Faking membership in a Secret Society to gain ?

When a new member comes in and claims to belong to a group, usually the members of that group "vet" the new member. Usually through casual conversation, looking for key words and phrases to identify them. I personally cannot speak for any group other than Masonry as that is the only one I am a member of. Many catch phrases are used and can be picked up on in normal conversation, so if we pay attention, we may spot a member before he identifies himself. But, what of the fakers?

Some can be very convincing. Especially if they have done their homework. But what would anyone gain by faking membership, knowing that the members will not accept their credentials? To me, it just seems pointless. Let facts do the speaking. Honor and integrity go a long way here. Once you loose that, you might as well fade away.

Knowing that the best you could do is impress the uninformed, what other motivation could exist?

I won't fake anything but I am most likely somewhat misinformed at best, and would like to be impressed.

What do you know about Mercurius and Mercurius Senex? Prima and Ultima Materia?
That's what I am into right now.

Sometimes I'll throw in a word that isn't all that uncommon, but can be interpreted as a signal. For instance, when dealing with police or judges, I'll sometimes use a phrase like "Here's my license. Everything should be square." Or, "How are you today your honor? 'Good, Mr. X, and yourself?' "On the level, I'd rather be at home."

Originally posted by DaTroof
Sometimes I'll throw in a word that isn't all that uncommon, but can be interpreted as a signal. For instance, when dealing with police or judges, I'll sometimes use a phrase like "Here's my license. Everything should be square." Or, "How are you today your honor? 'Good, Mr. X, and yourself?' "On the level, I'd rather be at home."

Speaking of squares, what do you know about this?
A magical square

Ok ok, I'll stop.
For now.

reply to post by DaTroof


Those are the kind of answers that will prompt more questions. But usually, only if you are talking to a mason. Amazingly enough, a lot of masonic jargon has made it into main stream speak.

"level with me, a square deal," I am sure there are more, but that is what I can think of off the top of my head.

reply to post by muzzleflash


medication and Final fantasy? interesting combination unless the bing definitions were garbage.
Either way, I have no Earthly idea other than what the idiot box tells me. Am I close?

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by DaTroof
Sometimes I'll throw in a word that isn't all that uncommon, but can be interpreted as a signal. For instance, when dealing with police or judges, I'll sometimes use a phrase like "Here's my license. Everything should be square." Or, "How are you today your honor? 'Good, Mr. X, and yourself?' "On the level, I'd rather be at home."

Speaking of squares, what do you know about this?
A magical square

Ok ok, I'll stop.
For now.

Hmmm the Tau is all prime

ND people often fake in order to gain trust then gain information, but as you know they don't get anything out of us as what we don't discuss isn't up for discussion outside of lodge.

reply to post by Jamjar


I suppose I get the Why, but it's not like they would be satisfied with any information they received. If nobody offered the meeting times for the NWO agenda, or the Guarantee get out of jail free card, then they must be dealing with lower level masons.

(any good mason knows that stuff doesn't come out until the 34th degree)

reply to post by network dude


Could be that the people that try to fake are suffering some sociopathic disorder and rather than faking they are imitating in order to receive group approval.

I guess for some people it's just ego stroking.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Sometimes I'll throw in a word that isn't all that uncommon, but can be interpreted as a signal. For instance, when dealing with police or judges, I'll sometimes use a phrase like "Here's my license. Everything should be square." Or, "How are you today your honor? 'Good, Mr. X, and yourself?' "On the level, I'd rather be at home."

Okay, your post gave me quite a chuckle...

I am a member of three secret societies. Throughout my day, I come across many people who may or may not be members of the same type of societies in which I engage. At no point in my conversations, with known or unknown individuals, do I ever "code" my words to ascertain whether I am speaking with another member. Nor do I analyze their comments for the same. Maybe this is a practice limited to Masonry? I don't know, but typically the mundane is kept as the mundane...

reply to post by CIAGypsy


I know very few Masons who try to "decode" what others are saying . If someone told me 'Everything is square" and "on the level" it WOULD NOT peak my interest in the slightest . They are far to common of terms .

But it is not something we do here in my area . If I am curious if someone is a Mason , I just ask . If someone is going above and beyond trying to get my attention that they are a Mason , I just give them a head nod . My town is lousy with Masons and we do not spend our time out trying to figure out who is a Mason and who is not . And it is normally new Masons who go around introducing themselves to other Masons . I personally do not care if someone is a Mason unless he is trying to get into one of my lodges .

If you are not certain whether a person is faking membership in the masons, you could just ask " Are you a mason?" you will know by hteir answer. It would save you alot of time from your vetting process.

reply to post by borracho


Normally, that's all you need. (in the real world that is.) But here, anyone can claim anything they like. And of course it doesn't matter what they claim since we are all faceless internet dwellers. But as was the case the other day, a person claimed to be quite the accomplished mason, yet held a very anti masonic viewpoint and had little to no idea of the structure of masonry as a whole. So their testimony was regarded as garbage by the masons, but for non members to happen by, they might take that posters words as gospel.

In the end, none of it matters and this thread has as much bearing on the world turning as any other thread (none) but in the interest of sparking new discussion, I tried to hit the SS forum with the paddles. Pulse is still very weak.

reply to post by whenandwhere


I am curious, having heard other masons from other areas mention that they use the conversation starters like "are you a traveling man?" or some such language to question a person of their affiliation to which there is a specific reply I am told, have you ever come in contact with such a thing?

I was told some areas teach that to the initiate, but if someone started that kind of a conversation with me, I would have to respond with the Red Dawn code, "the chair is against the wall, and Jack has a long mustache". Probably be viewed as an idiot, but that might save everyone some time in the end.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by whenandwhere

 

I am curious, having heard other masons from other areas mention that they use the conversation starters like "are you a traveling man?" or some such language to question a person of their affiliation to which there is a specific reply I am told, have you ever come in contact with such a thing?

I was told some areas teach that to the initiate, but if someone started that kind of a conversation with me, I would have to respond with the Red Dawn code, "the chair is against the wall, and Jack has a long mustache". Probably be viewed as an idiot, but that might save everyone some time in the end.

The old heads used to use those types of conversation starters but it is no longer used by us . If I see a ring and I am in a talkative mood , I may ask "What Lodge are you a member ? " but that's about it when conversing about Masonry . I have been asked once in another state if I was a traveling man by an old man , my answer was Yes and I told him my lodge name and number and my Grand lodge , shook his hand and off I went .

I tend to travel a lot (more so as DDGM) and I get "Masoned out" so I tend to avoid talking to Masons when I am not in lodge . I do not wear (well , almost never) anything that marks me as a Mason any longer as that "thrill" wore off many years ago . My wife will notice a ring , shirt or hat and point them out to me and I will only shrug my shoulders . As I said , my town is lousy with Masons LOL , I can throw a rock and hit one .

As I said in my previous post , new Masons are the most enthusiastic because they are new and excited . I have had them give me an EA (and a couple of others) grip in plain view of my wife . I pulled my hand away , told them this is not the time nor the place (in a friendly manner) told them that it was good to meet them and off I went .

But on to your pretend Masons . I was once at a sister lodge when two young visitors showed up , I was acting Tyler so it was up to me to try them . I first asked for dues cards . The cards (or pieces of printer paper) they handed me were off . The paper was wrong , no lodge seal nor were they signed . I told them that their dues cards were not kosher so I tried them . They could answer a few questions thanks to the internet , but I tend to get a little too in depth because I will ask you questions where the answers come from the Middle Chamber Lecture (for instance) . They failed my tests and finally admitted that the dues cards were fake (printed off the internet) . I asked them "Why?" and they stated that they just wanted to see what went on in a lodge . I told them that they would be bored to tears in ten minutes .

On here is another story . I guess Some thinks it will give their accusations more credence , but they are found out rather quickly . Some though have really done their home work and are a little more convincing but will be caught up in their lies eventually .

Originally posted by whenandwhere
"Masoned out"

Now that made me laugh. I can only imagine. You are on your second or third year as DDGM right? That is a job I would not like until I was retired. Better you than me.
thanks for the smile.

Being very new to Masonry (having only been initiated at the beginning of May, hoping to be passed in mid-June), I think I probably wouldn't definitively pass anybody's test. If I was asked for the signs or grips, to recite the EA obligation or some other part of the EA memory work, I would give them, but since all of that can be found online, and the wordings vary, how could you know for sure?

I don't know why anyone would want to fake it, unless, as above, they are curious and want to see for themselves what the fuss is about. Online fakers, especially those with some kind of axe to grind, or who wish to spread lies, may want to pretend to be Masons - usually very "high up" (as they put it) especially - a past WM or member of the Grand Lodge - so that the lies they wish to spread carry more weight. But who knows for sure?

I had to laugh to myself when whenandwhere wrote that the attempted "invaders" would be bored to tears. I went to my first actual lodge meeting this week, and found myself nodding about midway through. Yup, reading of three months' worth of minutes and sharing news of the illnesses of Brothers or their spouses is riveting stuff alright...

reply to post by network dude


Then the credentials need to be questioned as well. If someone has been studying masonry for 30 odd years, study each of the degrees in depth and has done corresponding reading, then on the same merit, they aren't faking anything in terms of knowledge, it id you assuming them to be an imposter on the count that they don't have registered paper work?

Originally posted by The 5th
reply to post by network dude

 

Then the credentials need to be questioned as well. If someone has been studying masonry for 30 odd years, study each of the degrees in depth and has done corresponding reading, then on the same merit, they aren't faking anything in terms of knowledge, it id you assuming them to be an imposter on the count that they don't have registered paper work?

First things first: You're either a Mason or you're not. Period.

Second, it doesn't matter how long someone has been "studying" Masonry; someone who is not a Mason and claims that they are is a fraud, an impostor, and a liar, and as such forfeits any and all credibility.

Now to the point: The biggest problem with self-education is the material out there. While some is good and truthful, a lot of what you'll find is published with wilful malice by people who have been refused membership or ejected. Some is published by "Born Agains" (AKA Christian Taliban), who, like the Taliban, cherry-pick scripture and twist it to fit their agenda. Some is published by known paranoid CT crackpots, for whom lies and unsupported conjecture as "shocking fact" are their livelihood - they make their income from books and speaking engagements. And finally, there are the known hoaxes that keep getting published by those who have failed to fact-check.

So, while self-education may alow you know more than the average Joe on the street, you also need to be able to separate fact from fabrication. You can read all about the rituals, but it's not the same as being there - you have to experience it for yourself to get the real meaning. And because non-Masons have NOT experienced it, that means that regardless of how much they may have studied, there is still no way any of them can know as much about the Craft, how it works, and how it's structured as a Mason, plain and simple. Those on the outside who claim otherwise have bought into the CT lies.

reply to post by IslandMason


First things first: You're either a Mason or you're not. Period.

Second, it doesn't matter how long someone has been "studying" Masonry; someone who is not a Mason and claims that they are is a fraud, an impostor, and a liar, and as such forfeits any and all credibility.

Yes, I appreciate that. What I was trying to imply was that if someone was studying it, (don't understand your air marks around studying it, it is a perfectly legitimate subject to study) and they were talking to a Mason, and perhaps an aspect of a degree came up, they might not be faking they are a Mason but talking about a concept in a degree that they have studied and know equally much about.

Now to the point: The biggest problem with self-education is the material out there. While some is good and truthful, a lot of what you'll find is published with wilful malice by people who have been refused membership or ejected. Some is published by "Born Agains" (AKA Christian Taliban), who, like the Taliban, cherry-pick scripture and twist it to fit their agenda. Some is published by known paranoid CT crackpots, for whom lies and unsupported conjecture as "shocking fact" are their livelihood - they make their income from books and speaking engagements. And finally, there are the known hoaxes that keep getting published by those who have failed to fact-check.

So, while self-education may alow you know more than the average Joe on the street, you also need to be able to separate fact from fabrication. You can read all about the rituals, but it's not the same as being there - you have to experience it for yourself to get the real meaning. And because non-Masons have NOT experienced it, that means that regardless of how much they may have studied, there is still no way any of them can know as much about the Craft, how it works, and how it's structured as a Mason, plain and simple. Those on the outside who claim otherwise have bought into the CT lies.

I don't understand why you think self-study is such a murky area, surely anyone who wanted to study it properly would find legitimate books on masonic sites or libraries and go through the appropriate channels. I think even if you had no basis in what is considered an authority text, it wouldn't take long to distinguish McKenzie from a Leo Taxil.

Again, I am not sure why you are bringing CT into what I was saying. There is of course going to be a different interpretation garnered from experience of a ritual than reading it, but I wouldn't assume that because of a lack of direct experience wouldn't mean that the ritual and the allegories couldn't be understood from reading and understanding why they were facing a certain direction and be why aspects of a ritual incorporated this,that or the other etc.