The windows of shop at Boston Bomb site 1.. Blast defies physics !!

Originally posted by captiva
If that was the case the glass would be inside the shop...its not..

respects

I know nothing about explosions, but as a layman, the photo is interesting. Only one side of the building's glass front broke, interesting that both sides didn't break - no real damage to the neighboring building either. It would appear the lower half fell in, the upper half fell out. What really strikes me is the lack of damage, it would appear that if they just replaced the glass and swept up, the place would look normal, and yet, on the other side of the bomb blast was mayhem. Again, I know nothing about bombs, but the fire-crakers I have set off all blew up evenly, damage on all sides, yet this all seems to go forward with enough force to blow off someone legs but not enough force to really damage the building right behind. Again, just looking at the photos as a layman.

reply to post by captiva


What if the glass you see on the ground is from the ABOVE sections of glass destroyed by the concussion wave?

I see glass inside.

i would REALLY like to see a picture of anything that has exploded and the debris is at the center of the blast area and NOT scattered all over the place

really I would

the vacumn is created AFTER the out going blast wave has done the damage

but ill wait for an example

and thats a really tiny amount of glass inside compared to the size of the window

Angels were onsite. but who has the ability to know what could have been other than them. Some things can only be lessened and not stopped. It does not make the events any less heart breaking.

Originally posted by captiva
If that was the case the glass would be inside the shop...its not..

respects

The glass is inside the shop on the right. On the left it looks like it blew out the first pane of glass, but not the second inner pane of glass. This could be attributed to an inconsistent blast (i.e., explosive pressure was not consistent from all angles) or it could have been absorbed by obstructions in the way (i.e., people).

reply to post by captiva


Soooo, you're disagreeing with physics then?

Originally posted by captiva
The debate on whether the glass should be inside the shop or by some miracle all be outside is mute. The fact is this explosion should have blown the window in and in doing so, even with creating a vacuum after the initial blast, there should have been way more glass on the shop floor.


That window was punched out and not by the explosion, that we can see happens on the side-walk.

respects

Actually I think you mean the point is moot. If it were mute it would be a silent point and none of us would be posting disagreeing with your OP. From what I can see, the blast did indeed blow in the right window since there are fragments of glass on the inside floor of the storefront. Keep in mind this photo was taken from a distance. It's kind of hard to see how much debris from the glass is inside the store (depending on the size of the shards).

As for the left window it blew in the outer pane but didn't seem to affect the inner pane. Then again we are yards away so we can't see if it actually compromised the structural integrity of the glass. If it didn't that's the nature of IEDs. Check your other thread and see what NavyDoc has to say about IEDs. He seems to have seen the effects of them firsthand and you'd be wise to listen to what he says instead of making baseless assumptions based on movie and TV explosions.

Originally posted by captiva
I believe this is one of the most important photographs published of the Boston attack. Captured a couple of metres from the point of blast...so why has the glass not been blown in?...or did the supposed injured smash them from the inside to get to their positions.

Respects

Really? Ok...in the pic you posted there are obviously 2 panes of glass. In the follow up pics you can see that when the bomb went off and the blast took out both panes on one side it actually has glass INSIDE the building but on the side where it only took out 1 pane the glass fell OUTSIDE the building.

So are you suggesting they had a bomb in between the panes of glass?

Really you are stretching and the fact you are trying to make people believe there was no bomb is utterly ridiculous. You say it defies physics....then please post your credentials with your degree in physics and whatever evidence you have gathered over your years of experience in forensic analysis and how this bomb was never there and this "not bomb" defied physics.

If there was no bomb then how could it defy physics.....your argument makes no sense. Did someone inside the shop break out the windows with a hammer and somehow avoid breaking the INSIDE pane?

Ridiculous theory....

So a bomb 2-3 feet away from a window is going to cause 80% of the glass to fall out toward the blast?

reply to post by okiecowboy


Were you present at the bombing? Do you know the direction of the blast? From what I can tell in the videos the blast was directed outward from the buildings, towards the street. If that's the case then there was possibly enough concussive force to shatter the glass, blowing some inward but causing most of it to shatter and fall mostly straight down. Not to mention the windows above the ground floor are also shattered which probably accounts for most of the glass on the sidewalk. This is purely supposition since I was not there.

Originally posted by darknull
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

you constantly down what anyone has to say dont you? Ive seen it through alot of threads its a little annoying.

Darn those pesky facts! Coming to rain on your fantasy!

What you are annoyed about is someone daring to challenge you with actual science, real evidence, something concrete and not "I got a feeling".

There is plenty of data to show that a vacuum is the most plausible answer. If not, what is the alternative?

reply to post by Cabalis

If you go back and look at my post on the other page you can see a link I posted to a still photo of the very first moments of the blast...then look at the photo that was posted above.

Notice the guy in the green bomb suit....notice the black charred looking area behind him ..thats about where I would place the bomb..

Now I agree most of the blast went up...and that makes sense if the pressure cooker was sitting top up..
Because the top is going to fail first....and that would explain the lid being found where it was.

Now add in projectiles...bomb was reported to bee filled with ball bearings, nails etc...if so how did that second pane survive?

If the overpressure from the blast didn't get the windows blown in and the projectiles didn't bust that pane..

What does that leave us with?

Now go back to all the photos of where the injuries were.. several of the worst one we have seen were up close to
The fence/road...now the bomb was strong enough to remove limbs etc. several feet away right? Now go back and look around that spot i pointed out where I "think" the bomb was...see any major damage close? I don't

I THINK this was a shaped charge made to look like something else..that would explain the glass and the injuries.

And just for the record I am a 17 year law enforcement vet, military vet, basic EMT, vol. Firefighter..so that qualifies me to play armchair detective as well as anyone else

Originally posted by captiva

Originally posted by Covertblack

Blast wind: At the explosion site, a vacuum is created by the rapid outward movement of the blast. This vacuum will almost immediately refill itself with the surrounding atmosphere. This creates a very strong pull on any nearby person or structural surface after the initial push effect of the blast has been delivered. As this void is refilled, it creates a high-intensity wind that causes fragmented objects, glass and debris to be drawn back in toward the source of the explosion.

www.howstuffworks.com...

The intital blast would have pushed the glass in a blast dosnt attract, I disagree totally with the premise that a blast sucks glass in.

Respects

Then it is you who is denying physics.

Not the bomb defying it.

reply to post by LogicGrind

keep in mind this vacum only happens AFTER the blast wave pushes everything out..

Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by Cabalis

 

If you go back and look at my post on the other page you can see a link I posted to a still photo of the very first moments of the blast...then look at the photo that was posted above.

Notice the guy in the green bomb suit....notice the black charred looking area behind him ..thats about where I would place the bomb..

Now I agree most of the blast went up...and that makes sense if the pressure cooker was sitting top up..
Because the top is going to fail first....and that would explain the lid being found where it was.

Now add in projectiles...bomb was reported to bee filled with ball bearings, nails etc...if so how did that second pane survive?

If the overpressure from the blast didn't get the windows blown in and the projectiles didn't bust that pane..

What does that leave us with?

Now go back to all the photos of where the injuries were.. several of the worst one we have seen were up close to
The fence/road...now the bomb was strong enough to remove limbs etc. several feet away right? Now go back and look around that spot i pointed out where I "think" the bomb was...see any major damage close? I don't

I THINK this was a shaped charge made to look like something else..that would explain the glass and the injuries.

And just for the record I am a 17 year law enforcement vet, military vet, basic EMT, vol. Firefighter..so that qualifies me to play armchair detective as well as anyone else

Despite your alleged qualifications, the fact remains that you and no one else positing these theories were there in person. Perhaps there was a crowd of people between the blast and the left window that absorbed the brunt of the explosion and shrapnel so that only a little got through to break the first pane, but not the second. For every valid point you all make, we can make valid counterpoints.

reply to post by Cabalis


True enough..but if we didn't do this, there would be no need for this site at all...since that is what ATS is correct?

Could be the glass from above.After all what are the police in the first photo looking UP at?

This blast does not defy physics.

Your understanding of physics defies you.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

Originally posted by captiva
I believe this is one of the most important photographs published of the Boston attack. Captured a couple of metres from the point of blast...so why has the glass not been blown in?...or did the supposed injured smash them from the inside to get to their positions.

Respects

Really? Ok...in the pic you posted there are obviously 2 panes of glass. In the follow up pics you can see that when the bomb went off and the blast took out both panes on one side it actually has glass INSIDE the building but on the side where it only took out 1 pane the glass fell OUTSIDE the building.

So are you suggesting they had a bomb in between the panes of glass?

Really you are stretching and the fact you are trying to make people believe there was no bomb is utterly ridiculous. You say it defies physics....then please post your credentials with your degree in physics and whatever evidence you have gathered over your years of experience in forensic analysis and how this bomb was never there and this "not bomb" defied physics.

If there was no bomb then how could it defy physics.....your argument makes no sense. Did someone inside the shop break out the windows with a hammer and somehow avoid breaking the INSIDE pane?

Ridiculous theory....

I wondered about this too, and rabbited on about it in a number of posts elsewhere, until I realised that it was double-glazing. That is it in a nutshell they are toughened glass doubleglazed panels. The left window, (as you view) panel on the inside of the building stayed intact for that window, the outer glass bounced of it and across the pavement. The right side wndows look like both broke and most of the glass likely went inside, while the glass seen outside is probably from above as well. A good proportion of the blast is likely to have gone straight up, and you can see that large chunks do fly up in one of the videos. The bomb was devastating on people, but too small to have much of a suction effect, or rather a vacuum effect, or damage to the buildings.

Don't forget most commercial properties will use high pressure air conditioning that pushes air out the door when people enter the store to control dust and dirt. Most likely most of this window stayed in tact from the blast wave but the ball bearings and other small objects caused the tempered glass to shatter. The inside air pressure then pushed it out on the ground. The second story bay window just above those windows have small round holes in them. Those are not tempered glass so the BB's made a small hole like that of a BB gun.