Trinitarians are Polytheists

reply to post by WarriorOfLight96

The God that became flesh to deliver the massage to those who try so hard but fail and we know only two survived that last time earth was punished and that's why he became flesh.

I can't identify what you are alluding to here. Would you please clarify this?

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by WarriorOfLight96

The God that became flesh to deliver the massage to those who try so hard but fail and we know only two survived that last time earth was punished and that's why he became flesh.

I can't identify what you are alluding to here. Would you please clarify this?

I would guess hes talking about Noah?

reply to post by Akragon

I would guess hes talking about Noah?

The Noah story has eight people being saved.

Sodom and Gomorrah has three
Perhaps three set out to warn Sodom, and only two of them made it, maybe some flaw in the third?

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Akragon

I would guess hes talking about Noah?

The Noah story has eight people being saved.

Sodom and Gomorrah has three
Perhaps three set out to warn Sodom, and only two of them made it, maybe some flaw in the third?

edit on 10-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)

true, but he said punishment on the world... where as S&G were just cities...

Perhaps he just doesn't know the story that well?

reply to post by Akragon


I'm gonna agree with your assessment Aaron.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I'm gonna agree with your assessment Aaron.

He may just come back with something that leaves us in a face palm moment. Could happen.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by NOTurTypical

I'm gonna agree with your assessment Aaron.

He may just come back with something that leaves us in a face palm moment. Could happen.

Wouldn't be the first time, certainly wouldn't be my last either.

A quick search and I found these. That'll save ATSers from reading walls of text.

The information is out there, I hope people will read them, even if one doesn't believe them, perhaps a little seed can be planted.

Cheers.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by WarriorOfLight96

The God that became flesh to deliver the massage to those who try so hard but fail and we know only two survived that last time earth was punished and that's why he became flesh.

I can't identify what you are alluding to here. Would you please clarify this?

He had me lost with the "massages".

reply to post by truejew

I'm guessing that it might refer to the LORD appearing to Abraham in Genesis 18.

Verse 1 and 2, he sees three men. Then there the negotiation about saving S&G. 19:1 When the two angels arrive. What happened to the third?

Gospel of Thomas 30)

Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods.
Where there are two or one, I am with him."

reply to post by pthena


But in Genesis 18 one of the three "men" was the Lord, the other two were angels.

reply to post by pthena

. . . even though the Old was not always monotheistic, but is contradictory within its own body of literature.

Paul said there were many gods.
I don't think the Jews became strictly monotheistic until after the church became strictly trinitarian.
"Monotheism" was not even used as a word until 1500, though it looks like it might be older because it was created from Greek words.

reply to post by pthena

I can't identify what you are alluding to here.

I think he means an earlier civilization that we don't know about, that was destroyed, leaving Adam and Eve.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

But in Genesis 18 one of the three "men" was the Lord, the other two were angels.

Amazing! Note that I am merely using an English translation - WEB, World English Bible - public domain, widely and freely available online. I am after all just a Barbarian heathen.

Genesis 18
1 Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and saw that three men stood opposite him.

Does this imply that by seeing these three men, he was seeing Yahweh? Is that three persons, and yet one Yahweh?

When he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth, 3 and said, “My lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, please don’t go away from your servant.

He addressed them in the singular.

They said, “Very well, do as you have said.”

They plural responded. Curious!

He stood by them under the tree, and they ate.

9 They asked him, “Where is Sarah, your wife?”

Curiouser and curiouser! He/They didn't just touch the food and it burned like in other angel visitation stories. He/They ate.

20 Yahweh said, “Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, 21 I will go down now, and see whether their deeds are as bad as the reports which have come to me. If not, I will know.”

Take careful note of this: That Yahweh would go down and see for himself.

22 The men turned from there, and went toward Sodom, but Abraham stood yet before Yahweh.

Did Yahweh lie? Or did he actually go down to Sodom to see for himself?

Chapter 19
1 The two angels came to Sodom at evening.

Oh! Then he didn't lie, because those two angels were Yahweh, and yet those two angels were probably two of those three men.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I think he means an earlier civilization that we don't know about, that was destroyed, leaving Adam and Eve.

I had considered that also, but I really wanted to break down Genesis 18, for what it had to say about human Yahweh/Yahwehs.

The problem with the Adam and Eve story as sole survivors is that there were all those other people living outside of the garden. Cain was very quickly building a city which would not be probable if it were just him and some hypothetical sister having children.

reply to post by pthena


It's usually a good idea to cite your source and translation. There are some that are simply unacceptable because of known errors and biases (I usually cite the NIV, which most people dislike a lot, lol.)

reply to post by adjensen

Thank you. I have edited my post.

(I usually cite the NIV, which most people dislike a lot, lol.)

My hard copy Giant Print (old eyes) Bible is NIV, my quickly copied and pasted version is WEB. I do generally consult both before posting.

reply to post by pthena


I'm sorry I didnt notice this because my fingers typing on this phone is a pain,when you have sausages fingers but I dont know how I ended up with 2 and maybe I was thinking about the two of each animals. I ll be back tomorrow.

Originally posted by Cuervo
Personally, I consider that to be in the realm of polytheism but I also don't believe Christians should beat themselves up over it as they are still worshiping their "one true god" even if they are worshiping different aspects of it. I don't have to worry about that myself because I really do worship more than one deity so an accusation of polytheism doesn't really bother me.

I feel for the Christians here because it's a hard case to argue but I get it. I hope they can someday just admit that it is very much like polytheism but it does not count as "worshiping other gods".

I second Cuervo's words here, "I also don't believe Christians should beat themselves up over it as they are still worshiping their "one true god" even if they are worshiping different aspects of it."

Before I introduce my God, I want this to be very clearly understood: I am a Gentile, I am not an Israelite. I am not born under the Law. I have never been bar mitzvahed. I am in no way obligated to the Old Testament, for either knowledge of God, or for moral practice.

Also, I am not a Greek. I am under no obligation to any Greek city god, past or present.

Also, I am not a Roman. I am under no obligation to any Roman god, be it republic god, empire god, or papal god.

I am not Mongolian. I am under no obligation to Turkic gods, nor do I owe any allegiance to any Khan, Kagan, or Kohen.

My religion has long passed away. It does not exist in this World, except in my heart, and maybe in a few other hearts besides. My God however has not passed away. He is still there. The religion is gone, only preserved within human language.

The god's name in the nominative is Ζεύς Zeús /zdeús/. It is inflected as follows: vocative: Ζεῦ / Zeû; accusative: Δία / Día; genitive: Διός / Diós; dative: Διί / Dií.
Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").[7] The god is known under this name in the Rigveda (Vedic Sanskrit Dyaus/Dyaus Pita), Latin (compare Jupiter, from Iuppiter, deriving from the Proto-Indo-European vocative *dyeu-ph2tēr[8]), deriving from the root *dyeu- ("to shine", and in its many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god").[7]
Zeus - Name

Sky Father is also known as Tengri/Tenger Etseg in Turkic and Mongolian.

I remind you that I am in no way obligated to any myth or ritual or image or temple or mountain or city no matter how holy people may consider them to be. Big Blue cannot be personified in any way. None of the stories of personified deities doing this, or begetting that, have any relevance.

John 4: 21 Jesus said to her, "“Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, will you worship the Father. 22 You worship that which you don’t know. We worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to be his worshippers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”"
- WEB -

How does this relate to this thread?

Matt 5:33 “Again you have heard that it was said to them of old time, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall perform to the Lord your vows,’ 34 but I tell you, don’t swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God; 35 nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shall you swear by your head, for you can’t make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No.’ Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.

Here are listed three gods: Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem.

and

Matt 23:16 “Woe to you, you blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obligated.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18 ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obligated?’ 19 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 He therefore who swears by the altar, swears by it, and by everything on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it, and by him who was living in it. 22 He who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God, and by him who sits on it.

Here again are three gods, maybe more: The alter, the temple, he who lived in it (personification or angel), Heaven, Him who sits on it (another personification, probably invisible).

reply to post by pthena


So how did you come to the conclusion that Zeus is Gods name?

I didn't know Zeus was a trinity?