of sightings, landings, abductions, etc., not one piece of tangible evidence has come about. I'm not talking about a phenomenon that only consists of reports of things flying around in the sky. It's reports of physical landings, crashes, interactions, and abductions. Yet, we have nothing physical.

Physical evidence is something the authorities will snatch up and set on with no report forthcoming to the public. We wouldn't know anything about it.

There are a fair number of cases where it has been reported that physical evidence was recovered. The results of such are not going to be made public for any number of reasons. One important reason is that physical evidence verifies witness testimony.......and we just cant have that.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I think it will continue to be deliberately ignored.

I mean think about the psychologists. Even the arm chair one's who frequent this site. They label those who have abnormal/paranormal experiences as delusional and crazy. Actually, go to lengths to convince them they are crazy!

So if it becomes accepted - what do you think will happen to those psychologists who labeled all those people a crazy/delusional person? Will they be hauled into court and stripped of everything as they should? Or just pardoned - ooopsssieee we were wrong. Sorry, dude, I know we said you were a schizo and now melted your brain down with meds - but we didn't know! We really did think you were crazy!

Too much to lose, to much to answer for - for disclosure to come out now.

Cirque

I agree. If you are sensing things that are not noticed by others the it will be labeled as Tactile Hallucinations by the psychologists (allknowing ). It is scary how small minded humans have become.

Look at something more down to earth, yet revolutionary...the theory of Electric Universe....
Virtually every prediction made by the theorists have been spot on.......yet we do not even consider the implications of the theory nor take any special notice.......Yet its revolutionary thinking at its finest, and holds
much promise of giving us another eye with which to view whats happening around us.....
Science, by its very structure, reflects the mainstream dogmas and discourages origonal thinking .
The PTB have subtle ways of hoarding all the new useable science in order to maintain an edge on the great unwashed.....This is the measure of their control.
As people have become more educated, they have had to become more brutal in their efforts to maintain the status quo.
The science" we are fed is woefully behind the knowledge they hoard.

Pilots are also admitting more and more that they see things in the air that shouldn't be there.

And more are confident enough to make a real report and talk about it, where for a long time it was a fast track way to ruin any respect you may have had among pilots and aviation people (not to mention airlines).

Before pilots would only mention seeing UFOs between close friends or family and not in a very serious way.

My father used to work on planes in the militry and told me its far far more common than anyone was willing to admit and that on a long flight moving a fast jet he himself saw something he could not explain (and told me in pretty good detail what he saw) He also said that some times footage gets copied before its destroyed for the pilots personal stash, which made me ask "so theres better, possibly, game changing footage that exists that the public has not seen?", he replied "absolutely and ive seen some of them, i know for sure theres some very detailed footage in various country's archives which has been 'officially deleted'" - pretty interesting, no?

Originally posted by Biigs
He also said that some times footage gets copied before its destroyed for the pilots personal stash, which made me ask "so theres better, possibly, game changing footage that exists that the public has not seen?", he replied "absolutely and ive seen some of them, i know for sure theres some very detailed footage in various country's archives which has been 'officially deleted'" - pretty interesting, no?

Yes very interesting. All the good footage even civilian gets snatched up.

I knew of a UFO "researcher" that used to go around the country at private engagements and was shocked at some of the footage he had. None of its on Ytube. The military produced many feet of UFO film and be sure most of its is out of sight now.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
What strikes me as very familiar, is the part of this article which refers to the possibility of an individual scientist getting hassled by his or her peers if they express a public interest in such topics as these. This is NOT, contrary to the opinion of the interveiwee, a phrase most often used by skeptics and debunkers, but by anyone who examines the evidence for why the subject has not recieved more professional attention.

What the interveiwee leaves out of his statements, is the REASON why it is difficult to study UFO from a position of scientific awareness, without getting grief from other similarly educated folks. The simple fact is, that the subject as a whole is confounded at every turn by hoaxers, crackpots, and nutters of every stripe.

Much of which as been show by some to be simply smoke created by those that wish to keep the issue clouded.

The truth is disclosure of physical evidence is only going to be presented to a very small number of scientists for a close look and these are going to be sworn to secrecy. In addition the only real advantage science has over the rest of us is in analyzing nut and bolts composition. Analyzing film footage is another matter. Analyzing witness testimony is another matter.

reply to post by 1questioner



While I think it's great that the "mainstream" is finally getting over the taboo, statements like this are problematic:

"UFOs are real phenomena. They are artificial objects under intelligent control. They're definitely the craft of a supremely advanced technology," says physicist Eric Davis, a researcher of light-speed travel.

UFOs ARE a real phenomena.

They are artificial objects under intelligent control.

We don't know that, if we did, they wouldn't be UFO's. Some of them *could* be, we don't know yet.

They're definitely the craft of a supremely advanced technology

They aren't definitely anything, that's why they are UFO's.

You want the real reason scientists, even those who firmly believe that aliens are out there, won't touch UFOLOGY? Because UFO = Aliens for far too many people for them to bother having to repeat that UFO stands for unidentified flying object.

I want to know what they are too, so we can't just hop around saying they are "definitely" this or that, until we can prove it.

Some videos that don't appear to be doctored, do show lights exhibiting almost impossible aerobatics. Impossible for a craft, not necessarily energy, or a natural phenomena.

We've got to reduce the stigma of UFOs. Plenty of discoveries could have been made earlier if not for being taboo subjects, who is to say this isn't one of them? If these UFO events are taking place as spread-out geographically, and often, as reports indicate it shouldn't take scientists that long to at least properly document the phenomena, let alone start to study it.

We're gearing up for more missions to Mars including manned ones, I'd think we're getting close to critical mass, if it's happening, we're close to the point that it will become undeniable even for the cynical and hardcore skeptics.

Originally posted by Outrageo
Having been in academia most of my adult life, allow me to offer two points:

1. Scientists are rarely independently wealthy. Thus, they must seek meaningful employment to sustain themselves. There are NO (extant) jobs for scientists to study this phenomena. No funding. No support. Besides the "stigma" attached to admitting interest in the field, other than a few astrobiologists (who would never admit to be looking for UFOs), and a couple of underfunded, frequently ridiculed SETI-types - there is no professional opportunity to make a living in the field.

2. There is nothing tangible to study. No board of administrators or regents will approve a proposal to examine UFOs or Aliens when there are no UFOs or Aliens to examine.

We can debate their existence, we can speculate on origins, we can probe the minds of claimed abductees to some extent, we can look at regional or even global "interpretations" of the enigma, we can even formulate post-contact scenarios, etc., but you won't get a dime in funding to do so.

Thus, we are left with several dozen very dedicated, very inquisitive independent thinkers that churn out books, or appear in television documentaries, or give lectures at conferences in order to eke out a living (e.g., Friedman, Knapp, Good, Kean, et al).

What we need is not just open-minded scientists -I think there are plenty of those to go around. We need a few wealthy individuals or institutions (a la Bezos, Gates, Branson, etc...) to step up and say:

"Here's a few million dollars. Let's gather some good minds and launch a scientific study/program into this phenomenon."

It's amazing to me, actually, that no such deep-pocket has done so. Guys like Bill Gates STILL are pulling in 50 BILLION annually. You mean there isn't enough curiosity and wherewithal among all the world's wealthy to cough up a tiny fraction of that to DISCOVER THE TRUTH??

Sad indeed...

Hey, you there! Get back to work!

There's been a few wealthy backers of UFO research, space entrepeneur Bigelow springs to mind. I see a few issues with actually pursuing the research, although I agree it would be nice to have the finance to do some proper studies

- You will very likely get involved in researching black projects especially in the US. To date there has been no proper studies of 'black triangles' and little media exposure although the number of witnesses in the US is very large , one of the reasons I suspect is that they are classified air force planes. It seems most folks really are afraid of getting in trouble with big brother.

- Where to start? Bigelow sponsored some unreliable research at 'skywalker' ranch, where do you pin down the UFOs? They are inherently unpredictable. How do you avoid the wackos feeding off your cash and making you look like a wacko yourself? Steven Greer anybody?

- Are the UFOs still visiting us or 'showing' themselves? If not, the research will not get anywhere. So be it I guess.



If it was up to me I'd start a few projects to cover the bases.somewhat
- Find out more about ball lightning and research plasma formation
- Research earthlights and their relationship to geology and electromagnetism

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Say we had every notable scientist studying this phenomenon for the last 20 years. How much further along do you think we would be to an answer today? No tangible evidence has come up over these years that can be taken to a laboratory and scientifically studied. In fact, over the last 65 years and many tens of thousands of sightings, landings, abductions, etc., not one piece of tangible evidence has come about. I'm not talking about a phenomenon that only consists of reports of things flying around in the sky. It's reports of physical landings, crashes, interactions, and abductions. Yet, we have nothing physical.

There doesn't really need to be a scientific program. After all, look at J Allen Hynek. He studied UFOs for the Air Force and came up with no real conclusion. The answer isn't that complicated. All it would take is one of the thousands of average Joes that are witnesses to landings, or that have been abducted, to bring the scientific community that one piece of something. That would be the undeniable evidence that alien beings are behind UFOs.

It would be undeniable evidence that something very different exists, but not tell us who or what made them or what they are. What you mean is PHYSICAL evidence of something extraordinary. That seems to be missing, although we do have radar plots and sightings of extraordinary things flying around, so there is evidence, but because it can't be held in your hand and poked and prodded, it doesn't seem to be accepted as PHYSICAL evidence. Which is fair enough, although it can be hard to get physical evidence of an entity that's far more advanced than you, and that by it's very nature most likely control to some extent some or all of space, time and our memories.

So you could have an event, an error on their part, but if the entity has the ability to enter our minds, we are at a loss to process these events objectively. It could be that's it's simply not in our power to reveal the truth. Can a mouse in a laboratory experiment voluntarily leave that experiment. Can they even figure out what's going on? They simply don't have the tools or the opportunity to do that.

That's a logical assumption that's only one step along from the first very logical assumption that there are likely intelligent entities and civilisations far in advance of us and they should exist through the universe. If they display greater technological prowess they are 99.99999999% likely to be far in advance of our technological abilities. Not just a step or two ahead. But FAR ahead.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
reply to post by 1questioner

 

Let's hope so because for too long this subject has been openly ignored by scientists

Carl Jung didn't ignore it, he wrote a book about it. He's a scientist.

His book is still ahead of its time, and if modern scientists take the ET mythos literally, then it always will be.