Can we trust our Govt. again? Or too much damage done...

My question I pose to all on here is, how does the Govt. win our trust back? Can you ever trust them again? Will you ever trust them again? Has too much damage been done already?

I just can't picture a scenario where I trust them again... I feel that politicians come in good people who want to make a difference, but they're all corrupted eventually, and they know if they want to have a career as a US politician they need to PLAY THE GAME or they will be a one term rep...

We've had some many recent WTF moments and I just can't stand the state of politics we have in our country... I can only go off what text books have taught us, but I don't remember reading about our founding father's acting this way. So what changed? Why are we at this state now?

I want to trust my Govt., I want to believe in them that they are here to do public service for the good of the country. I want to believe that they have our best interest at heart. But I feel that they don't and I feel like it will never be "by the people, for the people" ever again... I love this country, but I hate the state we are in. It's like a messed up relationship with a Wife/GF who constantly cheats, lies and steals and asks you to believe them when you know they are just going behind your back...

It bothers me greatly that we have a man in Edward Snowden who is attempting to protect our freedoms and the representatives, mainly King from New York, want to lock this guy up and throw away the key... What's wrong with a man trying to protect our rights? Is taking away our rights a part of national security?

Has too much damage been done? Is trust lost? Will we ever find it again?

Thank you ATS!

You must be young. I haven't trusted the government since 1963 and the decision was reiterated in no uncertain terms in 1968.

You can do a lot worse than to just figure, whatever they tell you, the truth is the exact opposite.

Local government often isn't that bad, if only because those involved in it know that everyone else knows where they live, etc. They don't have 'protection' against backlash, in other words.

Maybe we made a huge mistake when we made a federal government with an unlimited budget and power. It long ago got too huge to keep track of. Notice that the apparently well-run countries where people say they are pretty happy overall are small ones; Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland. The US is far too big geographically and in other ways.

reply to post by signalfire


Not sure if 28 is considered young anymore...

So its safe to say that trust is gone and gone for good, correct?

You would have to be insane to trust this government. They view you and I as enemies and people of interest because we are not amongst the corporate financial elite

Originally posted by supremecommander
You would have to be insane to trust this government. They view you and I as enemies and people of interest because we are not amongst the corporate financial elite

I agree, trust is definitely gone... We have a messed up relationship with our Govt. They enter office saying one thing and end up doing the complete opposite...

Do you see a scenario to where you trust them again?

reply to post by jhn7537

Well I think it has always been this way. People have (generally) never trusted their government. And that's not a bad thing. You don't trust the government, instead you hold them accountable. If we can't or don't hold our government accountable for its choices, we're partly responsible for its actions. It's a government of the people and everyone has to participate somewhat.

But it's not simple. Some things are instinct. And things can get out of control.

Look at this:
www.psychologicalscience.o rg - Why Do People Defend Unjust, Inept, and Corrupt Systems?...

We (tend to) protect a system (like government) when:
1) It's threatened or attacked
2) We're dependent on it
3) We lack individual control of our lives
4) It's impossible or not easy to escape it

This helps to explain how Nazi Germany could happen. See, it's not just the leaders, it's the people. I don't know if the German leaders knew how to manipulate their people. It could be that all of this happened by accident. Or it could be that it happens in an instinctive, predictable way. Or maybe Hitler and his cohorts actually knew about psychology and manufactured support.

I shudder to think what pscyhopathic leaders armed with knowlede about human psychology could accomplish. We know so much more than we did in the 1930's and 1940's.

reply to post by jhn7537

My question I pose to all on here is, how does the Govt. win our trust back?

Your question implies that the Government was ever trusted in the first place. And asking that to a group of members of the largest conspiracy website on the web is kind of funny actually.

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by signalfire

 

Not sure if 28 is considered young anymore...

So its safe to say that trust is gone and gone for good, correct?

edit on 10-6-2013 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

I don't believe trust is gone forever. That's a pretty big word there. 'Forever'. Having said that, trust cannot be restored by change of leaders or office holders at this point. I think a major change of the type history books record for generations after is what it will take for the public at large to give more than a sneering glance at what this Government states as absolute fact.

They lie when the truth would serve them better and classify things secret when open display might well be of greater good for many cases. How can anyone trust that?

.....or to put it how I tell my Son. When you lie about the little things, how in God's name do you expect anyone to ever believe you on something that matters?

Once awakened, I don't think you can go back to sleep. At least I hope not. And eventually I think we will see that we need to participate more in government so that we can keep better tabs on it and it is more representative of the people. So it is more about being empowered and responsible citizens and then there is no need for trust.

pearl initiative

Pearl Initiative Anti-Corruption Program, in collaboration with World Economic Forum

Pearl Initiative efforts are underway to encourage business leaders to commit to countering bribery and to provide a regional network through which organisations can gain knowledge, benefit from mutual support and share experiences. The aim is to drive action within companies to develop, embed and monitor anti-bribery practices. We will also support the development of an External Verification Tool by which independent assessment of anti-corruption programs can be carried out and used as an indicator of performance.

Inserted as a parallel.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by jhn7537

 

My question I pose to all on here is, how does the Govt. win our trust back?

Your question implies that the Government was ever trusted in the first place. And asking that to a group of members of the largest conspiracy website on the web is kind of funny actually.

Well, maybe I'm being naive, but I just figured there was a time when the citizens trusted the Govt.

And I'm asking ATS because I feel that the majority, if not all, on here question and keep an open mind and are willing to change... I don't feel that we're all just jaded conspiracy theorists, but we are better than most out there because we just dont accept what's told to us...

reply to post by jhn7537


The varying political ideals will always cause a percentage of the citizens to not trust the government... that will never change. I do believe that keeping government in check every 20 years or so, just as Thomas Jefferson advised, is a way to keep government on a solid foundation of ideals that are centered around 'We The People'.

Our founding fathers weren't perfect either. Hell, some of them were slave owners and would be locked in jail for life if they operated the way they did in current times. What made our founding fathers so great, was that they sacrificed their comforts and lives to obtain a republic for 'We The People'.

Any government left unchecked will grow into tyrannical practices over time. There is just no such thing as a perfect government. However, if 'We The People' had the courage to give up our creature comforts and sacrifice luxuries for the good of the country's future, then trust of the 'Process' of keeping and maintaining a democracy would show to make and keep us proud as citizens. We should trust that being proud citizens will induce a more trust worthy government, rather than trust that our government will serve us proud.

Think about it... the distrust has built up for well over 200 years without the citizens keeping the government in check. We are merely long overdue for a revlolution. Yeah, we'd have hurdles to jump while doing so, and it surely won't be easy... but, at least we could be proud of standing up for 'We The People'.

I believe that what is seen and felt as distrust of government should really be felt as embarrassment and shame by us citizens for letting government obtain the levels of tyrannies that we view in current times. Really, we let the government become successful in tyrannical practices by simply giving in along the way. Why is it that it's acceptable to sit back and wait for government to fix its actions?

Being proud for our participation in the actions of government should be outweighing our trust in government. The government merely represents 'We The People' in the end. We vote these clowns into office, and we pay for them to cause distrusting feelings in us as citizens. The burden falls on 'We The People'.

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by supremecommander
You would have to be insane to trust this government. They view you and I as enemies and people of interest because we are not amongst the corporate financial elite

I agree, trust is definitely gone... We have a messed up relationship with our Govt. They enter office saying one thing and end up doing the complete opposite...

Do you see a scenario to where you trust them again?

No. Under no circumstances. How could I, or anyone else, trust them again...if there was any trust to begin with.

I have never trusted the government and never will, nor should anyone else. Government strives to control the masses and to make it's citizens conform to the will of government. That is all the reason I need to never trust any government,. To understand what government is we need to look at the word and it's roots, "govern" from the Greek "kubernao" means to drive, guide, pilot, or steer and "ment" Latin for mind.

Anyone who trusts an entity that seeks to exert it's control over every aspect of their lives is a fool and becomes a useful tool for the designs of government. Those in power should always be distrusted because the byproduct of having power and control is a desire for more.

People trusting the government and believing that government is concerned about the best interests of the people is the reason we have a runaway, criminal government now. So why exactly should we put more trust in their sinister designs?

reply to post by jhn7537

Well, maybe I'm being naive, but I just figured there was a time when the citizens trusted the Govt.

I am 51 and I have never trusted them.
But people had stills where I grew up.

I think it is possible to regain my trust in the government. But more things then just promises need to transpire. Real fixes need to be implemented that actually you know FIX things. Instead of more regulations on the civilian and business sectors, implement regulations on the government.

Unfortunately this country and as a result its leaders are so divided and corrupt, there is no way the government could reobtain my trust without first doing a massive reset.

reply to post by jhn7537

No one should ever trust their government! That's why the US government was established, and designed the way it originally was. Unfortunately, too many began to trust our government, became complacent, and allowed it to become the haven of corruption that it now is.

See ya,
Milt

Comparing it to a cheating wife/gf (or husband/bf for that matter) is a pretty good analogy. Trust is really hard to repair once its broken. The other universal truth that would fall under this issue is that power, once obtained, is incredibly hard to give up. Maybe even a little "absolute power corrupts absolutely". It's not a good situation at all.

Personally, I'd like to see the warrantless collection of data of US citizens be explicitly criminalized, regardless of whether it is being done by government or private corporations. As long as these kind of pools of information exist then these pools of information are at risk for abuse but where do you draw the line? 20 years ago, store rewards cards didn't exist so basically what the specific items that you purchased were solely between you and the store itself, obtainable by warrant. Now, using a store rewards cards basically implies an agreement that the store can collect and accumulate information about you and your purchases and in exchange, you receive a discount. Basically, people are selling their privacy every day because they perceive an immediate benefit for it (discounts). Google has been compiling user information into databases for years in an effort to cater and improve their products for their users (so they say lol). Web based email eliminated the issue of losing all of one's contacts and email history in the event of computer catastrophe. At the same time, the very basis of web based email requires the corporation hosting it to collect all of that information, which could theoretically get abused. Where do we draw the line? How do we protect ourselves from abuse?

Then there is the weirdness that could be used to defend the government's collection of that same information for if we, through continued use, wittingly allow corporations, who may have even fewer checks and oversight on its use, to accumulate and store this information, then why do we not trust the government with it? The argument that shoots that in the foot is that, while a corporation isn't capable of jailing you for your opinions, the government can so there is an infinitely greater risk associated with the government doing the same thing.

Personally, I don't trust either. I remember a time where I could control the availability of where something as basic as my location and telephone number with ease by simply requesting to be unpublished and unlisted. Now the personal information market on something as basic as that is so big that simply doing that does not guarantee that such information stays private. I've been unpublished and unlisted since 1994 and it wasn't until the last few years that I've had to actively and regularly fight to get that information removed from various people searches on an increasing basis because they are providing that information without my consent.

Control of our private and personal information needs to return to us and the collection and distribution of personal information, whether it be through government without an individual specific warrant or sale by a corporation, should be criminalized to some extent. Databases are being compiled on all of us for a variety of use and near future abuse.

In all seriousness, please take a few minutes to look at and fully comprehend this patent: www.google.com... Research the names, who they work for, and comprehend the magnitude of what this single patent alone is telling us. IBM What's being done with Prism isn't just for Prism.

Some tidbits of the patent:

Detectors 204-210 are devices for gathering data associated with a set of customers, including, but not limited to, at least one camera, motion sensor device/motion detector, sonar detection device, microphone, sound/audio recording device, audio detection device, a voice recognition system, a heat sensor/thermal sensor, a seismograph, a pressure sensor, a device for detecting odors, scents, and/or fragrances, a radio frequency identification (RFID) tag reader, a global positioning system (GPS) receiver, and/or any other detection device for detecting a presence of a human, animal, object, and/or vehicle located outside of retail facility 202.

Biometric devices 218 are one or more biometric devices for gathering biometric data associated with one or more customers. Biometric devices 218 include, without limitation, a fingerprint scanner, a retinal scanner, a voice analysis device, a device for measuring heart rate, respiration, blood pressure, body temperature, or a device for capturing any other biometric reading associated with a customer.

This is our future. It's beyond just PRISM. It needs to be stopped.

I couldn't trust my government now but I have always trusted my people.
For even at their worst, I have seen them want to maintain the right.
Good people watch out for all, the crappy people seek out people to crap on, good people stay put for the most part, remember that much.

Our government needs more people to regulate it, make em work in glass buildings.

reply to post by jhn7537


In simple terms NO. This current U.S. government and the current president should be destroyed. Obama is a liar and a criminal and has nothing but liars and criminals working for him. Previous administrations who fabricated evidence and lied to the American people and the world and caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands should be lined up against the Whitehouse wall and shot while the Constitution of this country is read aloud.
I sincerely hope that the watchers are watching me post this. Come and get me. Revolution is coming.