A Sign Of Things To Come?.....

i say BRING EM DOWN. man i gotta put everything i want to say into 1 post instead of 3

Whats wrong with N.Korea and Iran having nuclear capabilities??? Who are any of us to dictate the evolutionary growth of a civilization? Why does the USA get to choose who can be a player in the new world???

I'll tell you why.........
If we let N.Korea and Iran have nuclear weapons we would find it hard to swagger around the world with our, "my way or the highway" approach to foreign policy. The USA mightbe forced to actually listen to another culture's view on life.
WOW.
*You mean we might not have all the answers daddy??*
Yes Johnny, thats right...and our worst fear is that we might have to answer someday for all the horrible atrocites we let happen and profited from. As it stands right now, we're the big bully on the block Johnny and whatever we say is right. We're the moral ones, we're the righteous ones, we're the good ones. Heck the bible even says so... GOD BLESS AMERICA Johnny. And if we were forced to actually have to come to the table and admit that we have supported and armed horrible dictators and regimes for profit, well, some people might be looking for an apology.
AND AMERICA DOES NOT APOLOGIZE...EVER!
Not to the Native Americans, not to the African slaves, not to the third world countries and not to the Vietnamese. Heck Johnny, we even had a president that was caught lying, stealing, and blackmailing hundreds of people in this country and all he ever had to do was resign...Later they even did a movie for him and he NEVER DID APOLOGIZE.
Once Johnny, we had agroup of people high up in the white house who created a large network of money laundering and drug smuggling to pay for an illegal war and terrorist uprisings in IRAN and Nicaragua. And were those bad boys punished Johnny, heck no,,,not in AMerica the LAND OF THE BRAVE. One of them went on to become president and so did his son in one ofthe most scandalously rigged election in all of modern times. Another guy claimed to have found jesus (I never realized he was missing) and now he gets a fat salary as a "talking head" on the FOX (unbiased) news network. One particular higher up simply said, "I don't recall" and it was OK because he was a famous movies star and AMERICANS sure do like rich and famous people. Oh and one president lied under oath about f*ckin an intern. (I didn't want anybody thinking I was a democrat)
The point Johnny, is that the USA can't take the chance that somebody might tell us to stop doing something or make us do it differently, like the KYoto TReaty, or enviromental protection, or labor laws in third world countries, or pharmacutical ethics or oil prices or corporate monopolies. Too many people have paid to much money for that to happen. WE have the american dream shoved so far up our ass that we have come to believe it in our hearts and if somebody was to tell us NO nd mean it, it might expose us for the nation we truly are.........heartless.
Give everybody the same weapons and money to level the god damn playing field. Then will find out which side god is on...if there is one. Anything less is cowardice.

[There is no enemy anywhere]

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
Whats wrong with N.Korea and Iran having nuclear capabilities??? Who are any of us to dictate the evolutionary growth of a civilization? Why does the USA get to choose who can be a player in the new world???
I'll tell you why.........
If we let N.Korea and Iran have nuclear weapons we would find it hard to swagger around the world with our, "my way or the highway" approach to foreign policy. The USA mightbe forced to actually listen to another culture's view on life.
WOW.

(cut rest of good post)

you're so sane it's scary.

I just saw a documentry on the Korean War 1950. It was very embaressing for both sides. After huge losses neither side made any significant gains. Politically or Geographically.
It turned out that the war was The U.S. vs China! Not North vs South. If there is another war will this happen again?
The U.S. didn't use Nuclear Weapons then, even though they contemplated it. Will they use them now?

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
Whats wrong with N.Korea and Iran having nuclear capabilities??? Who are any of us to dictate the evolutionary growth of a civilization? Why does the USA get to choose who can be a player in the new world???

were you thrwon down the stairs as a child? or are you naturally a MORON! whats wrong with iran and n. korea having mukes? ill tell you. Iran and North Korea would probally give them to terrorist. more likely Iran would do that. How would you handle seeing a mushroom cloud over NYC, or Denver. the US is not dictating who's a player in the World. its for the protection of the US and her allies. Im worried about the responce to a nucler terrorist attack. Bush has said that he would condier using our nuclear weapons as a responce to WMD's being detonated on our soil. for that i give him a big thumbs up. i find it good to know that a terrorist will have to think about his coutry of origin before he uses a nuke. by the time he gets back to his country it might not exist. im glad we have a president that is willing to fight fire with fire. North Korea would use them to black mail the south, China, Japan, Russia, and the United States. Either that or launch a nuclear backed blitzkrieg across the DMZ. Nuclear Weapons are a cancer on the face of the earth. if we had destroyed the plans after WWII ended and caugut the rosenburg's before they gave the bomb plans to the reds we would have nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
Whats wrong with N.Korea and Iran having nuclear capabilities??? Why does the USA get to choose who can be a player in the new world???

You don't have children I would guess.
Believe me. If one gets something shiny they ALL want something shiny.

Countries are like children.

Nuclear power is dangerous in man's hands. In the West we are actively searching for other ways to run our world.
Nuclear technology is safer if it's not spread around the world while we learn from it.

We've seen the damage that it can cause.

But the fact is, nuclear weapons are here. The US won't be destroying theirs anytime soon. So other nations are not allowed to protect themselves/arm themselves with weapons we won't get rid of? Explain the logic please.
"I don't like the governments in that country" is not a valid answer.
As long as the US hypocritically insists on stockpiling, every nation will continue to develop nukes. As well they should, for any attempt by America to stop it is nothing more than a bullying, "I have the power and you can't have any" attitude.
American (& some other nations, too) fear at disarming will soon result in Worldwide M.A.D.
or a worldwide war trying to prevent it.
hold on to your hats boys and girls.



[Edited on 25-6-2003 by quango]

Whats wrong with N.Korea and Iran having nuclear capabilities???

Are you familiar with the leaders of these countries??? If you were, you wouldn't need to ask this question... They make Charles Manson look almost sane....

Originally posted by quango
But the fact is, nuclear weapons are here. The US won't be destroying theirs anytime soon. So other nations are not allowed to protect themselves/arm themselves with weapons we won't get rid of? Explain the logic please.

The logic is that we will never use them. We shouldn't be able to get to the situation where we need to.
We have created a situation in the West where a pre-emptive nuclear strike against any nation would have after effects that would socially-economically destroy ourselves. There would also be other physical side effects that would knock us out. We would be committing suicide. If we are ever at the stage where we need to use them, we are already dead.



If everyone else has nuclear weapons we are going to have to unveil something better. A new Arms Race will begin.
Then neighbour will be looking at neighbour. That's how trouble starts.
Add accidents to the equation and you are heading for disaster.

There is even the possibility that the US has already invented a weapon that is so advanced that a first strike option will be seen as the only way by those countries who oppose the West.
Nuclear weapons are now obsolete.
I believe that better weapons are now available to the West.


We developed the technology. We understand it's psychological and physical uses better than anyone.
There are almost certainly other secrets of that technology that have not been publicised.



There are countries out there who don't understand the implications of that technology. If they develop it, who knows what will happen?
I wouldn't like to be here to find out.

Originally posted by Leveller
The logic is that we will never use them. We shouldn't be able to get to the situation where we need to.
We have created a situation in the West where a pre-emptive nuclear strike against any nation would have after effects that would socially-economically destroy ourselves. There would also be other physical side effects that would knock us out. We would be committing suicide. If we are ever at the stage where we need to use them, we are already dead.

I agree with everything you say, but we need to set the standard. We need to openly destroy our nukes and tell the world it is not ok to have or develop them. To do anything less is to appear hypocritical.

Furthermore, if we have already advanced our weaponry beyond nukes then how are we not to blame for this 'new' arms race and other countries seeking nukes (to protect themselves from a perceived threat, or just to feel as powerful)?

If you and I were trying to coexist, and I had a wooden club and you had nothing, and i said you couldn't have a club and threatened to hit you with my club everytime you tried to get one, wouldn't you get annoyed? Would you not continue to try to get a wooden club for yourself? Now, on the other hand, if I threw my club away and said, alright, lets try to coexist in peace wouldn't most people accept that and try (for awhile, atleast) to live in peace?

Also, given enough time and the current state of politics and lack of interest of the people and the blind following attitude, it's only a matter of time before the US has a president who "isn't all there" and will start throwing around nukes. With the state of the people right now and the media and everything, any president could justify anything to the people.

You may have to disarm everyone else before you can even think about disarming yourself.

Nuclear proliferation would lead at best to a more unstable world. At worse to the total annihalation of our planet.


Nuclear weapons are a curse if they fall into the wrong hands. They are fearful enough weapons when Western societies aim them at each other.

I don't believe that the West wants them for themselves or wishes their evil on others.


If we are trying to disarm North Korea, we need our nuclear weapons to bargain with. We can't disarm ourselves until later.

They are a bargaining chip. Nothing more. If North Korea starts anything before we disarm them, we will probably blast their asses with something far more devastating.

does the word DETERRANT mean anything to you people? we have to make rogue nations and the russians think twice about using nuclear weapons. not to mention its the russians we should worry about. they have 20,000 to 40,000 tactical nukes and they probally dont know where half of em are. i say letting any middle eastern country or north korea have nuclear weapons is a REALLY BAD IDEA. its bad enough that im gonna have to explain 9/11 someday to my children. i dont want to have to explain why Denver, Bellevue Neb. (home of SAC) or NYC dont exist anymore. would you people be able to do that? Not to mention that i LIVE 5 MILES From Offutt AFB in Nebraska, and i dont want to die in a nuclear fireball. in my sleep sure but in a nuclear fireball no way. anyways im glad that the US and her allies are policeing the Nuclear situation around the world. i feel a little safer now.

My worry is that China is behind all of this. Or at least will actively try to block disarmament.

There is the possibility that they are trying to see our hand now so that they can build their own.

I don't see total peace with China until they understand that we aren't a threat to her people's future.

Maybe the Chinese are sizing the West up? If we are forced to unveil new technology against North Korea it will be in China's interests.

For the World's sake - I hope we have that technology.

All your fears of this world and the problems you think it produces are because you are afraid of death. All your other problems stem from that. You needn't be afraid. You are loved so much...
loved by whatever you need.

Am I still sane Quango?

i dont fear death. i would ask god to strike me down if i could get back together with my ex. thats beside the point. i dont want to see a mushroom cloud over a major american city!