Nasa says chemtrails are real ?

reply to post by fiftyfifty


adding to your edit:

I've seen that bit...but it states..."naturally occurring"...don't know if it makes a difference for your argument.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

adding to your edit:

I've seen that bit...but it states..."naturally occurring"...don't know if it makes a difference for your argument.

Well in your argument, Lithium is Lithium so what's the difference? You are ignoring the fact that Lithium comes in many forms. As do other naturally occurring elements. It's all about the concentration, the compound and the way it is dispersed. These all make significant difference. Is there anything to suggest that the Lithium NASA released was anything other than the naturally occurring type?

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

not intentionally...I'm mostly a troll here. I don't do research...

I depend upon you guys to point me to errors.

So which is it...the guy on video said...they are spraying Lithium...

this is a direct c/p from wiki...with title Lithium...

Lithium is corrosive and requires special handling to avoid skin contact. Breathing lithium dust or lithium compounds (which are often alkaline) initially irritate the nose and throat, while higher exposure can cause a buildup of fluid in the lungs, leading to pulmonary edema. The metal itself is a handling hazard because of the caustic hydroxide produced when it is in contact with moisture. Lithium is safely stored in non-reactive compounds such as naphtha

If I'm mixing things...point me to it...I assure you...I'm a reasonable man.

And please, if you can direct me to a source which lists widespread cases of these side effects, I will gladly take a look. I am unaware of any such incidents and I, myself seem to be perfectly fine.

Also, it hasn't gone unnoticed that we are talking about a rocket releasing lithium into the upper atmosphere where it would disperse to practically zero concentration anywhere on the ground, rather than thick white trails left by airliners. You realise how illogical your argument is right?

reply to post by fiftyfifty


I realize there is a difference in altitude and perhaps concentration. But I'm always weary.

20-30 years ago...people didn't know asbestos causes cancer. It was all over our houses, schools, buildings, even today...it's still found on older buildings. Using asbestos in housing today would get you jail time...

I guess, something you seek about Lithium is unavailable in this moment...maybe nobody did a study on the long term exposure to lithium compounds. As I say...I'm just pasting "facts" about it from wiki and confirming facts from what the guy at NASA acknowledged.

As for conclusions...I didn't make any.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Maybe this paper will help clear a few things up - Source

No information is available on cancer caused by treatment with lithium, and it is highly unlikely that lithium is carcinogenic.

This means that to date, no cancer cases have been linked to lithium.

Lithium was first used by psychiatrists in the mid-1800s [2]. The first controlled trial of lithium for unipolar depression was in 1968.

- Source

I think we can safely say that Lithium does not cause Cancer.

The phrase clutching at straws comes to mind.

Lithium released that high is not a big problem. Although Lithium has anti-psychotic properties, a small amount of the ion is necessary for us. It is in most everything we eat and is in very small concentrations in the air naturally. I doubt that what NASA is doing is harmful because of the height of the release, it will be pretty diluted by the time it reaches the ground. If it was controversial, they would not be freely telling people that they are doing it.

Now if they were doing this at lower levels, I would be concerned, and noone will admit that they are. I would bet that if it is deemed safe at high altitudes, it is also deemed safe at lower altitudes. Not safe enough for NASA to do it though, that would be bad publicity, something they are not interested in. We have other scientific organizations that are not so conscious in this country though. They would look the other way and use misapplied evidence so they can gain financial gain. Even something that is not considered for profit is actually profiting someone most times. If you are getting a big salary from a non profit organization, you tend to believe in the organizations good points and consider their flaws part of business.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


well...I really didn't want to imply that Lithium causes cancer...I was using asbestos as an example that we don't always know what the consequences are in the long run...


but let's go wildly conspiratorial for a moment here...just for fun...

You mentioned usage of Lithium in medicine...for treating bipolar...

Let's say that some of this lithium that they spray..does fall to the ground...( you claim it disperses and disolves in the upper atmosphere...but we can't know that for sure...can we?)...and it falls in the water...

and..let's wildly assume...that people drink that water (can we exclude that wind and rain does not bring any of that stuff back down on earth...?) couldn't it be that effect on those people would be...mildly sedative? Keeping you docile and disinterested?

Lithium Side Effects About 75% of people who take lithium for bipolar disorder have some side effects, although they may be minor. They may become less troublesome after a few weeks as your body adjusts to the drug. Sometimes, side effects of lithium can be relieved by tweaking the dose. However, never change your dose or drug schedule on your own. Do not change the brand of lithium without checking with your doctor or pharmacist first. If you are having any problems, talk to your doctor about your options. Common side effects of lithium can include: Hand tremor (If tremors are particularly bothersome, an additional medication can help.) Increased thirst Increased urination Diarrhea Vomiting Weight gain Impaired memory Poor concentration Drowsiness Muscle weakness Hair loss Acne Decreased thyroid function (which can be treated with thyroid hormone)

Now I realize...this is all out there...and wildly speculative...but this is a conspiracy board...and I like to entertain speculation on both ends of the extreme. That doesn't mean I'll go protesting at NASA HQ

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Your theory is somewhat plausible to a degree but I don't think that the amount falling into the water would be enough to make a noticable difference. Most of the water on the planet is saltwater in the sea, If we aren't all glowing green from Fukushima yet, I doubt this comparatively small amount of Lithium would have any effect.

Even if, let's say somewhere the concentration was high enough to have sedative effects, wouldn't this be counter-productive? Those with any agenda surely rely on the little cogs in the machine to keep the money moving around, goods being manufactured and shipped around the world. A healthy, mentally aware population is much more useful than a sedate, sick one. Like bees in a beehive, they produce the most honey when they are healthy and well looked after.

reply to post by rickymouse

They would look the other way and use misapplied evidence so they can gain financial gain.

good point and it is always somewhere in the back of my mind. Our civilization today is run and controlled by profit. Those that profit...sometimes don't think about consequences. Only profit matters. Remember Big Pharma. They can always buy their way out of any wrong doing.

I don't claim that NASA is doing that...but as I said...I like to be weary...that way..I'm rarely surprised.

reply to post by fiftyfifty

If we aren't all glowing green from Fukushima yet, I doubt this comparatively small amount of Lithium would have any effect.

Granted...the concentration would probably be way too low to do any real damage on a wider area...perhaps few people..here and there. Your argument stands.

Those with any agenda surely rely on the little cogs in the machine to keep the money moving around, goods being manufactured and shipped around the world. A healthy, mentally aware population is much more useful than a sedate, sick one. Like bees in a beehive, they produce the most honey when they are healthy and well looked after.

You know...this is a reasonable assumption on your part...even I would think so...yet...recently I have realized that not everybody in higher up positions thinks that way.

Let me trouble you with a recent comment I've been given in my workplace...by one of the heads of department in my firm. Last year...we were all given a 20 % pay cut...due to recession and all...except..that big shots were later given back that pay cut under the table...so as not to make them mad. Due to this there was some discontent among those of us (foot soldiers) who knew of this (not everybody knew).

Because of this...many people quit the firm...those that could afford to quit or were confident to find another job. The busyness suffered...we were/are terribly understaffed..projects remained...pay was cut, and the amount of work was same...with 20 % less people employed.

You know what the director of our department told us:

"None you matter"..."only board of directors, the higher ups matter"....

I don't get that man...it is as if they don't understand,..that without us foot soldiers doing the most of the work..they wouldn't have anything to sign...anything to negotiate...anything to sell...anything to produce. They simply don't see it that way. They probably feel there will always be enough desperate people...that will do the work even for less pay...


sorry for this off topic...

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Sorry to hear you are having problems, businesses can be greedy and do you know what? It will always lead to the demise of the company. Greed is probably number one on the list for the causes of the global recession. But lets not forget that what you are talking about, even the directors of your firm would be victims to chemtrailing if it were a real threat. Using my analogy, the infighting at your company is within the hive and a completely separate issue. It has nothing to do with the beekeeper.

I think I have made my point here and exhausted my useful input. Kudos for keeping it civil!

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by cklein61

 

Oh yay, I get to poo poo on chemtrails again.

Did you actually listen to it?

They are releasing lithium (harmless) in the upper atmosphere to help understand the physics behind our environment, mainly, the wind patters at higher altitudes.

the important things in this recording are:

Lithium is harmless
It's release at much higher altitudes than jets
It can not be seen with the naked eye, you need specially designed cameras

So.... guess what that means?

*big grin*

Not a single piece of chemtrail evidence that has been "supplied" is valid.

I'm sorry, I do not trust TPTB to be honest about what is "harmless" and what is not!

reply to post by Qubert


Sarcasm was deserved in that post. The lithium being released was being released far above where planes fly, so that they can understand the winds. Even if they released massive amounts from the rocket, it wouldn't affect people on the ground. By the time that it reached ground level it would be so dispersed (this is the same problem with chemtrails too), that it would be harmless, because you'd barely be able to detect it, if you could at all.

And just because more people are unaware of how new jet engines work, and how contrails are formed, etc and believe something they read online doesn't mean that it's true, or that it's happening.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
So we can conclude that...

Chemtrails exist...and the atmosphere is being sprayed...with Lithium...only not from a plane over us...but with a rocket on a much higher altitude?

Is that the core of it?

You seem to be arguing:
"It is possible to spread chemicals in the air via a rocket, THEREFORE chemtrails exist."

I suppose that is true in the broadest sense, but the term "Chmetrails" almost always refers to the white puffy trails that are created by a plane flying at high altitudes. Obviously, the OP is trying to link this story about this rocket to those puffy white trails left by planes -- but there is no link. It's apples and oranges.


I mean, using your logic, crop dusting is proof the chemtrails exist. Insecticide spraying from a plane or helicopter is proof...even fire suppression chemicals being dropped from a plane on a forest fire is proof of chemtrails. However, none of those things have anything to do with the argument that those white trails left by jets are chemtrails or simply vapor contrails.

Using that definition of "chemtrail" (i.e., any chemical being dispersed into the air, from the air, for any reason), do you really need NASA to "admit" chemtrails -- again, using that broad definition.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

But I'm always weary.

You're always tired?

Take naps.

Drink coffee.

Get 7-8 hours of sleep a night.

If none of that helps, perhaps see a doctor.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


sorry..perhaps I used a wrong word...English is not my mother tongue. I meant to say...cautious.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


You are right...but what I was getting at...is that I was under the impression that the term "chemtrails" was specifically invented to describe what we are talking about here...and on numerous threads I have seen debunkers on the subject claiming that there are no Chemtrails...only Contrails...

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Because there aren't, as described by believers. They say that any contrail that lasts longer than a few minutes has to be a contrail. They are left by aircraft flying overhead, not rockets being fired into the upper atmosphere as experiments. According to them chemtrails occur every day, sometimes all day, from morning to night, in all areas of the world. Not one or two rockets in NASA experiments. So in this case, yes, this was a chemtrail, but no it's not proof they exist, nor does it fit chemtrails as described by believers.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Qubert

 

And just because more people are unaware of how new jet engines work, and how contrails are formed, etc and believe something they read online doesn't mean that it's true, or that it's happening.

Therefore truth only comes from the officials, right? Give me a break...
I can't afford to feel that much relaxed.
And, just because the guy said it's lithium, it doesn't mean it's true, you know, they have the ability to lie too.

reply to post by zilebeliveunknown


Then study engines on your own. The information on how they work is open source, and easy to find. If you don't trust official sources, do your own homework. It's not hard. It's also been sourced by many non-official sources, studied by many non-official groups. But of course, that doesn't matter right? If they agree with anything you deem "official" they must be bought and lying.