Faking membership in a Secret Society to gain ?

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posted on May, 25 2013 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by The 5th
 


I have no problem with someone who is interested in the subject enough to study it. Its when they pretend to be something they are not. All the study (if we have done our jobs right) will not answer every question so we should be able to determine a fake.

The whole member secrecy thing came about when the masons were a traveling builders union. (operative) If they let anyone call themselves a mason then they will 1. loose work, and 2 have poor workmanship used in their name. So they had a lot to protect. IT was their livelihood.

This thread was in response to a poster who tried to pass themselves off as a rather prestigious member who had quit. I was just trying to understand why someone would go to that much trouble to learn the right things to say, only to start blurting out the same old trash a few paragraphs later to be known as a fraud.




posted on May, 25 2013 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by The 5th
Again, I am not sure why you are bringing CT into what I was saying. There is of course going to be a different interpretation garnered from experience of a ritual than reading it, but I wouldn't assume that because of a lack of direct experience wouldn't mean that the ritual and the allegories couldn't be understood from reading and understanding why they were facing a certain direction and be why aspects of a ritual incorporated this,that or the other etc.


I tend to agree with you. While the degrees and ceremonies are solemn and impressive, one need not be a Mason to exercise the lessons of the degrees which are universal:

Charity, Brotherly Love, Truth.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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Quite sure I wouldn't want a secret society pissed at me cause I lied.. I may go missing.....



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by The 5th
reply to post by IslandMason
 


I don't understand why you think self-study is such a murky area, surely anyone who wanted to study it properly would find legitimate books on masonic sites or libraries and go through the appropriate channels. I think even if you had no basis in what is considered an authority text, it wouldn't take long to distinguish McKenzie from a Leo Taxil.

Again, I am not sure why you are bringing CT into what I was saying. There is of course going to be a different interpretation garnered from experience of a ritual than reading it, but I wouldn't assume that because of a lack of direct experience wouldn't mean that the ritual and the allegories couldn't be understood from reading and understanding why they were facing a certain direction and be why aspects of a ritual incorporated this,that or the other etc.



I was simply saying that self study can be polluted or clouded by material that's less-than-truthful, and it's sometimes hard to tell the difference. Of course, if the book you read contains any mention of Baphomet or Baal worship, riding goats, or shape-shifting reptilian aliens from Nibiru, it's safe to assume that book is BS. OTOH, some of the misinformation out there is very well written and not outwardly outlandish, which sometimes makes it difficult to discern what is an authoritative work, and what is fraudulent. I'm by no means an expert in Masonry, having only recently been initiated, but I did quite a bit of reading before applying for membership, and because we have a family history in Masonry, I could spot much of the (seemingly well-reasoned) falsehood fairly quickly, where perhaps some wouldn't. That's not implying any superior intelligence or skill on my part, it's just saying that clearly, many can't discern fact from fiction, as evidenced by the sheer number of anti-Masonic works and CTs out there.

I bring CTs into the conversation only because they are the purveyors of much of the untruth that is out there. It's also why I used quotations around the word "study" in my first response - there's a lot of misinterpretation and falsehood put forth by CTs and anti-Masons, and I've found that many people who claim to have "studied" the Craft often get their material from those erroneous sources.

I think that "book knowledge" is wonderful, and if that knowledge is derived from the right sources, can be incredibly insightful. But it is also lacking from a practical, "real world" perspective. You can know all the theory there is to know about a particular subject but without experience, you still can't speak with authority. A music student may be able to quote music theory and history, but have no musical "ear" and can't play to save their life (I know many like this). A graduate of Computer Science or Engineering, who may have been a straight A+ student throughout their university studies still knows nothing compared to those who have been on the job for 5-10-20 years. In short, there's no substitute for practical experience.

To me, the same applies to Masonry. You can learn all of the ritual, what each symbol means, why you face a particular direction, and so on, and yes, then you will know the academics of it, but a large part of Masonry is the personal component - the spiritual journey, that can only come from participation. Even as a new initiate I know this is true; I can only imagine what it's like further on...
edit on 25-5-2013 by IslandMason because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by The 5th
Again, I am not sure why you are bringing CT into what I was saying. There is of course going to be a different interpretation garnered from experience of a ritual than reading it, but I wouldn't assume that because of a lack of direct experience wouldn't mean that the ritual and the allegories couldn't be understood from reading and understanding why they were facing a certain direction and be why aspects of a ritual incorporated this,that or the other etc.


I tend to agree with you. While the degrees and ceremonies are solemn and impressive, one need not be a Mason to exercise the lessons of the degrees which are universal:

Charity, Brotherly Love, Truth.


Of course one can practice all of that without being Mason. I was just saying that book knowledge is no substitute for experience.



posted on May, 25 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by makaveli3601
Quite sure I wouldn't want a secret society pissed at me cause I lied.. I may go missing.....


I'm pretty sure you're safe. That's never happened to anyone, at least at the hands of Masons. Well, there is the subject of WIlliam Morgan, but it's only been speculated that he was abducted by Masons; it's never been proven one way or another.



posted on Jun, 27 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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It's not like no one's ever tried to "spill the beans" before. The most famous example of this is the Morgan Affair. From Wikipedia et al:


Morgan attempted to join the Masonic lodge in Batavia but was denied admission.[5] Angered by the rejection, Morgan said he was going to publish a book entitled Illustrations of Masonry,[6] critical of the Freemasons and describing their secret degree work in great detail. He said that a local newspaper publisher, David Cade Miller, had given him a sizable advance for the work. Miller is said to have received the entered apprentice degree (the first degree of Freemasonry), but had been stopped from advancement by the objection of one or more of the Batavia lodge members.[4]


Masons know each other as friends and brothers. I myself initiated in June of 2012, so I just had my first Masonic Birthday. When I last went to the Grand Lodge in Philadelphia where my Lodge meets, I realized I had forgotten my dues card. When I explained this to the front desk guard (also a Master Mason, but one who didn't know me personally) I expected him to ask for my ID, check a registry, make a phone call, or at least ask me to shake his hand the proper way. But instead, he simply took me at my word and let me pass. Of course, the Lodge meeting itself doesn't come to order without a general "Everyone here's a Master Mason, right?" I won't repeat the exact phrasing because, well, it's a secret.


I guess my point is, if someone were trying to sneak in, they would stick out like a sore thumb since nobody would know them. Part of being a Mason is getting to know people in your Lodge, and becoming known yourself. Guests from other Lodges are allowed as long as they are Masons, and are accompanied by one belonging to the Lodge being visited. Sneaking a non-Mason into a Lodge Meeting by lying to the Lodge could work, but it would likely result in the actual Mason being expelled from the Craft.

Also, they'd both have this guy to contend with….

But in all seriousness, there's a pretty think blanket of trust that's woven in the hallowed halls of a Masonic Lodge. As far as I understand the Craft, the word of one Mason is considered good enough for another, until there is a rock solid (pun intended) cause to believe otherwise. Even when put on trial for gross misconduct, the benefit of the doubt is usually preferred and given until there is sufficient and damning evidence to remove such doubt. If there's a rat, we'd smell him. I hope this long-winded post has been of some use and good humor.

Peace,
JS1221
edit on 27-6-2013 by johnsequitur1221 because: it's a secret.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by johnsequitur1221
Masons know each other as friends and brothers. I myself initiated in June of 2012, so I just had my first Masonic Birthday.

June is also marks when I was Raised, just in 2006.


When I last went to the Grand Lodge in Philadelphia where my Lodge meets, I realized I had forgotten my dues card.

That's a beautiful building. I went there in Oct of 2011 and attended the Academy of Masonic Knowledge's meeting in Elizabethtown. Great time.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Heres my guess.

Some people feel that opening their minds to these types of beliefs is a deadly sin and can only justify their education if the end result is espionage.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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Shortly after I was raised to the degree of Master Mason, I became friends with an elderly mason who collected photos of Texas lodges. Not only active ones, but old ones that had moved, etc. His was an incredible collection.

I was passing through a town noted for its wonderful architecture, and stopped to photograph the old lodge building downtown (now a bed & breakfast). Then I drove out to the new lodge. While I was taking pictures, a fellow came OUT of the lodge and a couple of cars pulled up in front. It was not that long after 9-11, and they were afraid I was planning a violent act or something.

As it happened, I didn't have my dues card with me.

They asked me several questions, then led me into the lodge and asked me to arrange the furnishings for a particular point in a certain degree, which I quickly did. That satisfied them. I asked them what they would have thought, if I had forgotten that part of ritual.

What the Tyler (doorkeeper) said next really got me thinking. He said that they had a number of young men try to fake membership based on books they'd read. So they asked them to set the stage for the moment when the Master summons the lodge to work. Something every master mason has seen countless times, but an investigator will have never witnessed, or even read about. According to them, if you couldn't set up the furnishings of that moment, then you weren't 'really' a mason, regardless of any dues card in your wallet.

I would tend to agree.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by tovenar
 


I had not thought of that.
I bet you could weed out most fakers quite quickly.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 07:07 AM
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I need to know how to get back into masonry...or if it is even possible...been out of the lodge for almost ten years...Am i verboten now?



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by totallackey
 


Actually, you just need to contact your local secretary of your lodge. I recently helped a friend in the same situation. He was able to just pay one years dues and request a re-in statement. It will be voted on in the lodge and then you are back in. (so long as you left under favorable circumstances, ie, NPD)
different states may vary, but this is how it worked with me. If I can help, let me know.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Thank you very much.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by whenandwhere
 


Must be different with the Masons. My only organization has been the Jaycees, and they kick you out when you hit 40. I suppose you don't get the same opportunity to get burned out that way. Most Jaycees I meet aren't nearly as Jaded about their organization as you are. I'm disheartened by your attitude.



posted on Jul, 3 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by therealdemoboy
 


Boot you out at 40? That seems a bit strange. The older dudes are the ones who have time and energy to put into civic projects. Us young whipper snappers are too busy working for the man, being slaves to the dollar and the like.

BTW, I don't think he is jaded as much as he might be a bit tired as his current position is quite labor intensive.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by therealdemoboy
reply to post by whenandwhere
 


Must be different with the Masons. My only organization has been the Jaycees, and they kick you out when you hit 40. I suppose you don't get the same opportunity to get burned out that way. Most Jaycees I meet aren't nearly as Jaded about their organization as you are. I'm disheartened by your attitude.


Why would you be disheartened by my attitude , and what attitude is that ? I am tired , I am constantly running from one lodge to another , my phone rings "off the hook" dealing with problems , answering questions or just telling lodges/members what they can or can not do . My DDGM position is a full time job .

When I am out in public with my wife and/or trying to enjoy myself , I do not want to talk about Masonry . Why is that a bad thing ? When I am home I do not want to talk about work either ?



posted on Jul, 6 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by therealdemoboy
 


Boot you out at 40? That seems a bit strange. The older dudes are the ones who have time and energy to put into civic projects. Us young whipper snappers are too busy working for the man, being slaves to the dollar and the like.

BTW, I don't think he is jaded as much as he might be a bit tired as his current position is quite labor intensive.




The United States Junior Chamber ( JCs' or Jaycees) was aimed at building leadership skills and a civic organization for young men ages 18 to 35 . The age limit had nothing to do with burn out as alluded to by the other poster , the purpose of the Jaycees was to teach young men leadership/management skills and business development by helping others through community service . I guess they figured older men and retirees did not need to work on their leadership skills .

In the 80's they raised the cut off age to 40 as they were dying off .

My town's Jaycees have since closed their doors . Such a shame , one of their community services was that they made weekly visits to the children's wing of the local hospitals dressed as clowns , handed out gifts etc ; etc; . This was were I received my first set of tinker toys in 1971 as a young lad in for an operation .





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