MMA, Boxing, and Brain Damage

reply to post by Kody27


De La Hoya Wiki

Mayweather

Yeah it is and if you ever boxed seriously you would understand the difference. Yes USA boxing officials will stop fights after only a clean shot unless its the golden gloves or PAL nationals, or other tournaments.

I see a lot of examples of the poor examples in boxing but let me show you two positive example of people who weren't on drugs and did train properly.

Oscar De La Hoya (born February 4, 1973)[1][2] is a retired American professional boxer of Mexican descent. Nicknamed "The Golden Boy," De La Hoya won a gold medal at the Barcelona Olympic Games shortly after graduating from James A. Garfield High School.

De La Hoya was born in East Los Angeles, California, and comes from a boxing family. His grandfather Vicente, father Joel Sr. and brother Joel Jr. were all boxers. De La Hoya was The Ring's "Fighter of the Year" in 1995 and Ring Magazine's top-rated Pound for Pound fighter in the world in 1997 & 1998. De La Hoya officially announced his retirement from the sport at a press conference held in Los Angeles on April 14, 2009.

De La Hoya has defeated 17 world champions and has won ten world titles in six different weight classes.[3][4] He has also generated more money than any other boxer in the history of the sport,[5] an estimated $696 million pay-per-view income.[6]

De La Hoya founded Golden Boy Promotions, a combat sport promotional firm. He is the first American of Hispanic descent to own a national boxing promotional firm and one of the few boxers to take on promotional responsibilities while still active.[7]

De La Hoya is known in the industry for being super intelligent, almost genius. Let me provide another example of someone who is known within the sport as one of the most intelligent boxers ever. You may not know this but people in the sport especially people within his training know him as very intelligent. What you see on TV isn't always true.

That helped make Mayweather the world’s highest-paid athlete over the past year, unseating Tiger Woods, who has been the top-earner since 2001. Woods ranks third this year with earnings of $59.4 million.

Floyd is known for handling his own marketing and negotiating his own contracts. Believe me what you see on TV isn't always the truth.

reply to post by onequestion


Also, yeah, I understand the mentality of a fighter, having known a fair few myself.

I was merely saying that yeah, some of them ARE jerkoffs. I remember sitting in a bar/poolhall one night (mistake 1), and some dude walks in with an entourage. He starts going on and on about making his UFC debut soon. So, (mistake 2) I asked him where he trains (I had never seen him in any of the local gyms or even heard of him).

That one simple question nearly resulted in a brawl.

I think he thought I would back down. When I didn't his buddies drug him out.

But again, that behavior is an exception to the norm.

reply to post by JayinAR


I agree with you 100%.

The most important thing in any fight is to have a good referee and a good corner team.

The thing that actually scares me while watching a fight is to see someone get ringed so hard they go out on their feet. That is extremely dangerous. It is a good thing that refs are quicker to stop the action nowadays.

Back in the day they didn't stop fights until people went down.

I remember watching an Ali fight once where he pretended to be out on his feet between rounds and even into the next round.
So the bell rings and he wobbles into the middle of the ring and his opponent throws a hay-maker left hook and Ali dodges it and lays dude out with a single over hand right.

Genius.

But nowadays that wouldn't fly.

I've been trying to remember who that was he fought, but it is a bit like trying to recall who lost Super Bowl 18. Nobody really cares.
Dude got punked out - bad. It was awesome.

reply to post by Astrocyte


And how many people are damaged by other sports such as horseriding? manhy sports are dangerous. To single MMA and boxing out becasue of personal dislike is fine as we live in a free country. To try and use a quasi scientific analysis to justify as personal dislike is completely wrong.

Men should be free to be men in what manner they see fit provided it is legal


Tiger5

PS Please tell me that you do not drive a car or ride a bicycle!

reply to post by sulaw

So what exactly is the point of this? To say that something leads to brain damage? I received brain damage from reading this post.

Statements like this really irk me.

Do you know how scientists think? They think in terms of probability. I have been reading over and over again throughout this thread: "so, other sports are dangerous". Yes, but to a far LESSER degree. It's in the very nature of boxing and MMA to increase the odds of head injuries and brain damage when you're getting punches, elbows, knees, kicks and head buts to the head.

Take drinking and driving. I have seen people drink and drive - successfully - in that they didn't kill themselves or someone else on the way to their destination. But does that mean drinking and driving should be done? Driving in it itself has a higher probability of accidents than flying a plane. We do both these things. But the odds of hurting others and yourself in car accident while drunk is so high - the probability is so apparent - that we forbid it by law.

I'm not saying get rid of MMA. The point of this thread was more subtle than you were able to appreciate. It's for the purpose of discussing a strange social phenomenon: that some people (usually extroverts) are willing to risk a high probability of brain damage in exchange for the adrenaline rush and social accolades that come with the lifestyle. I find that to be amusing.

Being that you are the one who engages in the sport, you'll likely suffer cognitive dissonance after reading this. One piece of information: hits to the head, concussions, impaired brain functioning, conflicts with your philosophical interest in the sport.

I don't see why it should be impossible, however, for you to acknowledge: hey, you're right; MMA and Boxing poses a far higher risk of incurring brain damage than other sports. Still, the joy of the sport trumps any concern for my cognitive performance.

In doing that, you will be demonstrating self awareness. Maturity.

reply to post by Astrocyte


When you say that folks who participate in the sport are likely to display cognitive dissonance to your posts, what are you getting at?
That you would rather have this discussion solely with those who do NOT participate in the sport?
Seems a little one sided.

Also, the point stands that there are sports out there that are far more dangerous than fighting. Sports where mistake = death almost every time.

Why not call THOSE people idiots?

You see, your OP actually INSULTED people here. So spare me what "irks" you.

I would wager that you have a higher PROBABILITY of being severely injured playing football. Or at least just as high.

reply to post by JayinAR


Im pretty sure wrestling is the most injury prone sport. Nope....

Nope football..

reply to post by onequestion


I figured it was probably football. It seems every single football player in the world has been severely injured multiple times.

While they wear pads and junk the collisions are brutal. These people train to throw their entire body weight at an opponent in the most violent way possible.

Some of the injuries are downright gruesome, too.
I refuse to watch Marcus Lattimore's knee injury, for instance. It makes my knee hurt just thinking about it. Literally.

ETA: I can't even put a number on how many times I have seen a quarterback loft a pass over the middle of the field for a receiver only to see some safety run up and clean said receiver's clock as soon as the ball touches his hands. If you think a knee to the head is crazy, imagine some 6'3", 205lb dude who runs a 4.3 second 40 running at you full speed ahead and laying into you with all his might. Pads or not that ish is crazy. Football players deal with head injuries all the time.


ETA2: I have seen football players receive concussions severe enough that they immediately start vomiting. That's pretty bad.

Originally posted by Astrocyte

Do you know how scientists think? They think in terms of probability. I have been reading over and over again throughout this thread: "so, other sports are dangerous". Yes, but to a far LESSER degree. It's in the very nature of boxing and MMA to increase the odds of head injuries and brain damage when you're getting punches, elbows, knees, kicks and head buts to the head.

If the aim of the game was to hit an opponent who couldn't defend themself, you'd have a point, but as there is a lot of emphasis on defensive skills in combat sports, you haven't. Participants accept the risks and great efforts are made to try and avoid mismatches.

reply to post by Astrocyte


Are you an individual who exercises avidly? If not you are likely in worse condition physically than any of these sportsmen you are demeaning.

You seem to be suffering from the the 'woe is me I am so smart and no one appreciates it's'.


Obviously this thread was made because someone stole your lunch money.

FYI
JJ / Muay Thai background 9-0 amateur record and former sparring partner with some big names.

reply to post by JayinAR

When you say that folks who participate in the sport are likely to display cognitive dissonance to your posts, what are you getting at?

Yes, people who participate in MMA/Boxing are likely to dismiss or under-emphasize the fact that it will likely cause brain damage.

What am I getting at? I already said: its interesting as a social phenomenon. The only other people who could really appreciate this situation are people without any bias. The science supports my position; probabilistically, the odds are enormous that you will incur a concussion. And concussions are little strokes in the brain. And experiencing more than one concussion has a cumulative effect.

That you would rather have this discussion solely with those who do NOT participate in the sport? Seems a little one sided.

It doesn't matter. As a prediction, I expected for there to be people like you who would have trouble coming to terms with the real neurological risks involved in your sport. If anything, it adds to my thesis (argument) that the type of personality (extroversion, lets assume) one has determines his/her appreciation of the cognitive risks involved with contact sports.

Question: do you think a scientist, writer or philosopher - someone who spends a large portion of their days involved in reading, writing, and theorizing - would be willing to take the risk you've taken? Answer honestly. If the answer is "no", then why? The obvious reasoning would be because knowing the facts behind concussions, they wouldn't want to suffer brain damage and deal with the cognitive repercussions.

Also, the point stands that there are sports out there that are far more dangerous than fighting. Sports where mistake = death almost every time.

Do you have difficulty understanding probability?

I'm sorry for any tactlessness you might be noticing in my writing. But if you've followed my subsequent posts, you would have discovered that I've determined that there must be a sociological basis to the popularity of MMA/boxing. It's definitely not something that appeals to all types - introverts, mostly - but for many other people, their biology, psychological orientation, and lifestyle, supports an interest in these sorts of activities.

My simple point was: though it'll like cause some degree of brain damage.

I would wager that you have a higher PROBABILITY of being severely injured playing football.

Were talking about brain injuries - concussions. The body is much more resilient/durable than the brain. For example, you can cut a peripheral nerve in your finger, and even though you'll temporally lose feeling (if it happened to be a ergoreceptor), you'll gain that feeling back in a few weeks or months time. But if you happen to sever a nerve in your central nervous system - like in a spinal chord injury - it ain't growing back. The glia (a type of cell) in the CNS (central nervous system) treat trauma to nerve cells differently from trauma to nerve cells in the PNS (peripheral nervous system).

Your brain is the focal organ of your central nervous system. It is exquisitely sensitive. Have you ever seen a real live brain? Have you felt it? It feels like jello - it moves more gelatinously than jello does. During brain surgery, if the surgeon tilted the head of the patient over, parts of the neocortex (grey area) would fall out. That is how soft it is.

Learning something like this, and than thinking to yourself: "wow, there are people who willingly engage in activities where getting hit in the head is the object of the game". It's amazing.

It would be interesting to know how many MMA fighters and boxers go on to develop parkinsons and dementia later on in life. There must be some epidemological research on this.

reply to post by Astrocyte


Well you are talking about people who are physically inactive for long periods of time and there are serious health effects associated with that.

Risks of Physical Inactivity
www.hopkinsmedicine.org...

The lifestyle you are touting as superior is cited as being as potentially damaging to the body as contact sports.

You should probably add some stipulations which restrict the discussion to not include those conditions otherwise your whole premise becomes moot.

EDIT
Cardiovascular diseases are associated with sedentary lifestyle.

This means you are not likely getting enough oxygen to your brain which actually is as damaging as a concussive blow.

It also increases your risk for a stroke.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Are you an individual who exercises avidly? If not you are likely in worse condition physically than any of these sportsmen you are demeaning.

Workout 3-4 times a week. Play basketball 3-4 times a week. I live a minutes walk from a brand new leisure center. I take advantage of it.

Martial arts is fine. Sparring is also fine, so long as protecting your noggin and your brain remains a top priority of yours. Whats baffling, really and truly, is that some people are willing to fight even though concussions are a high probability occurrence. Still, if you do it, it's a little ridiculous not to admit to the dangers involved - to ignore the solid science which predicts that you will incur slight brain damage with increased odds of developing dementia and parkinsons disease later on, when neurological degeneration happens anyway; 1 out of 3 80 year olds has some form of dementia. Having experienced a concussion(s) increases that probability to 1/2.

Even the American Neurological association has called for the banning of sports which cause concussions - and the cumulative neurological effects they create.

reply to post by Astrocyte


So your saying we should eliminate combat sports from the spectrum of reality?

What are you talking about? Is this a troll thread? Everyone knows contact sports cause injuries if you don't like it or can't appreciate it go away.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


No where did I say nor suggest (not even give reason for you to make the asinine assumption..) that I am advocating a sedentary lifestyle. Living a sedentary lifestyle is as extreme as engaging in sports with high the odds of causing brain damage.

In between - the area where most people should be - is a mean where cognitive skills are sharpened (taken care of) unnecessary activities which increase the odds of brain damaged are avoided, but physical activity is abundantly engaged in.

Maybe I'm just being a pussy? Perhaps??? That would be the expected, predictable response from a person who can't deal with the information at hand.

In any case, if you read some of my earlier responses (which you are probably too lazy to do), you would have seen that I actually enjoy watching MMA; a primitive part in me delights in the whole roughness of it all. But I *(in italics) would never in a million years risk damage to my precious brain - the very organ which gives life and meaning to my world.

But, you can go on with your fantasies about me: it isn't actually the fact that the science (which you vacuously ignore) demonstrates the dangers of concussions on cognitive performance; no, it's because I was a weak little loser who got his lunch money stolen by big tough guys like you in highschool . You figured me out!

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by Astrocyte

 

So your saying we should eliminate combat sports from the spectrum of reality?

What are you talking about? Is this a troll thread? Everyone knows contact sports cause injuries if you don't like it or can't appreciate it go away.

Seriously, read my posts! Be diligent! If you go back to page one, the bottom of the page, you will read a post where I justify the existence of contact sports on evolutionary grounds.

The Neurological society of America is being a bit squeamish - overly nanny like. I do not support their position, but I did mention it to point out that the science DOES make clear that concussions are very bad things for the brain.

Originally posted by Astrocyte
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Are you an individual who exercises avidly? If not you are likely in worse condition physically than any of these sportsmen you are demeaning.

Workout 3-4 times a week. Play basketball 3-4 times a week. I live a minutes walk from a brand new leisure center. I take advantage of it.

Martial arts is fine. Sparring is also fine, so long as protecting your noggin and your brain remains a top priority of yours. Whats baffling, really and truly, is that some people are willing to fight even though concussions are a high probability occurrence. Still, if you do it, it's a little ridiculous not to admit to the dangers involved - to ignore the solid science which predicts that you will incur slight brain damage with increased odds of developing dementia and parkinsons disease later on, when neurological degeneration happens anyway; 1 out of 3 80 year olds has some form of dementia. Having experienced a concussion(s) increases that probability to 1/2.

Even the American Neurological association has called for the banning of sports which cause concussions - and the cumulative neurological effects they create.

Lifting weights and playing basketball is dangerous as both have the risk of disabling injuries which would lead to a sedentary life and thus the conditions associated with it.

How could anyone engage in an activity which could cause increased risk of a sedentary lifestyle.

^ This is what your argument looks like to everyone else.

EDIT
Actually I read the entire thread . . . Your assumptions are way off.

I am no "big tough guy" I am 5'8'' 153lbs. I have a BS in consumer science with a focus on psychological profiling to target consumers. I am currently in my last year working towards an engineering degree.

I may not fit your assumptions but, ironically, you fit mine.