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Libertarians-how to spread libertarianism. (was : Libertarians - why so few?)

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posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:04 PM
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I have been wondering for a long time why there are so few libertarians? It's a great compromise between the republicans and the democrats! The two main parties are so intolerant of other people, for example, liberals can't stand it when someone decides to work hard and earn a lot of money or own guns, and republicans can't stand it when someone wants to do drugs or be gay! These are basic human rights, to not have someone telling you what your personal choices are to be. When did such a system happen? It seems as though it used to be less choice in life vs more choice, whereas now, it is "what part of your life would you like to make your own decisions in? Remember, only a part, not hte whole thing." I just don't see how this could happen.

[edit on 7-11-2004 by DanD9]




posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:17 PM
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i think that it is ..first and foremost) because the current political system will not let a 3rd party let its position be known to the masses..
and 2) libertarian sounds to much like libral....and there are too many conotations to that word.

i think if more people knew the positions of the libertarian party, the rep and dem would be worried....hmmmmmm ANOTHER conspiracy.......



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:19 PM
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I think you are right about it being a compromise.
I also think that the parts that are NOT a compromise, are the parts that
keep people emotionally bound to the big TWO.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:22 PM
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so the republicans and democrats want us to be essentially unknown? that would make sense, less parties to go against, and besides the democrats control most of the media, republicans the other bit. that makes sense. this stinks.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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DanD9,

What is the Libertarian stance on immigration?
That is one thing that bothers me.
I could be wrong, but It seems that there is an extreme open border policy.

Is this correct? If not, educate me!



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by spacedoubt
DanD9,

What is the Libertarian stance on immigration?
That is one thing that bothers me.
I could be wrong, but It seems that there is an extreme open border policy.

Is this correct? If not, educate me!


I think it's pretty open, but I'm no expert.

I would say that the problem with Libertarians is that they aren't a compromise of moderation, they're a compromise of extremes. They have views that are really to the extreme right or left, and stick them together. This really throws people off, because all they see is a party that is all over the place.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 06:59 PM
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yes esoterica, I agree with that. it is sorta extreme.

The LP's view on immigration is extreme open borders, but mine is less extreme.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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Yes, there is an open immigration policy, but it is combined with an actual securing of our borders. (And don't forget that America was built on immigration).

Part of the idea is, if you open up immigration, there is less reason for people to "sneak" across the border. Therefore, any people caught doing so probably have bad things in mind.

And don't mistake open immigration with no security. We're still checking out who these people are - it just becomes less of a hassle for them. And they feel more welcomed.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by quango
Yes, there is an open immigration policy, but it is combined with an actual securing of our borders. (And don't forget that America was built on immigration).


I don't think that libertarians are much on social programs/big government, so maybe not so many would be sneaking in for the goodies.

IMHO



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 09:15 PM
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I would have to say that any form for pure libertarian implementation within a form of capitalistic system is doomed to collapse in upon itself once businesses gain an overabundance of power and the people go against them. Libertarianism offers no restrictions making it so that businesses can form parasitic control over all aspects of government and people. This has been demonstrated (to an extent) well enough once before...not to say that a few libertarian principles could be applied to our current gov't to loosen up the bloated monstrosity that it is.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 09:58 PM
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Actually, as a Serious Libertarian I can say that the ideas are not that out of the ordinary.

I have noticed great numbers of people supporting the platform, but being unwilling to "risk" voting for them outside of small time elections (if that).

But we are out there, not to push the Libertarian platform (which it's important to get people who have never heard it to hear it), but to change the way people think about voting, and the system.

THAT is just as important. I think now is the perfect time to pick up all the people who voted against Bush.

I think it's also time to trim the fat off the Republican party in a big way. The Rep. party has negotiated it's platform to the point that they almost no longer follow it, in lieu of it's agenda.

It has new friends, and they aren't always the people of America.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by socrepLT
I would have to say that any form for pure libertarian implementation within a form of capitalistic system is doomed to collapse in upon itself once businesses gain an overabundance of power and the people go against them. Libertarianism offers no restrictions making it so that businesses can form parasitic control over all aspects of government and people.


So according to this particular (and often mentioned) theory, corporations and businessman have a clear advantage in a libertarian society. I guess that's why corporations and businessmen are flocking to and donating money to the Libertarian Party. Obviously not. No, the current system of government in which Republicans and Democrats allow corporations to operate in a less than free market that favors them is what they want......and what they get.

I started a thread quite similar to this that has my ideas of what happened and what to do: Badnarik's showing and the future.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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hmmm....I don't want to get beaten for saying this but the only way Libertarians are going to get any true say in America is for them to get a spokesman like Hitler, THey need a Hitler simple as that.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by THX 1138
hmmm....I don't want to get beaten for saying this but the only way Libertarians are going to get any true say in America is for them to get a spokesman like Hitler, THey need a Hitler simple as that.


So what you mean is what the Libertarian Party needs is a charismatic speaker and uniter. The Democrats need this too. I can think of several people that can do this that you could have used that don't have the negative connotation that Hitler holds.

[edit on (11/7/0404 by PistolPete]



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 10:53 PM
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You are wrong about Libertarians giving big business to much power.

We do not believe in corporate welfare and protecvtion from law suits like the Republicans do.

I have been a Libertarian almost from the start of the party and I think part of the problem is people today are scared of freedom. They want someone telling them how to think and what to do. I think the LP is the last chance we have to remain not just a free country but a country of free men.

The two arent always the same thing



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by PistolPete
So according to this particular (and often mentioned) theory, corporations and businessman have a clear advantage in a libertarian society.

Some would some wouldn't, it would all be a roll of the die. Those who succeed in conquering the market would benefit to a ridiculous extent. But at the same time those who try and form businesses and such forth would be crushed at every attempt they make to try and enter an already controlled market.


Originally posted by PistolPete
I guess that's why corporations and businessmen are flocking to and donating money to the Libertarian Party. Obviously not.

No, because many would stand to lose greatly seeing as to how their business is supported by the govt or directly intertwined with it (ex. defense contractors, oil production, etc.). Many large industries wound experience a complete downfall if gov't restriction was completely lifted. As well as reasons stated above.


Originally posted by PistolPete
No, the current system of government in which Republicans and Democrats allow corporations to operate in a less than free market that favors them is what they want......and what they get.

I agree, and that is why they support the current system. I am simply saying that if all market restrictions and such were lifted businesses would have a vicious power struggle to stay alive and the winners would come out with an unspeakably large amount of influence over the gov't and citizens. And since companies always work towards their own interests....


Originally posted by Amuk
You are wrong about Libertarians giving big business to much power.

I didn't say that libertarians would give them power but due to market competition and forces a select few businesses would come out with an, although inadvertent, overabundance of power and control.


Originally posted by Amuk
We do not believe in corporate welfare and protecvtion from law suits like the Republicans do.

Corporate welfare becomes completely unnecessary once a company is wealthy and powerful enough and lawsuits would become irrelevant for the same reasons.


Originally posted by Amuk
I have been a Libertarian almost from the start of the party and I think part of the problem is people today are scared of freedom.
They want someone telling them how to think and what to do. I think the LP is the last chance we have to remain not just a free country but a country of free men.

The two arent always the same thing

I agree completely, but Libertarianism would simply lead to a separate form of oppression, which could actually turn out to be even more repressive to workers than the one we currently have.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:41 AM
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So,

Open up a secure more avenue to sort through potential immigrants.
Cut back on Social programs, that would normally be abused by illegal immigrants. Eliminate the "carrot" so to speak..

There would have to be some method of determining who gets in, and who does not. I know that other countries do this. Like a point system. How would it work here, in the US?



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 02:45 AM
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Who can supply the name of one existing Libertarian country?




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 03:02 AM
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There is a war on Liberalism, the neo-conservatives in power today deem that liberalism plants the seeds of decay in society because of its laxed morals, they claim that liberalism has failed.

The man who originaly came up with these ideologies was Leo Strauss in the 1940's and was the first neo-conservative. Paul Wolfowitz and Cheney are staunch Straussians in the whitehouse today.

Strauss's ideologies closly resemble Marixm, throughout the cold war Straussians challanged the CIA in releasing misleading information on the soviet threat, it was their goal to clearly define "good and evil" (USA being the "good"). Example; the CIA would come out with a report claiming that no new submarine sonic radar system exists in the Soviet empire....The Straussians would come out on TV and at press meetings and claim that the Soviet had developed new submarine sonic radar technology that could not be detected because it was so sophisticated ect ect.

Its still happening today, neo-conservitives follow an agenda to kill off liberalism, Strauss originaly thought people needed to believe in lies and make believe threats in order to do it. This is the reason why lots of people really hate and fear liberals today.

Guys, the neo-conservatives are your enemy, they believe that Liberalism is immoral, breeds decay and makes people so weak that the country can no longer defend itself.

In order to spread Liberalism you have to know what you are up against at this day in age. (this post is not a taunt at the neo-conservatives, Strauss clearly outlined these things during his time, and was clearly not ashamed to teach them to his students)


[edit on 8-11-2004 by electric squid carpet]



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by electric squid carpet
There is a war on Liberalism, the neo-conservatives in power today deem that liberalism plants the seeds of decay in society because of its laxed morals, they claim that liberalism has failed.



I was thinking the same thing this morning when I was watching cspan. They had a man on there talking about the democratic ideology, he said the point is to help American's reach their fullest potential, and that the republican party is doing a bad job of that.

The way he was speaking gave me a picture of spoon being shoved into somebody's mouth and whatever is on the spoon helps people grow taller and more successful... But of course people can't do that without government help.

Since all these programs started and fannie may, people have become unstable and more irresponsible, if people get help from other people, they adapt and just start expecting that spoon so to speak.

I don't understand how people don't see that...

As far as I understand people were alot better off 100 yrs ago, before the irs became part of our lives, before social programs, before fannie may...

I am such a strong supporter of the libertarian ideology because of this..
Because it gets back to this 100 yrs ago where people were successful, red tape wasn't such a big thing, everything was cheaper because of less government regulation, (which btw, gov't regulation affects insurance companies and services which is why everything is so damn expensive these days) self reponsibility was common and not a skill to be worked on...




The man who originaly came up with these ideologies was Leo Strauss in the 1940's and was the first neo-conservative. Paul Wolfowitz and Cheney are staunch Straussians in the whitehouse today.

Strauss's ideologies closly resemble Marixm, throughout the cold war Straussians challanged the CIA in releasing misleading information on the soviet threat, it was their goal to clearly define "good and evil" (USA being the "good").


I'd like more information on how you make this connection marxism and the neo conservative movement. Isn't neo conservatism a strong religious movement within the party that is strict in their morality ideas.. Kind of like the puritan's... If you could provide more information on the Strassian ideology that would be much appreciated...



Its still happening today, neo-conservitives follow an agenda to kill off liberalism, Strauss originaly thought people needed to believe in lies and make believe threats in order to do it. This is the reason why lots of people really hate and fear liberals today.



I can see this... I find it quite hypocritical of the right wing to condemn the left wing of being nutty and insulting towards the right, but the right are far more worse then the left... At least they've gotten really bad the past few years since i've been paying more attention... I see much hatred towards the left these days and people have it in their head that their communists who want to take over america and make it a nanny state...

I truly believe people do not understand because they lack self education, spoonfeeding information is never a good thing to be a part of.



Guys, the neo-conservatives are your enemy, they believe that Liberalism is immoral, breeds decay and makes people so weak that the country can no longer defend itself.


I don't believe this current administration is "republican" or adhering to the gop platform. When Hillary Clinton comes out and starts presenting herself as a hardcore socialist, people get scared. When she said "what we're going to do is take your money and redisperse it" that scares people...
What she's talking about it is not what America was founded on.
It was founded on hard working men making their living for themselves, like merchants and shoe makers, ect.. Tradesmen.



In order to spread Liberalism you have to know what you are up against at this day in age. (this post is not a taunt at the neo-conservatives, Strauss clearly outlined these things during his time, and was clearly not ashamed to teach them to his students)


what are some teachings you can outline?
thanks.



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