Financial Privacy Under Fire: DHS Freezes Bitcoin Money Transfers

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posted on May, 15 2013 @ 08:57 PM
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Lets see if I'm tracking this...Because bitcoin is facing a problem in the US it may affect the whole but wont kill it because it's only the US tentacle. Just like if you shut down the FED in the US the central banking system would survive because the FED is merely a tentacle of a many armed beast. Cool to learn more about bitcoin.




posted on May, 15 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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well bitcoin was already exploited by bit coin banks and bitcoin brokers just as real currencies did. being frozen at whim to correct prices they deemed proper. inappropriate for a free and disconnected currency.
so the experiment failed anyways. the whole point was to avoid such things and the bitcoin people VERY quickly sent it to the evils that have affected all other currencies anyways.

plus the only real purpose of bitcoin's existence was to trade drugs, illegal guns, and child porn anonymously. but they all try to hide that fact behind a bunch of talk of free bartering. pff lol

im going to step up on my "i told you so" podium, because i predicted this very accurately.
edit on 15-5-2013 by Bisman because: spelling error



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by Bisman
 


Is the only reason for bitcoins existence your opinion or is this something you can give a link for?



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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So far I'm going to have to side with Wrabbit on this one. When the SHTF...Let's just say a very bad global war and just to finish it off the sun delivers a few very large X flares but wait there's more...The Yellowstone Caldera blows big time and miraculously you survive ("Think you used enough dynamite there Butch")
When the smoke clears your gonna want something tangible and trade-able in your possession. Gold, Silver, alcohol, tobacco, tools, medicine. where will bitcoins be in this scenario?
edit on 15-5-2013 by minkmouse because: smoothin stuff out



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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Bitcoin cannot be destroyed or attacked. Its digital currency that doesn't require a middle man per say. They can take down as many sites as they like it wont stop the use of the currency in fact it might increase its usage. There is an entire underground market dedicated to this currency anyways. It really doesn't matter what they do the title to this thread is completely backwards you cannot freeze the transfer of Bitcoin.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by minkmouse
Lets see if I'm tracking this...Because bitcoin is facing a problem in the US it may affect the whole but wont kill it because it's only the US tentacle. Just like if you shut down the FED in the US the central banking system would survive because the FED is merely a tentacle of a many armed beast. Cool to learn more about bitcoin.


It is cool to learn more about. I wouldn't use this thread as a resource though. Most people grasping for negatives here clearly

1) don't understand it technically (this is OK, but it's not really OK to blow hot air if you don't)

2) have jumped to conclusions/are running their mouth more than usual because no one's felt like educating them FOR them

3) are doing the technology a disservice as this kind of tech could literally save the worlds' corrupted economies

Shame shame.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 


The reason we pay "taxes" is because the Federal Reserve owns the copyright to the use of their Bank Debt Note, as such, they require a "taste" of each transaction that uses THEIR means of exchange.

Things are "taxed" many times over. Your paycheck is taxed. When you buy a car, theres a tax. When you sell the car, both the seller and the new owner are taxed. Each time the same car changes hands, it is taxed again.

ETA: Thats a lot of "tasting"...
edit on 15-5-2013 by intrptr because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by bigwig22
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


The only one that i don't agree with is when you talk about losing it all over a glitch or something. True, that can happen, but with our current money system, that could also happen.


The transaction history (coin transfer between parties) has nearly infinite redundancy. You can keep your wallet/identity offline and potentially lose your ability to sign the coin over to someone else (if you lose your digital identity/key), which would in effect take the coin out of circulation (it would be like it went into a safe that no one could ever open). Plenty of stupid ways to lose non-virtual currency as well...



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


Who cares... its over. We're already done and nobody cares. I mean truely cares. Sure a handfull of people discuss it on forums like these, and sure there may be a polititian that speaks against it. But the military keeps getting stronger, the polittians keep taking away our "rights", the police keep abusing theis authority, big brother snooping keeps spreading, and the wars (for whose benefit?) keep spreading throughout the world with absolutely no end in sight.

Does anyone... ANYONE??? actually think anything can be done about any of this now? Does anyone think the government will actually give of this power back? Maybe if we just vote Republican next time? But wait... the democrat was going to change all of this... remember?!?

But hey... let's just keep bitching about it here on ATS and make ourselves feel better.

Like we're making some kind of difference.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Bisman
well bitcoin was already exploited by bit coin banks and bitcoin brokers just as real currencies did. being frozen at whim to correct prices they deemed proper. inappropriate for a free and disconnected currency.
so the experiment failed anyways. the whole point was to avoid such things and the bitcoin people VERY quickly sent it to the evils that have affected all other currencies anyways.

plus the only real purpose of bitcoin's existence was to trade drugs, illegal guns, and child porn anonymously. but they all try to hide that fact behind a bunch of talk of free bartering. pff lol

im going to step up on my "i told you so" podium, because i predicted this very accurately.
edit on 15-5-2013 by Bisman because: spelling error


The problems you describe existed largely because of a very limited number of exchanges (Mt. Gox actions affected the whole currency), but if Bitcoin takes off, a great many exchanges (means of moving Bitcoin around/exchanging with local currencies) will take off. What you are calling a deal breaker is much closer to a learned lesson (barely a growing pain). The people saying "I called this" and basking in the death of Bitcoin -- you're funny. :-) Nothing changed today. If anything, if the government gets involved, their actions will prob. have the opposite of their intended outset desire. Isn't that what often happens?



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Bisman
plus the only real purpose of bitcoin's existence was to trade drugs, illegal guns, and child porn anonymously. but they all try to hide that fact behind a bunch of talk of free bartering. pff lol


Yep (sarcasm incoming) -- and everyone who ever gave a damn about privacy must also fall into those groups. Disgraceful attitude. lol is right...



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by mecheng
 


Maybe it's just about being informed so when the carnival comes to your town you have a leg up. ATS is, at least to me , a think tank. If, out of that I derive a mission then I have been well served, If not...I'll owe the bartender across the street



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by mecheng
 


Like we're making some kind of difference.

Ah, don't give up so easily. What you just posted was a good rundown of current events. Sure you have heard it all before, but not everyone that reads your post knows this. It helps in that it makes others aware of the truth. Thats all. And that is enough.

Your post is readable by everyone everywhere that can get access to the internet. Thats a far cry from my younger years when the only people that knew what I had to say were some co-workers, family and a handful of friends.

Take heart... and your keyboard.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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Wow….. There's some people here crowing about bit coin's demise and blasting their "I told you so's" from the rooftops have done zero homework and quite frankly have no idea what they're talking about. I can only guess that they hail from the centre of the universe (USA) and haven't been out for a while.
Bitcoin is not going anywhere.
De-centralized crypto-currency won't ever be stopped.
Bitcoin might come to an end, but just like the truly free marketplaces on the Tor network, and just like torrent sites, there will be a replacement waiting in the wings.
None of this can be stopped unless TPTB switch off the internet…. BUT the freedom loving techies among us have already got that one worked out….



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:26 PM
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this will not last, there will be a uproar over this!



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by theboarman
this will not last, there will be a uproar over this!


I don't think it is enough of a player to cause said uproar, seems to me this is "nip in the bud" stuff. Of course I may be missing the bigger pic.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by ikonoklast
In the warrant, a special agent with Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), states that there's probable cause to believe Mt. Gox is engaging in "money transmitting" without a license, a crime punishable by a fine or up to five years in prison.... Mt. Gox subsidiary Mutum Sigillum LLC...


Posting facts to an outrage thread? How dare you.

Users here are already running with the idea that "the feds" are "trying to shutdown bitcoin", and no stinking facts about the actual situation are going to change that.

But for the one or two lurkers that do care about the real world, this story is more to do with the way that Mutum Sigillum was setup incorrectly, without a money transmitting licence.


Just to clarify, I actually think it's likely that "the feds are trying to shutdown Bitcoin." And I don't think the facts necessarily negate that possibility in any way.

If anything, I'm only surprised that they used a law with a maximum penalty of 5 years in prison. This is probably just a shot across Bitcoin's bow, or perhaps a test to see what the public response is.

If Homeland Security could link (or even just claim to link) any Bitcoin money transfers to terrorism, they could potentially use the NDAA to detain people until the end of the unending war on terrorism without charges or due process. These days, they could potentially even send in a drone strike if they invoke the magic word "terrorism."

Those are admittedly worst case scenarios, but look what happened to Muammar Gaddafi after the creation of the African Monetary Fund.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 

this is just one recent development in a series of developments that hint at a fascist state ramping up. seems they're wanting everyone on the dollar currency when they orchestrate it's collapse.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 10:55 PM
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Did anyone actually read the article that the op, which I dont believe even read the article fully, posted? the warrant is specifically for this company dwolla and exclusivley on their transfers of bitcurrency. the end of the article even points to speculation that it really has nothing to do with bit coin itself but the investigation of a possible transfer of funds between malicous parties. of course DHS is only authorized to disscuss the specifics of the warrant itself,

They did not shut down or freeze all of the bitcurrency system in the us. they simple ordered this one company to freeze its transfers of bit-coins pending this investigation.

Having said that, you have to be a young naive fool to believe the future of economics is in currency which does not really exist. those of us born before the internet was in everyones hands forcing their eyes upon a screen with invisible tentacles understand how silly this belief is.

the future of commerce is the past, as in fiat currency will collapse as it has always been known to do and most people will revert to barter again. How long it stays that way always depends on whether the crash was enough to completely destabalize the ruling class and how many generations it takes before banksters regain their brain-washing powers over those who choose to remain uneducated and blissfully ignorant.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by minkmouse
So far I'm going to have to side with Wrabbit on this one. When the SHTF...Let's just say a very bad global war and just to finish it off the sun delivers a few very large X flares but wait there's more...The Yellowstone Caldera blows big time and miraculously you survive ("Think you used enough dynamite there Butch")
When the smoke clears your gonna want something tangible and trade-able in your possession. Gold, Silver, alcohol, tobacco, tools, medicine. where will bitcoins be in this scenario?
edit on 15-5-2013 by minkmouse because: smoothin stuff out


Where will paper money be in that scenario?
It's a non arguament - that's like saying people shouldn't speculate on currency or buy stocks and shares





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