So It Begins?

reply to post by mideast


I want to ask you a question. Was Haggar Abrahams wife or mistress?

The reason I ask is because many muslims bring up the fact that Haggar had the prophesized child that would bear the messiah. When In actuality God promised he would be from his WIFE and not his mistress. So how can Muhammed have been the prophet/messiah? His side fo the family was not born from Abrahams wife.

ALso Even though Abraham had a child with Haggar first. according to Gods promise he would have the messiahs/prophets future ancestor with HIS WIFE Correct? And since that is true does it not stand to reason that muhammed is not who he thinks he was?

reply to post by whatzshaken


The fact is that the tensions are not going to be solved by sending more guns and money to support war.

The simple solution is to get people to forgive each other and get in peace. Like what Iran did in it's eastern tribes of Sistan and Baluchestan. They get people in peace and unity by getting to negotiate and talk about their problems.

But US govt doesn't want unity and peace. But it wants division and war.

Because blood shed and vengeance is the force that will get people ready for divide and conquer.

reply to post by cody599


So you choose to ignore the reply here

And the fact that other nations like Fat Saudi kings , don't have the right to decide for the lands of Palestinians .

You ignore the terror and massacre in Sbra and shatil and dayr Yasin

You justify that some Arab countries including puppets wanted to attack Israel , and Israel got mad and took all lands of Palestine ?

And regarding the reply I sent , you say US is bringing peace ?

Maybe we will have things to argue on the other side because you are clearly ignoring the truth , but I choose to leave you and the blood of the dead.

following the rockets attacks..now i think yes it began

reply to post by yuppa

I want to ask you a question. Was Haggar Abrahams wife or mistress?

She was servant of Sara which was gifted to Ibrahim to get a baby from her , because Sara couldn't bring a boy since that age. She gave birth to Ismael PBUH.

There are actual evidence that Ibrahim pbum was father of Ismael pbuh like :

1-Like the fountain Zamzam which baby Ismail pbuh digged with his foot near Kaba.

2-The foot print of Ibrahim pbuh on the stone that he was rebuilding Kaba on.

3-The reconstruction of Kaba.(which was buil by Adam pbuh and was destroyed in noah's flood)

4-The stone that Ibrahim pbuh was slaying Ismail pbuh on.

Jesus pbuh and Moses pbuh were sons of Ibrahim pbuh from his wife Sarah , but Muhammad pbuh is the son of Ismail , son of Hagar.

And since that is true does it not stand to reason that muhammed is not who he thinks he was?

I don't know who is Mesiah , but Muhaamad pbuh didn't say anything from himself after he was prophet.

And if you think he stole the passage from testaments , there are many contradictions with those books and many points that are not mentioned anywhere else , but in Qur'an.

reply to post by whatzshaken


I'm sorry did you miss the term PALISTENIAN Jews ?

So the Palestinian Jews have more land than the Palestinian Arabs

Did you also miss that Egypt refused to take back Gaza and Jordan refused to take back the west bank ?

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by cody599

 

So you choose to ignore the reply here

And the fact that other nations like Fat Saudi kings , don't have the right to decide for the lands of Palestinians .

You ignore the terror and massacre in Sbra and shatil and dayr Yasin

You justify that some Arab countries including puppets wanted to attack Israel , and Israel got mad and took all lands of Palestine ?

And regarding the reply I sent , you say US is bringing peace ?

Maybe we will have things to argue on the other side because you are clearly ignoring the truth , but I choose to leave you and the blood of the dead.

I don't choose to ignore anything

I could go tit for tat and list every atrocity visited on the civilian population of the Palestinian Jews

But that would be pointless.

Do I believe the current administration in Israel is correct in it's thinking. No that's one of the reasons I left when Ariel Sharon was voted into power again.

Do I believe that Israel has the right to exist ? Yes absolutely

Do I believe the Palestinians have a right to a homeland ? Again absolutely

Can they govern it with peace, intelligence and form international relations ? Not so far

If they had put as much energy and money into building Gaza's infrastructure when the keys were handed over as they do into trying to fight a pointless battle with Israel. Gaza would be a much better place to live.

Would be prosperous and at peace. But rather than try for peace and prosperity they choose to aggravate Israel time and time again.

reply to post by cody599

Can they govern it with peace, intelligence and form international relations ? Not so far

Which Palestine ?

The divided lands of west bank and Gaza strip ?

Which Palestinians ?

The ones who are refugees in other countries ?

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by cody599

 

Striking a country because of a say so, is a lot different then defending yourself. Anyone who lived through the US et al., lies about Iraq should know better. I was never more proud to be Canadian then when my PM said no to the Iraq war. Are you suggesting that we believe the "intel" that Israel released regarding Iran and start bombing them as well?
Maybe I misunderstood you, but, I expect better from you and you have never disappointed before.

I'm sorry to have disappointed you

Israeli intelligence is widely regarded as some of the best in the world, Eli Cohen HERE is a prime example of that. So if Israel struck a plant in Syria I'm sure there was something behind it.

No I'm not suggesting that we believe the "intel" that Israel released regarding Iran and start bombing them as well

This particular Israeli government is IMHO out of control and in need of a bloody nose. But that doesn't mean the population of Israel doesn't have the right to exist.

Thank for your reply and I hope this response was less disappointing for you.

Cody

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by cody599

 

Can they govern it with peace, intelligence and form international relations ? Not so far

Which Palestine ?

The divided lands of west bank and Gaza strip ?

Which Palestinians ?

The ones who are refugees in other countries ?

The divided lands of west bank and Gaza strip ?
Yes the ones they wanted to govern for themselves and ended up dividing.

Which Palestinians ?The ones who are refugees in other countries ?

Yes the ones that could return home and build a better land for themselves if they could only stop the in fighting, attacking Israel, and work for a common cause.

Cody

Originally posted by cody599

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by cody599

 

Can they govern it with peace, intelligence and form international relations ? Not so far

Which Palestine ?

The divided lands of west bank and Gaza strip ?

Which Palestinians ?

The ones who are refugees in other countries ?

The divided lands of west bank and Gaza strip ?
Yes the ones they wanted to govern for themselves and ended up dividing.

Which Palestinians ?The ones who are refugees in other countries ?

Yes the ones that could return home and build a better land for themselves if they could only stop the in fighting, attacking Israel, and work for a common cause.

Cody

My last reply was to see how you twist the truth, I think I know now.

BTW , you have lived in Israel and maybe done what govt told you to do. Will you turn back on your past and claim that Israel has been wrong ?

I doubt so. Because not every human has the courage and patient.

reply to post by mideast


I honestly don't think I twisted the truth.

Hamas party won the Palestinian legislative elections on 25 January 2006, and Ismail Haniyeh was nominated as Prime Minister,[4] establishing a Palestinian national unity government with Fatah, which effectively collapsed when Hamas and Fatah engaged into a violent conflict. After the takeover in Gaza by Hamas on 14 June 2007, Palestinian Authority Chairman Abbas dismissed the Hamas-led government and appointed Salam Fayad as Prime Minister.[5] Though the new government's authority is claimed to extend to all Palestinian territories, in effect it became limited to the West Bank, as Hamas hasn't recognized the move and continued to rule the Gaza Strip.[6] Both regimes – the Fatah government in Ramallah and the Hamas government in Gaza– regard themselves as the sole legitimate government of the Palestinian National Authority.

Source

Do I believe the current administration in Israel is correct in it's thinking. No that's one of the reasons I left when Ariel Sharon was voted into power again.

I did turn my back on Israel because it was at the that time and sadly still so on the wrong path. But I still hold hope for a peaceable Israel where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony. It works in Haifa so why not the rest of the land ?

Yes I did do what the government told me to do. I served in the IDF with pride, I was damn near court marshalled
for refusing a direct order to fire live rounds because there was too greater chance of hurting some kids that were in the area.

I'm glad I turned my back on Israel, but please understand that I still have kids that live there, and as a father wish only for their safety.

Cody

reply to post by cody599


I understand.

Thanks for the honesty.

I hope you get your kids safely.

I hope to see peace , and it is one main reason of my activities here.

I hop you understand that it is hurting me to see my brothers get killed in numbers in Iraq and Pakistan because the rich elites want them dead. One ignorant person is enough to kill thousands. And it is not fair to say there is little ignorant people in middle eastern countries.

peace.

"Israel launched an airstrike into Syria, apparently targeting a suspected weapons site, U.S. officials said Friday night."

Fantastic and now all we need is one of the many nuclear powers that are not under the influance of zionist bankers to taget a suspected weapons site in Israel that is not home to crude chemical weapons(As not used by Assad) but home to 400 nuclear weapons that are owned by the terrorist state of Israel and the world will be a much safer place.

Both sides can bomb for peace and tell half the world it had no other option in propaganda broadcasts to the sheep that lap it up without question.

FFS China come and save me because you can do no worse than the criminals running the show already this end.

What I find funny is when Syria is reported to do something like shoot down a Turkish plane or shell a school it is a false flag or fake but, if Isreal is reported to do something it is taken as gospel and nobody runs around screaming false flag. Interesting that.

reply to post by cody599


No, I did not Miss the term PALESTIENIAN JEW, LIKE RUSSIAN JEW, AMERICAN JEW, how about ignoring the prefix and focusing on the issues. Zionism.

The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. Has come to include the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel.

Zionism avocated, from inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left and right, religious and secular - joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained.

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by cody599

 

I understand.

Thanks for the honesty.

I hope you get your kids safely.

I hope to see peace , and it is one main reason of my activities here.

I hop you understand that it is hurting me to see my brothers get killed in numbers in Iraq and Pakistan because the rich elites want them dead. One ignorant person is enough to kill thousands. And it is not fair to say there is little ignorant people in middle eastern countries.

peace.

Thanks for that

Like your good self I would like to see peace break out, I doubt it will happen in our lifetime, but as long as there are people like us willing to talk intelligently and agree to disagree with honour then there is hope.

I understand your hurt and no doubt frustration at seeing your brothers getting killed. I was raised a Christian and taught that life is sacred and should not be taken unless there is no other choice, you are correct it takes but one ignorant person to kill thousands, may your God guide your brothers to wisdom and peace.

Cody

reply to post by MrSpad


Here let me connect the dots here for you that you cant seem to string together.

The biggest Conspiracy, Globally, is the Zionist/NWO agenda.

The people we are trying to expose, the ones creating this problem, support Israel.

Thus, any event that the corrupted (US, Great Britain, Israel, etc) are involved in, whether a war, False Flag event, Economy, Politics, we here try to examine to see if their are holes in their story.

We have ample evidence to support such atrocities across the globe. That these Zionist elite have become absurdly wealthy, while using destructive forces and fear tactics so that the people feel they need to be dependant on the Gov't to protect them, from the very people trying to control them.

It is the ultimate definition of what can be considered a "mind F@*!" Because this has been going on for centuries, dumbing down the public, having them trust authority, so that if their agenda becomes exposed, it would appear improbable to the masses.

A vast global conspiracy, involving Governments, Monarchs, The Vatican, Bankers, It is a history mind f@*! because they have controlled history since it was written and by whom?

reply to post by mideast


Muslims believe that scribes corrupted the original reading from Ishmael to Isaac.

This idea stems from the islamic misunderstanding of the phrase "only son", it becomes necessary to explain what this phrase exactly means in relation to Isaac. A careful reading of the Holy Bible shows that the phrase is used to affirm Isaac's unique status, a status based on the following:

Isaac was the only promised child of Abraham, a fact which the Quran agrees with (cf. Genesis 17:15-21; Surah 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30). Ishmael was never a promised child.

Isaac was conceived miraculously to a barren mother and a very aged father, with the Quran likewise agreeing (cf. Genesis 17:15-17, 18:9-15, 21:1-7; Galatians 4:28-29; Surah 11:69-73, 51:24-30).
Ishmael was conceived normally without the need of any miraculous intervention.

God promised that it would be Isaac's descendants who would inherit the land given to Abraham. (Genesis 13:14-18, 15:18-21, 28:13-14). Ishmael had no part in the inheritance and promise given to Isaac through Abraham.
It is for these reasons that Isaac is called Abraham's only son since God himself reckoned him as the child of promise and blessings, an honor never bestowed upon Ishmael.

Even more amazing is the fact that the Quran never mentions the name of the sacrificial child; amazing indeed considering how overzealous some Muslims have been in their attempts to prove that Ishmael, not Isaac, was that son.

So with that information Mideast how can you actually believe that ismail was the chosen son? Its in the qu ran and bible you can look them both up. Ishmails decendants are wrong if thats the case. I do not mean no harm but evidence points to the direction that ishmails decendants were wrong.

Now do not take offense to what I am about to say here.
Although Hagar was gifted to Abraham it does not change the fact that he was promised a child FROM HIS WIFE AND NOT HAGAR.
Usually a man having a child out of wedlock to another woman is called a NON legitimate child.

Still Abraham was not patient enough and had a kid with someone who was not his wife.

HE was promised to have the blessed child by his WIFE LITERALLY not some servant woman.

That is what I was getting at. So WHY with that evidence is Ismail considered special?