Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by butcherguy
Difficult to prove.
Impossible actually.
It is entirely possible that I am the only conscious being in existence and that everything else is just a construct in that consciousness.

An animal that shows evidence of dreaming indicates memories are being processed in virtual (inside the mind) space-time. This, to me, is conscious awareness evidence. It also indicates a conscious mind and a sub-conscious mind since dreams occur within the subconscious mind. Thus the awareness navigates amongst conscious mind with sub-conscious mind serving as a foundation while awake. Just like humans do.

Dreaming is evidence.

Wih consciousness being at the root of this, it is not easy to prove. It is not possible for you to prove thatt I actually xist. You only have you awareness to rely on here. I and everything that you are aware of may be nothing more han a thought of yours.
You can't prove that I exist outside of your mind . How can you prove that an animal is conscious if you can't even prove that they exist?

This is standard in Buddhism. All sentient beings have "Buddha nature". They are all "aware". They are all at different stages of personal development.

Like others have said, this probably will not have much impact, except perhaps in the vivisection style laboratories of the world, although an acknowledgement of "consciousness" hasn't had much of an impact on how people are treated in the world.

This "scientific development" reminds me of the newsreels of the 1940s, where the authoritative voiceover ends the featurette with a stirring, "Science marches on!"

Wait... So there is a difference in awareness between my dog and a rock?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
Wait... So there is a difference in awareness between my dog and a rock?

One would think so.

How could anyone ever really know?

reply to post by butcherguy

Yes, I eat meat. Ground turkey and chicken burgers is about it. I can't chew on bones, tug at limbs from animal carcasses or eat a steak. When family members suck on rib bones or snap pop chicken limbs it grosses me out. They seem to relish the ritual of thanksgiving... like devouring a living things body.

A piece of red meat settles into the pit of my stomach like a lump and doesn't digest well. I used to consume meat from BBQ with friends while watching the game. I used to catch fish and gut them. I did it mostly because everyone around me seemed to enjoy it and I was trying to belong. It was the thing to do if you wanted to be a part of. All I saw was a bunch of carnivores relishing a piece of dead, burnt flesh.

That was a long time ago. If the SHTF, I am SOL because I hate meat. Maybe I will get hungry enough one day to eye my dog funny, but I doubt it. I've starved too.

And to answer your other question, I am as dysfunctional and sociopathic (with a hint of narcissism thrown in) as they come. I hate that part of me. It was instilled in me by my parents and the American Way. Thing is I know the difference between the two. That makes me not only conscious, but I have a conscience too.

The thread title plays to consciousness but even amoebas are awake. When I was a kid I used to burn ants with a magnifying glass. If you do that near their nest hole they all come running out and attack the light spot on the ground until they wise up and keep their distance. They form a semi circle around the beam on the ground and none dare approach. Until a new soldier comes up from under ground and charges straight into the spot and dies sizzling. All the other ants standing around shudder as though they witnessed something horrible. They act afraid and some break and run away or back down the hole. I know from that horrible cruelty that even ants are consciously aware and feel fear, anger and pain. They think...

They are aware, sentient and they groom themselves. They want to belong, be a part of, measure up... just like us. And they are "just bugs".

reply to post by ImaFungi

Wait... So there is a difference in awareness between my dog and a rock?

From their perspective, or yours? When your dog looks you in the eye, raises its ears and cocks its head, it is asking a question. I know you know that.

This is silly. Of course animals have consciousness. Anyone who had ever owned a pet knows this

The article says,

The group consists of cognitive scientists, neuropharmacologists, neurophysiologists, neuroanatomists, and computational neuroscientists — all of whom were attending the Francis Crick Memorial Conference on Consciousness in Human and Non-Human Animals. The declaration was signed in the presence of Stephen Hawking, and included such signatories as Christof Koch, David Edelman, Edward Boyden, Philip Low, Irene Pepperberg, and many more.

From The Op's Link

About these people: Francis Crick Memorial Conference on Consciousness in Human and Non-Human Animals

The First Annual Francis Crick Memorial Conference, focusing on "Consciousness in Humans and Non-Human Animals", aims to provide a purely data-driven perspective on the neural correlates of consciousness. The most advanced quantitative techniques for measuring and monitoring consciousness will be presented, with the topics of focus ranging from exploring the properties of neurons deep in the brainstem, to assessing global cerebral function in comatose patients. Model organisms investigated will span the species spectrum from flies to rodents, humans to birds, elephants to dolphins, and will be approached from the viewpoint of three branches of biology: anatomy, physiology, and behavior. Until animals have their own storytellers, humans will always have the most glorious part of the story, and with this proverbial concept in mind, the symposium will address the notion that humans do not alone possess the neurological faculties that constitute consciousness as it is presently understood.

fcmconference.org...

I wonder if there is an agenda attached to this. One of the "In The News" links at the bottom of that page has an article that's titled " New Scientist: "Animals are conscious and should be treated as such" " I wonder if some of these people are proposing we do not kill animals for food simply because they are conscious.

Even if they themselves don't, I can see organizations like PETA using this data for their agenda.

reply to post by setibuddies

Butcherguy is 100 percent correct: we can't PROVE that another human being is conscious and self-aware. The upshot of this is how much more impossible is it to either prove or disprove a specific animal is self-aware?

If you have ever seen the eyes of a dead person, you would know the difference.

IMHO, higher order problem solving animals are definitely self-aware.

Okay, a Bumblebee is pretty high order, no?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

I didn't know that Stephen Hawking was there. He sided for consciousness, right?

I wonder if some of these people are proposing we do not kill animals for food simply because they are conscious.

Seems that minority are usually somewhere in the crowd. I revere trees, but I don't go around hugging them either.

I'm wondering when they will finally admit that pre-born have awareness too. Why is it always to support animals but not pre-born humans?

Sounds like agenda 21 thing to me, as Agenda 21 proponents tend to want to stop people eating beef because cows emit co2 and co2 is considered pollution to the environmentalists. So if they just declare cows to be conscious, then they can guilt people into not eating beef. See how that works?
Did I mention Agenda 21 has a huge de-population agenda(depopulating only humans). ?

reply to post by intrptr


So you'll eat dead turkey you just won't eat it not ground up? lol okay, I guess I prefer to eat fish without the heads but I'm still eating dead fish.
Do fish have less awareness than turkeys? I wonder.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

So you'll eat dead turkey you just won't eat it not ground up?

And in a bun with cheese and all the burger fixings. Only way I can get past the "awareness", (lol).

Do fish have less awareness than turkeys? I wonder.

Did you know that all of a fishes nerve bundles end in their mouth? I used to fish till I found that out. No more hook torture.

These "experts" are just a little behind, eh?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I've already pointed out the Agenda 21 point of pushing vegan diets in place of more "affluent" beef.

During the 1992 Earth Summit, which launched the global movement known as UN Agenda 21, Maurice Strong, the Secretary General of the UN, addressed the gathering and said the following: “Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class, involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, home and work air conditioning, and suburban housing are not sustainable.”

Here’s how Big S Sustainability works: If you own livestock and they can drink from a creek, then they want you to permanently fence off your own land to prevent any upset of potential fish habitat. If you want to irrigate your crops and somebody decides it isn't good for a certain insect, then you no longer have irrigation rights.

Vegetarianism is a major tenet of Sustainable Development. Agenda 21 focuses on the goal of eliminating meat consumption and using pastures to grow wheat, corn and soy for human consumption. To get us to comply, we’re told in endless propaganda campaigns that meat is dangerous and the vegan lifestyle is the only healthy alternative.

The end goal of the people-pushing of this agenda is to have vast areas made off limits to human beings and to cluster people into envisioned futuristic “sustainable” hive-like cities inside which every aspect of our lives is to be dictated, and from which travel is to be very highly restricted.

www.westonaprice.org...

Originally posted by purplemer

An international group of prominent scientists has signed The Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness in which they are proclaiming their support for the idea that animals are conscious and aware to the degree that humans are — a list of animals that includes all mammals, birds, and even the octopus.

Why is anyone surprised by this? Anyone who's ever had a pet knows this. Animals respond to emotion and can be protective of those they care about.

It's not going to stop me from eating a hamburger.

Originally posted by butcherguy

How could anyone ever really know?

Ok so either a dog is aware or it is not. If it is not aware, what are you proposing causes a dog to exist and react in a manner that is definable as awareness?

Your uber skepticality is not impressive, I believe you posted a reply earlier a long the lines of "how do I even know anyone exists except me...". I hope you dont consider that as a possible scenario. If you do please do not respond to this post.

Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by butcherguy
Difficult to prove.
Impossible actually.
It is entirely possible that I am the only conscious being in existence and that everything else is just a construct in that consciousness.

An animal that shows evidence of dreaming indicates memories are being processed in virtual (inside the mind) space-time. This, to me, is conscious awareness evidence. It also indicates a conscious mind and a sub-conscious mind since dreams occur within the subconscious mind. Thus the awareness navigates amongst conscious mind with sub-conscious mind serving as a foundation while awake. Just like humans do.

Dreaming is evidence.

Yep, my dog dreams.. You can see him moving his legs like he's running and he even barks. Not a full out loud bark but more under his breath. He's definitely dreaming of the mailman.

Animals; actually ALL living things, are conscious. We all tap into the consciousness field.

reply to post by purplemer


Interesting. S&F

Just wish to clarify one of your statements.

Recently India passed a law declaring dolphins not human persons.

The word 'not' changed the context of this sentence. India has declared dolphins as real persons of the NON-human type. Still a great thread though.

So it seems Human have finally risen to a level of Consciousness.
so that they can SEE Other animals have Consciousness too!

I still believe their is no hope for the humans.

but aren't we meant to assume that animals were put here for us to use and abuse?

We can start growing meat these days, that should be the way forward.

Perhaps we are the food supply of a superior species, and we have no right to complain given how we have treated animals