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Originally posted by MadMax7
The Spirit. Its revealed by the spirit otherwise it's just words regardless whether they are Greek, English Chinese or Russian.
So how about YOU read what it says in how it's revealed to the human. Or read it in Greek (says the same thing about this).
I love it how people try to make a statement thinking they are so wise and end up falling on their faces all the time. It's absolutely amazing ....and what makes ATS so much fun.edit on 4-6-2013 by MadMax7 because: (no reason given)edit on 4-6-2013 by MadMax7 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
What the OP also fails to tell people, is that 2000 years ago, only scribes, priests and pharisees could read and write. Common folk weren't taught how to read and write unless they were going into ministry.
This may have been true of the Jewish culture of 2000 years ago. But, The Greek and Roman cultures were very literate. However, I was talking about the modern Christian should bee as devote to their religion as others. It would serve the faithful to know what Jesus really said and not what has been added or changed to suit the politics of later times. Example:
]Revelation 1:11: The phrase "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and," (KJV) which is found in the King James Version was not in the original Greek texts. It is also found in the New King James Version (NKJV) and in the 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) The latter are basically re-writes of the original KJV. Modern English, is used, but the translators seem to have made little or no effort to correct errors. The Alpha Omega phrase "is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive 'A Textual Commentary' on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition (New York: United Bible Societies, 1994..."
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Magister1
We know what he said, we have concordances translated by the best scholars in the world, checked and rechecked by rabbi's who spend their entire lives dedicated to studying those ancient languages. I use an intralinear analyzer with Strong's. One reason why we don't study those languages is because most people cannot afford it and Jesus would never have wanted it to where only the rich could glean any meanings from his teaching, because he didn't target the rich. This is why since the Dark Ages, the R.C.C. had control of the scriptures and up until the 1960's it was a mortal sin for catholics to read the scriptures, only the clergy were deemed worthy enough to interpret them and the Caesars, lords and kings etc. forbid the learning of reading and writing. How many people perished do you suppose, who could not read latin, greek or hebrew because they could not read at all and even if they could it would have been forbidden for them? What did it profit them, to have some smug priest reading to them the scriptures in latin when they couldn't understand it?edit on 6-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Magister1
I have a few questions. The Jewish learn to read Hebrew in order to read the Torah: The word of God. Those of the Islamic faith learn Arabic to read the Quaran: The word of God. Also, please remember that most of those of Islamic faith are not native speakers of Arabic.
So, Why don't Christian take the time to learn the Greek of the new testament? Most don't even take the time to read the Latin translation. Also why are there so many versions of God's word? Does he keep changing his mind or are there problems with some of the translations? Why not seek to get the original version? Unless, Gods word is not important enough to take the time to learn.
How can someone claim to understand the religion when they cannot even understand:
ἐγένετο Ἰωάννης ὁ βαπτίζων ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ καὶ
κηρύσσων βάπτισμα μετανοίας εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.
fuit Iohannes in deserto baptizans et praedicans baptismum
paenitentiae in remissionem peccatorum.
The word βαπτίζω, most commonly translated as baptism, can be translated to mean anything from dipping a cup in wine, doing dishes, disabling, or driving a sword into a throat. There is a need to understand the language.
Until the present generation, the Roman Catholic Church forbade her people to read the Bible for themselves under pain of 'mortal sin.' That is, the Catholic who owned or read the Bible was de facto condemned to Hell.
The Bible was placed on Rome's Index of Forbidden Books list by the Council of Toulouse/Toledo in the year 1229. It remained there until the index was discontinued at Vatican Council II. Anyone reading or owning a 'forbidden' book was anathematized, or cursed and remanded to hell for doing so.
Cannon 14 from the Council of Toulouse says that the Roman Catholic Church:
"Forbids the laity to have in their possession any copy of the books of the Old and New Testament.... and most strictly forbids these works in the vulgar tongue."
Roman Catholic apologist Karl Keating confirms this fact when he writes that, "the bishops at Toulouse restricted the use of the Bible until the [Albigensian] heresy was ended." (Page 45, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, by Karl Keating). The peculiar thing is that the Bible remained on the Index of Forbidden Books for another 730 years! In his dance with truth, Mr. Keating takes care to omit this little fact.
Still More Evidence. This teaching was confirmed at the Council of Trent (Session IV, April 8, 1546 Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures). The Council of Trent went further, stating that anyone who dared study Scriptures on their own must "be punished with the penalties by law established." With incredible audacity, the Council of Trent went so far as to forbid even the printing of and sale of the Bible! Anyone daring to violate this decree was anathematized, or cursed and damned to Hell for it. (Dogmatic Cannons and Decrees of the Council of Trent..., pages 11-13; Copyright 1977, 1912, with Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat. Tan Books and Publishers, P.O. Box 424, Rockford, IL 61105)
Still More Evidence Liguori, the most respected of Cannon Lawyers in the Roman Catholic Church, wrote that, "The Scriptures and books of Controversy may not be permitted in the vulgar tongue, as also they cannot be read without permission."
And Yet Even More Evidence Pope Clement XI (1713), in his bull Unigenitus, wrote that "We strictly forbid them [the laity] to have the books of the Old and New Testament in the vulgar tongue."
The Bible was placed on Rome's Index of Forbidden Books list by the Council of Toulouse/Toledo in the year 1229.
This looks rather damaging, but Boettner has his history completely wrong. The first thing to note is that the Index of Forbidden Books was established in 1559, so a council held in 1229 could hardly have listed a book on it.
But there is another possibility, and that is Toulouse, France, where a council was held in 1229. And, yes, that council dealt with the Bible. It was organized in reaction to the Albigensian or Catharist heresy, which held that there are two gods and that marriage is evil because all matter (and thus physical flesh) is evil. From this the heretics concluded that fornication could be no sin, and they even encouraged suicide among their members. In order to promulgate their sect, the Albigensians published an inaccurate translation of the Bible in the vernacular language (rather like the Jehovah’s Witnesses of today publishing their severely flawed New World Translation of the Bible, which has been deliberately mistranslated to support the sect’s claims). Had it been an accurate translation, the Church would not have been concerned. Vernacular versions had been appearing for centuries. But what came from the hands of the Albigensians was an adulterated Bible. The bishops at Toulouse forbade the reading of it because it was inaccurate. In this they were caring for their flocks, just as a Protestant minister of today might tell his flock not to read the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation. (Source)