Any Dr. Dolittles out there?

So, I'm an uncle buddha now. I went to visit the bro, the sis-in-law, and the niece the other day. Now, I've always felt like I had an uncanny sensitivity to everything and everyone around me. I tend to pick up on peoples' moods and sympathetically feel the mood right along with them. Children and pets tend to implicitly like me; they trust, accept, and choose to be near me without any encouragement.

So my bro has 2 dogs in the household. They're both curious and excited about the new baby; especially the female. But they're not the best-trained dogs in the world, so the parents are still seeing how the dogs react before letting them get all that close. They mostly just get close enough to sniff and check out the baby.

I was holding my day-old niece while the female lab comes up close and I kind of nudge her away with my foot. (I'm personally afraid of the dog trying to be motherly and pick up the baby.) So, my bro and sis chastise the dog and send her to lie down on her bed across the room. Here's where my 'sensitivity' comes into play.

I was watching the dog lie down. And I could've sworn I saw this shadow around her face. It just looked like a feeling of dread wash over her. I could see in her eyes she was upset. I mean, dogs don't really have facial expressions, but it really seemed like she was sulking. And then I got this inkling like she was thinking, "Why can't I? Why can't I have a child?"

No, I don't hear voices in my head, but good guess! But I do sometimes get this intuitive 'flash' of feelings and words.

Now, I know it's natural for humans to anthropomorphize everything! I'm not a pet owner and have never been. I like animals, but pets just aren't my thing. In fact, I'm not even a very big fan of dogs (I have my reasons.) I'm just saying, I'm not around pets all that much.

However, I would love to hear from pet owners who maybe have empathized with their pets in this way, or perhaps have intuitively understood their thoughts and feelings (by means other than visual cues and outward behaviors etc.)

Has anyone else ever had this "flash of clarity" with their pets? Furthermore, could this flash be evidence of a soul trying to communicate?...or is this just us assigning human qualities to non-human beings?



Mods, this was a tough one to categorize. Relocate thread if you have a better forum for it.

reply to post by NarcolepticBuddha


I believe the dog sense more of a abandonment rather than a urge to have a offspring of itself.

Actually how would the dog know about the human Offspring? it might thing its another pet or food or something like it that the owners are showing love to it.

My mom used to tell me that when my younger sister was born, i was 3 yrs old. That soon as i saw my younger sister being held by my mom, i started putting space between me and my mom and instead grew close to my father.

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
Any Dr. Dolittles out there?

Me! Me! Me!

Or, I like to think I am. I once had a situation with two cats. One of them, Zoie, started disallowing the other cat into one of the rooms. Soon, she included another room and another until the other cat was prohibited from nearly every room in the house! I thought it was such a strange behavior, I decided to "ask" Zoie why she was doing this and what she wanted.

I sat in a chair with her in front of me on the floor and asked her, "What do you want"? After several moments of staring, I "heard" the words, "a way to go up high"... I was SO sure she was communicating with me somehow. I talked with my husband about it and we decided to give her what she wanted. We built platforms and walkways in the living room (vaulted ceilings) so she could jump up and be the queen of all she surveyed.

She never prohibited the other cat from entering a room again. Ever.

An aside... I think animals definitely have facial expressions. Especially dogs.

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
I was watching the dog lie down. And I could've sworn I saw this shadow around her face. It just looked like a feeling of dread wash over her. I could see in her eyes she was upset. I mean, dogs don't really have facial expressions, but it really seemed like she was sulking. And then I got this inkling like she was thinking, "Why can't I? Why can't I have a child?"

No, I don't hear voices in my head, but good guess!

But I do sometimes get this intuitive 'flash' of feelings and words.

edit on 26-4-2013 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)

Dogs most certainly do have facial expressions!

You are good at reading them. But I think it was more not "why can't I play with it or visit it" than "why can't I have the child". Might also be a bit of jealousy from what they view as a rival pack member. But more likely friendly to a new member of the pack.

I talk to my dog all the time and really freak people out by asking him questions and then they watch his responses. Like asking where a certain person is and he will look directly at them, or to show me who he loves and then he will put his head in the lap of person.

I used to have a cat, birds, a rat, several hermit crabs all which had quirks and personalities. Now I am just down to a fish (who is a long lived goldfish 5 years now...) and a dog. The rest have died of old age except the crabs which gave to a friend who really wanted them.

I am a Doolittle if you will, I do not anthropomorphize animals but I do believe you can communicate with them. They have feelings and intelligence perhaps not like you or me but they do!

Dogs have great facial expressions and can be easy to read for some folks.

Guilt / shame can bring out the best expressions.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Oh what a beautiful story! Thanks for sharing. This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. And yes, it happened to me the same way. Just looked into the dog's eyes for a few moments and then got this impression that she really was frustrated about not having a child of her own, and not being allowed too close to the baby just yet.

According to my bro and sis-in-law, the dog in question is already very protective of the baby, and seems to be vigilant.

reply to post by NarcolepticBuddha


I have worked with both dogs and horses a lot. I have communication with them that I choose not to share with others much, that occurs on a level I cannot explain well, because it is not subject to time and space.

But there is still the very physical communication animals do, that anyone can instinctively read. Though I do not mean anthropomorphism- for animals are not humans..... but humans ARE animals. We have the same instincts (most espeicaly the social ones) and empathy is entirely possible.

In my humble opinion, only based on what you describe and what I know of dogs, I doubt she was bummed because she wants a child (human or otherwise).

But in instinctual social structures for dogs, she would be allowed to get close to, sniff, lick, and eventually take part in raising the young. Puppies belong to the pack, and even babysitting happens when the mother goes to hunt with the others.

In pushing her away, the message is that she is losing her place in her pack. This is a "bad thing" for dogs. It touches their deepest survival instincts.

It is sometimes more dangerous for the child, to do this too much, it could put them in a state of competition for membership (in her mind) . But probably not until the child is a bit bigger. On the other hand, the dog needs to be taught that it's position is safe, it is still a member, but that the child is higher on the ladder of hierarchy- no matter WHAT it does to the dog, she has no right to bite or reprimand.

It is a delicate balance. It means an ongoing communication with the dog.

-But I have nevr heard of a dog trying to pick up a human baby as they do puppies! I have seen some dogs be extremely maternal and good care takers with human babies too! I would not worry!

Originally posted by abeverage
Dogs most certainly do have facial expressions!

Thanks for correcting me. I am not around pets all that much, so I probably have not become attuned to their facial expressions. I just had a hard time imagining a dog smile or frown with that long snout. But I guess they have other ways of expressing themselves.

Originally posted by Bluesma
In pushing her away, the message is that she is losing her place in her pack. This is a "bad thing" for dogs. It touches their deepest survival instincts.

Thanks for your insight and advice. I will pass it along. It's interesting that all posters so far have rebuked the idea of the dog wanting to have a child. I have no choice but to change my initial impression and agree with you guys and gals.

-But I have nevr heard of a dog trying to pick up a human baby as they do puppies! I have seen some dogs be extremely maternal and good care takers with human babies too! I would not worry!

Unfortunately, I have. Needless to say, it didn't end well.

Awe congrats NB on becoming an uncle!!


I have two pets a cat and a dog. My cat I can read her based on her meows. She has a distinct one for almost everything she wants. It took me a while to pick up on them but I know what she wants based on her meow!

Now my dog, Rosco, he is such a sweetie and hot mess at times. He has these looks that I know all too well! He has his sad look and he actually smiles when he is happy. It is so cute!! He also knows I am here to help him. He has allergies to almost everything and it has been frustrating at times moreso for him I would imagine. It took me a while to pick up on his looks as well. Just about 20mins ago he started scratching his face and he cries when he does that. All i have to do is call him and he comes right into my lap because he knows i can sooth his itches. I take a wet cloth and put it on his face and just rub slightly. If i let him scratch he becomes raw and bloody and it makes me so sad when he cries like that and being hormonal it literally makes me cry!!

I feel he knows I am here to take care of him and help him. We talk in a sense but it's with looks and how he acts. My fiancee has made comments on how Rosco comes to me when he is in need. Rosco knows I'm his mom and when he has an itch he can't get or an itch that is bothering he come to me because he knows I'll soothe it. After I take the wet cloth to his face he just gives me tons of kisses. I take it as a thank you!! He even gives hugs!! I have never in my life had an animal like him. He is just the sweetest dog I have ever met or had. I honestly don't think he has ever been treated this way before. It was rough in the beginning with him but now we are the best of friends. He is my furry boy!! He has a lot of allergy problems and I think that is why he ended up in various shelters, nobody could deal with it. ALl it really takes is some extra TLC and patience! He is spoiled and will always be! I can't wait for him to meet my little guy when he comes! Rosco is pretty young so our little one will have a friend from birth! I think he will do just fine with the baby. He is very good around kids even little ones. He just wants to kiss everyone! He is also quite submissive and when you do anything to him he literally falls over and plays dead. That is his defense mechanism when he feels threatened. It is quite funny to witness at times I tell ya!

I worked with dogs for about a year as a groomer/bather. I could definitely pick up on their emotions and some made me want to cry. The ones that had bad fleas or skin problems made me sad. It was like I could feel their sadness and discomfort and it was like they knew I was trying to help them feel better. It's hard to explain but I would get this overwhelming feeling from some of them. It was like they were saying thank you.

I spend a LOT of time with my pack of four dogs. Knowing about dog communication as I do, I wanted to to an interesting experiment - I decided one day to say NOTHING at all to the dogs. I communicated with them with my hands, facial expressions and body movements, like they do, and I was pleased to find that they didn't appear to notice at all. We went thorough our entire day without one word from me and without any misunderstanding. And that includes many activities. They did everything I "asked". It was really cool. Dogs are very smart and they communicate with each other in very subtle ways - eye flicks, expressions and small movements that most people would never notice.

reply to post by Cyprex


HAHA that is hilarious!

My dog SOOO has a guilty look!!

I came home recently and it reeked of poo. I was like wth!! The door was open to his bathroom area but the house stunk. He immediately got the guilty look on his face. He kind of slowly wags his tail, sinks his head and his eyes get HUGE! I looked at him and said "did you poo in the house" and he just sat there with his look! He then got up and hid under the table which is an instant admission of guilt! lol I went to my bathroom and he sure enough pooed on the rug.

Now I couldnt' get mad at him because the door was open to where his bathroom pad is BUT the cat who loves to bully him was blocking the door. She loves to do this to keep him off the porch! He will absolutely not go near her or go past her. I then knew why he went in the bathroom. She will block him in multiple places in the house and he will sit there til she moves or I come in the room to "rescue" him.

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha

Originally posted by abeverage
Dogs most certainly do have facial expressions!

Thanks for correcting me. I am not around pets all that much, so I probably have not become attuned to their facial expressions. I just had a hard time imagining a dog smile or frown with that long snout. But I guess they have other ways of expressing themselves.

No worries. I have owned dogs all my life it was no surprise to me they have expressions. The eyes/eyebrows are the area that gives the most clues (to me).

I am actually pretty good at telling a fake smile with humans too, because they eyes give it away and it is hard to fake the expression in the eye shapes...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
Any Dr. Dolittles out there?

Me! Me! Me!

Or, I like to think I am.

I once had a situation with two cats. One of them, Zoie, started disallowing the other cat into one of the rooms. Soon, she included another room and another until the other cat was prohibited from nearly every room in the house! I thought it was such a strange behavior, I decided to "ask" Zoie why she was doing this and what she wanted.

I sat in a chair with her in front of me on the floor and asked her, "What do you want"? After several moments of staring, I "heard" the words, "a way to go up high"... I was SO sure she was communicating with me somehow. I talked with my husband about it and we decided to give her what she wanted. We built platforms and walkways in the living room (vaulted ceilings) so she could jump up and be the queen of all she surveyed.

She never prohibited the other cat from entering a room again. Ever.

An aside... I think animals definitely have facial expressions. Especially dogs.

Funny!

Awwww I had a Cat named Zoe (actually it was my then girlfriends who got her on a farm) you made me miss her she was almost 17 when she passed. I was allergic, but I suffered through it because I came to love her! I would get horrible rashes and not be able to breathe so we would give her baths which she of course LOVED!

I would pet her with my foot to avoid getting too sneezing and congested. Because of this she had a pretty odd foot fetish to anyone...and would avoid almost being petted normally! LOL

Strange and darkly funny story I would tell about her was...

People would notice she looked kind of odd but often could not place what it was unless she walked. She was 3-legged...People would say poor kitty! I would say poor kitty? She gets around fine and is a holy terror when she was in a bad mood!

How did it happen? They'd ask.

I ran her over...I would say dryly and with a straight face. To which I would get looks of

I then say IT WAS A COMPLETE ACCIDENT!

Of course! What do you think I am a monster? Shame on you!

And I then tell them when she was a baby kitten she would hide under my car. I would always check before I went to work but one morning after checking she ran back under! I Screamed to my then girlfriend to hold her while I wrapped her in a towel and sped off to the Animal Emergency care!

They bandaged the leg, but then a week later....it started to smell awful! and she was favoring it too much!
we took her back into the vet and $500 later they took the leg. I barely had been dating my future wife and barely knew the cat but after being so horrible to her and spending what was then a HUGE amount of money I grew to love her very much despite my allergies...

She was an amazing animal and majestic in a sense that cats are she died peacefully last year after 17 years (long for a cat, even longer given her impediment).

I miss her...

reply to post by NarcolepticBuddha

If you saw a ’shadow’ pass over the dogs features - I’d pay attention to that - which seems you did or you wouldn‘t have started the thread. Kudos to you.

The female‘s behavior? I can‘t tell you what she's thinking, no one can but what we do know is dogs are so much more perceptive than we ever will be.

If I were the parents of that child? I’d have a baby motion monitor - make sure the baby’s breathing correctly at night. The ol’ ounce of prevention worth a pound a cure isn’t a cliche for nothing.

Can you ask the parents if they’ve allowed the female dog to give the baby a once over yet? A head to toe inspection? Of course not without supervision.

peace

reply to post by silo13


Yes, the shadowy cloud is probably the most vexing part of this--or maybe I'm just overdue for an ophthalmology exam.

They do let the dog get close enough to sniff and check it out, but not really close enough for licking and contact just yet. I'm not sure what other way a dog could give the baby a "once-over." What would the indications be of something being wrong?

I do believe in the perceptive and intuitive abilities of animals. I usually trust my intuition as well. It has rarely led me wrong.

reply to post by abeverage


I agree the eyes don't lie.
Truly they are the windows to the soul.

PLPL

The very first thing they pick up on is your body language and next they pick up on your emotional state. Humans generate a cacophany of smells which dogs use to figure out our mood and intentions. Cats I believe are more adept at reading visual cues.
Facial expressions on dogs can be pretty subtle but you obviously had no difficultly picking up on the Lab's disappointment of being shooed away. Thinking the dog was wondering "why can't I have a child?" was definitely projecting human thoughts though. We all do that to some degree as it's part and parcel of our process of rationalizing behaviors.
With animals I've found it's best to note their mood and allow time and further behaviors to sort out the why's and wherefores. Their desires don't always follow .any human rationale
I'm always interested in threads like this and reading what others have learned.

Congrats on being an uncle!
1 tip on small kids: never underestimate their capacity for learning. Spend time with her, that is the most precious gift any of us can give. You sound like the kind of guy that's going to be someone's favorite uncle.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


We got a puppy last year and for every verbal command we've worked up a hand gesture to go with it. .
I really love the reactions of others when they see how well our pup responds without saying a word.
I'm equally astounded by those who can't seem to teach their dog anything but the dog seems to be teaching the owners how to behave!
Why do people get animals if they're not going to spend any time with them? I swear it really ticks me off when people get a dog as a fashion accessory or any other kind of statement. It's no wonder so many dogs are misbehaved and tear up the house.
Btw: are all your dogs German Shepherds?