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Edward Snowden Could Fly to Iceland Tomorrow

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posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:11 AM
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A jet owned by a Chinese company was rented by individuals related to Wikileaks to fly the informant Edward Snowden to Iceland. This was reported in Iceland earlier today by the local media. The group is waiting for reactions from the minister of the interior in Iceland to see if the Snowden will get a political asylum in Iceland.

News of Iceland

Wikileaks have been brokering this on Snowden's behalf. I hope it happens smoothly. Maybe they'll drop by the Ecuadorian Embassy in London and pick up Julian Assange on the way.

ETA: Check out ProjectPM. An investigation by journalists and interested others trying to map out a web of corruption and conspiracy between private security/intelligence orgs and governments based on a massive number of files stolen from Strator by Anonymous and given to the now remanded journalist Barrett Brown. Glenn Greenwald works/worked on this project and Michael Hastings very likely also did. They are always looking for more help so if you see something, say something.

edit on 21-6-2013 by Archie because: .




posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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Its pretty sad you have to resort acting like am internationally war criminal to travel where you want to go for airing out the US Government's dirty secrets.

The real question nobody in the media is asking is how far these programs would have gone had it not been for Snowden's leaking of the information.

Traitor or hero. He did what he felt was right. Apparently having a conscience is damn near illegal these days.

What times we live in.

Hope he gets there without any problems.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:53 AM
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I sure hope he isn't making the biggest mistake of his life if he takes that offer. NO offense to Iceland at all. I'm sure they are 100% sincere and mean very well. I don't think they have the slightest CLUE how far the U.S. Government is willing to go to get this guy though. China controls Hong Kong. Trying to render him from there could lead to very very bad places and get some of our top people killed, if not in a small war by the end of it. Beijing just wouldn't see any of it the least bit funny.

Iceland is a NATO member though and has no military. If the US respects the sovereignty to not render him, it will be purely by respect for Iceland and by personal restraint and choice of our leaders. No stick to deter them to match the carrot of 'good relations'. I fear without that stick like the People's Liberation Army? They'll just take him....stomp anything that gets in their way and figure they'll deal with the fall out later.

He's not public enemy #1. Heck... that's a low annoyance compared to this. He's someone they may very well choose to deal with an international incident to get, Whatever it takes. That wouldn't be the nation I'd go to if I were him....and I hope Iceland isn't hurt in the process of what my Government may VERY likely do to recover their "problem", as they view him.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I don't think they have the slightest CLUE how far the U.S. Government is willing to go to get this guy though


They were brave enough to create a haven for Wikileaks during and after the cable release when the US were going after them. Julian Assange lived there for quite some time so I imagine they have a pretty good idea of what the US are able to do and are brave enough to stand their ground (they also jailed their bankers for their part in the GFC). Luckily they have Parliamentarians who back the rights of free citizens 100%.


Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
China controls Hong Kong. Trying to render him from there could lead to very very bad places and get some of our top people killed, if not in a small war by the end of it. Beijing just wouldn't see any of it


I'm not sure what you are driving at here. Are you talking about a skirmish between US ops and Chinese ops? If that happened, I'm not sure we'd ever hear about it. I can't imagine China would be bothered going to that extreme unless it was promised something by Snowden with 'payment' promised when he was safely out of the country.
edit on 21-6-2013 by Archie because: .



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by Archie
 


The fact Julian Assange is currently the perm. resident in hiding at the Ecuadorian embassy and not in a comfy house in Iceland speaks volumes to his view of it. Again, this isn't about Iceland. Just how little actual barrier Iceland could pose in a purely physical way ...when the U.S. Government is probably burning to get Snowden SO badly, that is all that will even slow them down.

As for China? If a rendition team were caught inside Hong Kong and especially caught WITH Snowden outside of something covered by the Vienna Conventions? I think they'd all die old men in a Chinese Labor camp after a life time to think over how bad an idea it was to operate inside the PRC against someone China obviously is indifferent to at worst and semi-protective of at this point.

Really, I respect the heck of out Iceland for the sheer moxy they've shown so far. However, most here will agree with the fact the World Powers do whatever they feel like doing or feel they need to do unless that brings them in direct conflict with each other. Look how former FSB Agent Litvinenko was assassinated in London? They even used a radioactive isotope with a VERY limited source and a short life for using it that way. I.E.....Moscow signed his death warrant in neon colors and just one hair's width into deniable......right in the middle of London, England.

BTW... S/F for the thinking and spirit behind it. I'm among those who thinks Snowden did the right thing and in the right way ...unless something huge changes about what he releases. It seems he's encouraged others as well. Few things can be greater to give than what he has. Courage to others.
edit on 21-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Archie

A jet owned by a Chinese company was rented by individuals related to Wikileaks to fly the informant Edward Snowden to Iceland.


This could also be a false trail to distract from Snowdens real plans!



Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I sure hope he isn't making the biggest mistake of his life if he takes that offer. NO offense to Iceland at all.


If something happens to Snowden in Hong Kong or China the majority of the local population will shrug it off. If Snowden disappears or develops 'Hastings syndrome" in Iceland the whole population will be in an uproar and keep Snowdens fate in the media far longer. Iceland could make a lot of sense for him - getting there is the dangerous part!



Originally posted by Wrabbit2000 The fact Julian Assange is currently the perm. resident in hiding at the Ecuadorian embassy and not in a comfy house in Iceland speaks volumes to his view of it.


Also for Assange the main problem may be reaching Iceland in the first place.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I would imagine the PLA. knows a lot more than Snowden knows. The Intel. agencies of the worlds main players, would be up with most of the play. It would seem the muzzling of the leaking fawcets, are mainly to keep the civilian population in a state of bovine munching. I'd assume the CIA. knows what he's got and what he might leak. If they don't then they are compromised, and might need to do some soul searching. Loyal people don't go opening the gov. books to all and sundry, without good moral reasons.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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I'm confused by the replies and seeming sense of certainty that simply because Iceland has lawmakers and members of the public who care, this would keep Snowden or Assange in any way safe?

On one hand, the whole reason we're pissed off is that these agencies follow no law but their own ...and believe me, the worst hasn't even been speculated on in the media yet. Not even close to it. So, we all acknowledge they're out of control and they kill people for a living. They perform renditions right off the streets of allied nations and not as a rare thing by any means. Under-reported to an extreme, but not rare. A Bin Laden relation showed up in New York not that long ago ...as if by magic...in U.S. Custody. As I recall the story, his last memory was being in a European city when his lights just "went out" and next he knew? Welcome to America. So this still goes on. That, and much more. It's what put Snowden on the path he's on.

Then on the other hand, people expect these same agencies to follow the niceties of law and order just because they were kindly asked to and...might upset some people in Iceland if they don't. Well... They've pissed off MILLIONS in America who are calling for their figurative heads. Has it phased them? Not really.... They figure we'll get over it. Why would the whole population of Iceland matter that much to them if millions here and leaders around the world raging at them, don't?

Snowden is clever and so far, wise. He picked Hong Kong because it's China.....but it's not China. It's protected by the PLA, but then, not. A 'Special Status' that he can use to his advantage as he best knows, as a former insider, is his last best shot to survive this thing.

Keep in mind... This isn't a movie and it's not a game. Obama personally wants this boy dead. Dead or captured and the Americans Obama executed in Yemen weren't personal. He still did it without so much as a pause in his step. Snowden *IS* personal for our President and some of the most dangerous people in the world. Very personal. He's blown a good deal of what they've personally been working on and for, trying to achieve. A one man wrecking crew to policy as envisioned by folks who don't solve problems, they kill them .....and if some innocent Icelanders happen to be in the way and get killed too? Well.. oooooops.... 'Sorry about that'.. will likely be about the only thing publicly said, if that much.

I'm glad Snowden himself isn't as naive as some appear to be about the deadly seriousness of all this and just HOW vicious and utterly ruthless U.S. Intelligence can be when it feels it has a mission for entirely personal revenge on top of legal justification to hunt anywhere on Earth to get someone.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm confused by the replies and seeming sense of certainty that simply because Iceland has lawmakers and members of the public who care, this would keep Snowden or Assange in any way safe?


Well I think both our theories have merit to a certain degree. Let me clarify my points however:

1. For both Assange and Snowden the main problem would be to get there in the first place. Especially for Assange simply trying to leave the Ecuadorian embassy in London might prove disastrous/fatal. For both of them boarding a vessel to get there would be a major risk as would be the actual transit/travel.

2. Snowden is certainly not keen on sacrificing himself but from what I understand willing to do so if it furthers his cause. Iceland may not offer protection in firepower but it does offer some protection in terms of public outcry (read backlash for those who would harm him) and that kind of public outcry has the power to spread far beyond borders. Try thinking of it as the Gandhi approach.

Maybe I come across as naive or maybe you did not take the time to contemplate my point of view as thoroughly as I think it deserves. Let me counter this with a question regarding China and the PLA however: Is it not naive to assume they have an interest in signalling to their own population that whistleblowing in matters of 'national security' is being tolerated or even encouraged?

In conclusion I do not think there is THE solution to Snowdens and Assanges situation. Both are currently between a rock and a hard place. But can we agree that they need to be in the center of public awareness both for their own protection and their cause?



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex
 


You do make some solid points. Yes, we can 100% agree that the public light is about all that keeps them safe. Assange has far more security than Snowden (that we know of..since Snowden seems MIA for actual location now) as even the U.S. won't just kick the door down on a foreign Embassy to get someone. Anyone. If we did that, our own Embassies would be targeted all over the world where local Governments barely tolerate us. It's not respect for the law as much as enlightened self interest.

I don't think China is sheltering Snowden because it truly cares about him. Not a bit. Sheltering is what I'd call it by now though, as I'm sure they've gotten the required official request for arrest and ignored it. However, I think China's interests are served by watching the U.S. twist in the wind right now and squirm under the spotlight. I think they're having a great time of that aspect ....and for Snowden, it's keeping him safe for the time being. That's enough, right?


I was thinking about this last night while doing other things and came up with a good comparison for why Hong Kong is a unique place of safety where virtually nowhere but perhaps Russia would serve the same (and Russia is hard anti-America within the SVR/FSB in ways China has never been...they'd kidnap him themselves to torture out everything he knows, IMO.)

Imagine this... What if China had a blockbuster Whistle Blower for their Ministry of State Security. Lets say he blew the doors off what China had been up to for hacking the US and other nations around the world (which they have been). This Chinese national's revelations just make Chinese leaders want to dig a hole and pull the dirt in after them for the pure humiliation on the world stage (which it would be). Now...Imagine this Chinese National appeared in Guam or Puerto Rico. Much the same is/isn't status for U.S. Soil as Hong Kong is to China.

What would we do if we caught a Chinese military or intelligence team inside Guam or inside Puerto Rico, intent to kidnap this man our nation had already made clear wasn't to be taken by force. Not officially protecting....but absolutely not allowing to be taken either? How would the US see it for a "How DARE they"? That's what keeps him safe in Hong Kong, IMO.

Iceland also has one other little problem... Well, actually there is nothing little about it. In the case of China, we can make all the threats we want about sanctions (public or not) or embargoes (public or not) and China is going to tell us where to stick our silly little threats.....when they stop laughing. Why? China can turn 100% and totally self sufficient and make it that way, if push came to shove.

Iceland? Well..... How much of what Icelanders need to survive can be produced 100% within their own nation? Oil? Jet Fuel? Finished industrial goods? How much would Iceland's central Govermment be willing to lose before one man wouldn't be worth it to them anymore and the pain became too much? That's what I mean about the U.S. honoring almost NO sense of limit or decency for how far they'll go to get Snowden. Assange is an annoyance. A "journalist" who went too far. Snowden is an Honest to God traitor ....to those in U.S. leadership, anyway.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Just tried to send an answer to your u2u and got this: 'You may not send private messages to anyone
but ATS Staff.'

I'm guessing it has to do with not yet having reached 20 posts (?)


Just wanted to let you know both the U2U and your answer here were greatly appreciated!



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