French president threatens to block EU trade negotiations with the US amid bugging scandal

I wish they would follow through with it

I have heard not much here as to the facts of a total and complete violation of the rights of the American people as spelled out very clearly in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Herein lies the problem and not so ironically, therein lies the solution.

The American government, under the auspices of the NSA, and it allied agencies has surrendered it right to govern as a free and independent nation. The abrogation of the rule of law; the dissolution of the separation of powers, and the complete disregard for the cherished inheritance of the founders is apparent, and these are the issues we need be concerned about. These are the things that the Snowden revelations have brought to bear on all Americans, notwithstanding their ill effects on our relations with other nations.

reply to post by Flavian


Any form of spying in "friendly" countries is unacceptable. No matter what side. You should stop trying to justify it by saying, "oh but everyone does it!!" as that is a tactic used by idiot children.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
1. America is not in a state of war.


Spying on an foreign power (such as China or Russia) is valid when it comes to military dominance, and economic impact when at war. People expect their security services to be carrying out this work.

Using such tactics against allies, for economic dominance in peacetime, is an act of aggression.

I am not sure that this is true.

If necessary I think if America needed to argue the point, it could declare it is at war and has been at war since 9/11.

It has been at war with terrorism. It will claim to be a worldwide war against terrorism.

This is probably documented somewhere that America is technically is War.

Obamas reply- I only found out we were bugging you when I read it in the newspaper this morning.

Typical American reply- what’s the French going to do, stop shipping in French frys?

I live in the UK. The BBC are down playing. So I watch RTC and my lord even Aljazeera!


Cone on BBC get your act together please.

Of course these agencies spy on everyone.
This isn't a surprise.

The danger in all of this are the allegations of blackmail.
The depth of information gathering at hand here gives the NSA a TREMENDOUS amount of leverage over ANYONE they are data mining. Judges, lawyers, policy makers, leaders.

The NSA now has all of their secrets.
THAT is the real danger.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


That is partially true, America is currently involved in a bloody war against itself, but not against terrorism. Surely the old terrorism line has reached it's used by date, as I'm sure most people in Europe are aware 911 was an inside job, and most likely all other terrorist attacks committed since. Simply to justify this Orwellian thing we are now living in.

I have actually been speaking about this to folks for a while now,
the fallout for us internationally will be bad, our government has
gone way way way way too far this time and i really dont think
they know what to do, i have a feeling they already know this
is gonna blow up and are more than likely shredding anything
they can get their hands on right now, if justice even existed
in our government there should have been a major reaction and
then even bigger action to prevent the destruction of evidence
right when this broke...... i am tired of lies and secrets.

I think many here just don't get it ! Other nations do not want the Americans doing to them what they do to themselves. Its disrespectful of their sovereignty.

Pay attention - this is no small matter to the people of other nations. They don't care for us and they especially don't appreciate being raped by a bully.

Growing Alarm: German Prosecutors to Review Allegations of US Spying
SPIEGEL has learned that the German Federal Prosecutors' Office is looking into allegations that a US intelligence agency has conducted massive spying against German citizens. A first formal complaint has already been lodged in one city.
======================================================================================

Skull/Bones Kerry makes light of it all as do many here in these threads.

Spying on allies is not unusual': John Kerry hits back at claim US bugged 38 foreign embassies as Angela Merkel brands it 'unacceptable'
• Microphones were put in building and computers compromised as spooks targeted EU in Washington and UN offices in New York
• Secretary of State Kerry says bugging 'not unusual' in international relations
• Germany's Angela Merkel spokesman says 'bugging friends is unacceptable'
• Head of European Parliament demands 'clarification' from US, warning of rift
• Der Spiegel says 'strictly confidential' document was leaked by Ed Snowden

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Ui6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The facts that are being revealed at the moment were alluded to by Assange a few years ago.

He hinted about this in interviews about the massive numbers involved and the kind of surveillance going on. Its hard to get your head around this but it is how society is being run at the moment.

The US is spying on the whole planet. It is keeping all this information.It is using all this information. From controlling other governments right down to controlling the general populations.

Its all about control. With all the information at its disposal it can control the major direction of the majority of humans on this planet.

It manipulates people with the information it has gathered.

Humans are no different than other animals. They react in herds. Scare a few of the herd and they will warn the rest of the herd and you control the direction of the herd and WHERE U WANT THE HERD TO GO.

HOW DO YOU CONTROL THE DIRECTION OF THE HUMAN RACE ON THIS PLANET? You observe. You gather information. You analyze the information. You learn how to cause a reaction from the subject. You learn how to cause the reaction YOU want from the subject. You cause the reaction you want. You have control.

The revelations of the mass surveillance and data gathering been carried out by the US is disturbing. It is on a scale never seen before in our history. People who have tried to conquer the world before would be very impressed by this feat currently been undertaken by the US.

reply to post by Samuelis


Lets not forget the BILLIONS we've already paid for the F-35 Strike Fighter, which we won't receive for another decade or so.

F-35 Strike FLOP

Unfortunately the Aussie Government is always trying to suck up to the US Government, and the US Government are controlled by Corporations such as Lockheed, Monsanto etc.

What amazes me is that this stuff (the foreign spying and blackmail allegations) are easily one of the most dangerous stories I have ever read brought to these boards.

It is very possible, and even probable, at this point.

Yet the stories are getting very little play here.

Are people afraid of this information? They should be. This is one of those conspiracies it would be wise not to dig into, if you catch my drift.

But I am a bit shocked that very few people are even discussing it at all

No surprise considering the French have the least to gain out of all the European states in a free trade agreement between the EU and US. They are the least competitive country inside the EU and know that further competition with the US on top of the already stiff competition against nations like the UK and Germany could prove hazardous to their domestic economy...France is simply looking at a way to throw a wrench into the whole thing. This gives them the out they've been looking for.

I also have a strong suspicion this is why Michael Hastings was killed.

Originally posted by lacrimaererum HERE
The revelations of the mass surveillance and data gathering been carried out by the US is disturbing. It is on a scale never seen before in our history. People who have tried to conquer the world before would be very impressed by this feat currently been undertaken by the US.

Precisely - and this is what I want people here to understand and what I was referring to here in a previous post in the thread. Thank you..........

Originally posted by JayinAR
But I am a bit shocked that very few people are even discussing it at all

I think it is a lot to take in.

Its making people question everything about themselves and this planet.

Everything they are doing is being watched.

Its like the NSA are GOD. They are everywhere all of the time. They know everything.

Somewhere , somebody knows all your dirty little secrets.

FEAR.

People are scared.

So now the info is out there.

Will people decide to bring this system to end, stop the system?

or will people simply be too scared and CONFORM? Do what they are told.

Its crunch time folks. This will determine the future.

reply to post by Guadeloupe


This reminds me of the young man that hacked into Sarah Palin's email? I think a son of an acting member of congress.

Snowden definitely has more to lend to the world; Russia would have not allowed him to "hang out" in transit at the airport since they already have a spy in custody. I recall reading that Snowden was being paid around 133k from Booz Allen. (Not sure if this is true - the Guardian comes to mind but I can't check the source now.)

I am quite bothered by the COTUS and POTUS for demanding his head on a platter; it seems to be a bit backwards. I would think that hacking into our personal data is a crime - if I would have done any of this data mining - in the amount of zettabytes aka alotabytes; I would be in the po po! Lastly if it were in the employee/employer realm of a private business, I think they would call it insubordination.

Democracy is no more - the COTUS/POTUS are not workding for Jack and Jane Does of America!!!

reply to post by Guadeloupe


This reminds me of the young man that hacked into Sarah Palin's email? I think a son of an acting member of congress.

Snowden definitely has more to lend to the world; Russia would have not allowed him to "hang out" in transit at the airport since they already have a spy in custody. I recall reading that Snowden was being paid around 133k from Booz Allen. (Not sure if this is true - the Guardian comes to mind but I can't check the source now.)

I am quite bothered by the COTUS and POTUS for demanding his head on a platter; it seems to be a bit backwards. I would think that hacking into our personal data is a crime - if I would have done any of this data mining - in the amount of zettabytes aka alotabytes; I would be in the po po! Lastly if it were in the employee/employer realm of a private business, I think they would call it insubordination.

Democracy is no more - the COTUS/POTUS are not working for Jack and Jane Does of America!!!

reply to post by mcsandy


They are reporting now that Putin is flatly saying that he will not release Snowden to the US "under any circumstances". Things are ramping up.

I fear that the US is about to lose a lot of allies.