Financial Privacy Under Fire: DHS Freezes Bitcoin Money Transfers

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posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lacrimoniousfinale
 


Well put. A "worthless" dollar in my pocket gets me a burger at Burger King ...and even gets me a dime in change at the local one.


A bitcoin on my screen gets me...the need to get a paper dollar for that burger. Umm... I'm kinda hungry now, thinking about the difference. I better grab a dollar to solve that later. lol......


Sorry mate, your wrong,
You may be surprised what food and beverages you can pay for with Bitcoin.

www.pizzamarketplace.com...

foodler.com released an app for smart phones and is available in 48 states in USA accepting BTC for delivered fast food. So it is entirely feasible that if you had 1 BTC, at todays rate you could order 110 of your "dollar burgers" from BK.

Bitcoin has value because there are people who believe in it. As long as people are willing to "trade" using cryptocurrencies, they will always have value.

You know the Bankers are concerned about cryptocurrencies when Homeland security starts to get involved, I aint trying to convince anyone anything. The difficulty rate is high enough without having half of ATS jump on the bandwagon


BTC 13oxYTF1CDzz63FV6F'___'7xuzpH8TRnYgb idle
LTC LRzAJRu2AS3LRHRm24LBkZMFc48cQ14Z6V currently 9.6 Mh/s thaaaank you.......
FTC 72LW2jfmSJ9pghdumDNMogXqB2HPRaVZu9 idle

Feel free to toss any useless decimals my way



PEACE,
RK


edit on 15-5-2013 by Rigel Kent because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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OOPS............




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Statement Regarding DHS court Order

TOKYO - JAPAN - May 15, 2013

MtGox has read on the Internet that the United States Department of Homeland Security had a court order and/or warrant issued from the United States District Court in Maryland which it served upon the Dwolla mobile payment service with respect to accounts used for trading with MtGox. MtGox takes this information seriously. However, as of this time MtGox has not been provided with a copy of the court order and/or warrant and does not know its scope and/or the reasons for its issuance. MtGox is investigating and will provide further reports when additional information becomes known.



Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.

Mt.Gox Contact press@mtgox.com
Download PDF



mtgox.com...


PEACE,
RK



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by lacrimoniousfinale
I don't understand how a dollar in your pocket is a liability, not an asset.


I will try to explain it.

Say I am a big hypnotist. I have hypnotised all people to believe that when I write you a piece of paper with some meaningless number on it, it has value.

One day I need my garden done. I write a piece of paper with the number 100 on it and ask you if you would like to have that piece of paper. Your eyes pop out at the sight of that bit fat piece of paper and of course you agree. Note that I did not do anything else than write the paper.

So, you go to work. And when you're done, I keep my promise and give you that piece of paper. Suddenly it HAS value, and you know it has, as you just worked all week to get it.

You have been told from birth that these worthless pieces of paper have value. You believe in them and that is what gives them value. The problem is that Governments are capable of creating new (still worthless) money at will and do so. So, there is more and more money floating around - most of it not even real money anymore, just bits inside a computer. And everybody will have to work his or her tail off to give that money value.

That's how it is. Hope you understand now.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by ForteanOrg
 


and ?

we all know how fiat currencies work

bitcoin is just numbers on a computer screen - made up numbers

but people seem to have this fantasy that " its different "

when it patently is not



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Rigel Kent
 



Bitcoin has value because there are people who believe in it. As long as people are willing to "trade" using cryptocurrencies, they will always have value.


I think you sum it up best, right there. Bitcoin has value because there are people who believe in it. Similar to how the US Dollar has value because the vast majority of the planet still believes in it.

When that changes...for whatever reason and to either or both? They crash and lose all value. Whereas, if I have a shiny gold coin here? It was valuable from native tribes to the greatest halls of power. From near prehistory to the modern day at the holding vaults of the Federal Reserve Bank in New York City.

That is what I mean by worthless. Bitcoin, like the US dollar, depends ENTIRELY on the system it's created within to maintain value to who uses it that way. Remove the system and value is gone...just as fast. So, why would I trade the worthless paper of one system for the worthless binary code of another? I'd rather have neither....but at least my US dollar is seen and known, world wide and without an electronic gizmo to say so. (for now..anyway)



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


It is slightly different because the supply of bit coins is not controlled by a central bank linked to any one economy. There is no risk of hyper inflation. There will only ever be 21 million of them issued.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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Unintentionally made several grand with bit coin, bought a bunch of it with some stock money I pulled out and on a whim bought bit coin.

It shot up and I made a profit, learned a lot about it than, it's to open to manipulation as recently shown (but what financial markets aren't.)

I can see how it's the perfect medium for criminal activity, but than again so is hard cash.

Also there is a physical analogue you can buy bit coins with encoded amounts on them, but they are much more like tokens than actual currency.

Really though I thought dhs was created to ensure cooperation through federal agency's, but slowly it's turning into the US equal to the soviet era KGB.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by ForteanOrg
 

we all know how fiat currencies work


It seems that at least lacrimoniousfinale did not. So, I explained it. If you already knew this, than please ignore.


bitcoin is just numbers on a computer screen - made up numbers
but people seem to have this fantasy that " its different " when it patently is not


Oh yes, it is. See, BitCoins can not be created indefinitely like paper money or virtualisations thereof.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 


Ive done the same. When i read on ATS that the price had crashed in April i bought a grands worth when it was at its lowest, i doubled my money a few weeks later.


Id just like to thank ATS for that, i doubt id have known about it otherwise.



edit on 15-5-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by benrl
 


Ive done the same. When i read on ATS that the price had crashed in April i bought a grands worth when it was at its lowest, i doubled my money a few weeks later.


Yea I was completely shocked I bought at 7, and forgot I had it saw news that it was at over 100, was like



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


You ask why the Government has an interest? I think you just laid it out, right there. Even Pyramid schemes are wildly beneficial to some ...for some period of time. All kinds of scams work well ...at first. If they didn't, no little scam would ever grow to be a BIG one.

Now...if people put pieces of life savings or large sums from FDIC insured banks into Bitcoin and it crashes? The Government will be decried and blamed for it, for not stopping the whole thing early and not informing people of the risks.

One of the court sites I'm on has articles showing mixed success for law suits against stock brokers in the past because they were supposed to be psychic and never lose money or something. Some win...some lose, apparently. That's the kind of mentality Uncle considers at times...and rightfully so, IMO.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 


Dam that's some pretty awesome profit there


I bought in at about 40 in April and now its about 110. Much better than the 3.2% i was getting in my ISA at the bank.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by benrl
 


Ive done the same. When i read on ATS that the price had crashed in April i bought a grands worth when it was at its lowest, i doubled my money a few weeks later.


I can't blame you for the system we're in. But it is quite weird to see somebody do a thumbs up because he was able to 'create' money out of thin air by simply sitting on a stack of goodies for a while. Nobody did anything to add value - still there is added value. For you, of course. Some poor swine will have to work for it to ensure that the promises of your Government are being kept. Amazing system.


edit on 15-5-2013 by ForteanOrg because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I dont remember asking why the Government has an interest but anyway i understand what you are saying.

I think bitcoin is like gold..its only worth what people are prepaid to pay for it. Also like gold it is a finite resource. Fiat currency has no limit to the amount that could ever be in circulation.

Granted unlike gold you can touch it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Its a slightly risky venture but i think the world and especially the internet needs a virtual currency that is separate from the greedy central banks of the world. For that reason alone i think it has a better than average chance of succeeding.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by ForteanOrg

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by benrl
 


Ive done the same. When i read on ATS that the price had crashed in April i bought a grands worth when it was at its lowest, i doubled my money a few weeks later.


I can't blame you for the system we're in. But it is quite weird to see somebody do a thumbs up because he was able to 'create' money out of thin air by simply sitting on a stack of goodies for a while. Nobody did anything to add value - still there is added value. For you, of course. Some poor swine will have to work for it to ensure that the promises of your Government are being kept. Amazing system.


edit on 15-5-2013 by ForteanOrg because: (no reason given)


Yea heaven forbid someone make a profit off risking there cash on an unproven idea that pays off...



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ForteanOrg
 


I like everyone else here has had to pay for the worlds banks recent screw ups. They made US pay for their mistakes and crazy profiteering while giving their CEO's huge bonuses. Why shouldn't i make some money that is separate from those greedy organizations for a change?

I didn't create money unlike the corrupt banks with their fractional reserve banking, my assents gained VALUE. There's a huge difference.

edit on 15-5-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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I wonder if it might just be helpful if someone who has been using Bitcoin for an extended period of time and in a very serious way, did a thread explaining the ins and outs of how it works. Not a snarky, condescending "This is the master of the economy, and this is why you're stupid for not using it"....or even one with a 'See, this is why you MUST use this, for how superior it is!....which is how almost every message I've ever seen from a supporter starts or ends.

No, I wonder if someone could eventually do a thread in the same tone that would be required for explanation and patience out of a person delivering a Seminar where the whole point is to have members of the audience go from confused skeptics to excited supporters by the end of it? That level of explanation, I've never seen done. Anywhere. Not once.

It's what would, if logical, turn thinking for people like me. I know many at ATS feel as I do on this, as I've seen the same sentiment made on other Bitcoin threads. Just a professional 'just the facts' presentation made for those who have NO CLUE what a Bitcoin even is, at the outset.
(Good and Bad presented...of course)



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by ikonoklast
In the warrant, a special agent with Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), states that there's probable cause to believe Mt. Gox is engaging in "money transmitting" without a license, a crime punishable by a fine or up to five years in prison.... Mt. Gox subsidiary Mutum Sigillum LLC...




Posting facts to an outrage thread? How dare you.

Users here are already running with the idea that "the feds" are "trying to shutdown bitcoin", and no stinking facts about the actual situation are going to change that.

But for the one or two lurkers that do care about the real world, this story is more to do with the way that Mutum Sigillum was setup incorrectly, without a money transmitting licence.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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Shutting down dwolla will not shut down Bitcoin. There are many of other sources to get your money that is very difficult to shut down because they run all over the continent.



posted on May, 15 2013 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I agree with you on almost every points.

The only one that i don't agree with is when you talk about losing it all over a glitch or something. True, that can happen, but with our current money system, that could also happen.

How much physical money have you in your hands compared to the 'electronic' version of that money. I bet you have much more into your bank account. That money in your bank account can vanish in 1 half of a second for any reason. It's not safer than the bitcoin system. By any means, i think this is even less safe because of the greedy people that owns the banks and the money.

On the other hand, i can't garantee you that the people behind Bitcoin aren't as greedy as the banks. Maybe these are the same people after all. They could have seen a good opportunity in this when they noticed a growing number of people were losing trust into their system and were looking for an alternative.

The conspiracy could be that they are the really same people and they want us to believe otherwise by making a move like this one. People will for sure believe that the banks feels unsafe about this system and may be tempted to use that currency only for that reason. Win-win for the banks, they would still have total control over the money system. If the banks are scared, that must be good for regular people
That's a theory and I hope it isn't real ... if so, we are really screwed again.

Peace out.





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