Lower Heart Rate Better Indicator Of Criminal Behavior Than Smoking Is Of Lung Cancer

Lower Heart Rate Better Indicator Of Criminal Behavior Than Smoking Is Of Lung Cancer

www.newscientist.com

SUPPOSE you had to predict which kids in a roomful of 3-year-olds at your local preschool were likely to grow up to be violent criminals. How would you decide?

Most of us would probably round up the usual sociological suspects, and check whether a child comes from a broken or abusive home, is part of a family living below the poverty line, or has a parent who is a convicted criminal. But there's an easier way, says Adrian Raine: just measure their resting heart rate. His research shows that low

(visit the link for the full news article)

A Few things
MODS I changed the title because I found this one to be more pertinant to why I posted it in BAN, you can change it if you wish but I thought that this one was more suitable for the topic at hand.

Anyhow, some may disagree and just consider this productive psychology within criminology but what he says sounds scary to me.

First and foremost I am a programmer, I started programming in a very early age when my brother in law taught me DOS, since then I was interested in programming and scripting.
Later in life I got interested in alternative news, I think it was only in 2007 since I was interested in it mainly because of Ron Paul to be honest, I just felt finally someone makes sense.

A Programming backround and interesting in alternative news.
Those two together got me interested in following things going on in the IT industry, mostly web.

Like companies working on code that could categorize what type of individual you are based on just 6 clicks you do on a given website where you are being monitored.

Computer algorithms working on twitter to measure people's reluctance to take vaccines.

Code written so that software could categorize your level of intelligence based on what you "LIKE" on facebook.
And if you liked curly fries you had a high IQ, yes curly fries.

This always worried me because of stupid chains of thought and someone who thinks he's too smart would use those chains of monitored thought and then generalize and make assumptions about them, then immediately categorize them.

Some people say there's no such thing as bad data.
I completely disagree.

There definately is something called bad data and too much data.

And just like in this article, low resting HR means you may be a criminal eventually AND to top it off it's based on a scenario where you are to chose who would be a criminal in a classroom full of 3 YEAR OLDSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

I, myself, have a low resting heart rate and I am the nicest guy in the world.
I'm so non-violent that I am vegetarian.

Sure i've been in fights growing up, a few bar fights, but I was never the instigator, was always more like the mediator.

Never stole anything, and never wished anyone would be harmed.

Reading this article sent chills down my spine.

We are becoming a society where "experts" generalize!
What a horrific picture of the future this paints!!!

www.newscientist.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Athletes, especially long distance runners, have a lower resting heart beat also.....does that mean that runners are more apt to be criminals? I dont think so. What it may mean tho is that criminals may more easily beat a lie detector.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


What about people like Bjorn Borg? He was once measured as having a resting heart rate of 38bpm, and aside from being a straight up badass on the tennis court, he doesnt strike me as a criminally inclined sort of a fellow.

Just like the Nazi's to categorize and judge in useless manners. The number one predictor of criminal behavior, the real dangerous fascist kind, that affects many, not the occasional fall out from poverty, is whether they work for the public in any capacity, the higher their income and if they were born to wealthy families.

Psychology is making a bid to be king.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Important - highlights the limitations of our Western focus on "cause and effect." Fact is, life is "multi-factorial" - no single cause can explain most effects we see around us. Life is just waaaay more complicated. Multiple "factors" act together to create the 'whole' and even the slightest deviation [quantity, quality, timing] of any given component/factor can radically alter the end 'product' of one compared to another. Kinda like what we've learned about predicting weather except even more bewildering.


S&F&

These studies always make me laugh. What if it were actually possible to determine a person's future behavior through scientific testing? Then what? What would it accomplish? You can't just segregate people from society from a young age based on the fact that they have the "potential" to be a criminal. "Well Mrs. Walker, we tested little Billy's heart and it seems that we have a future criminal here. We're going to have to keep him segregated from society by placing him in this institution..."

Personally I think that environment determines criminal behavior anyways. A dysfunctional childhood and/or poverty are probably the main factors. Sometimes it isn't even that though, sometimes it's just immaturity and lack of judgement. I had a few run-ins with cops from when I was around 14-19, for doing things that I thought was fun/funny at the time, but I grew out of it. Neither of my parents have ever been in trouble with the law, nor has my sister, so I'm not inclined to believe that it's necessarily genetic either. Sometimes people just do whatever the hell they want even if they don't come from a bad family. It seems that some scientists are really pushing this 'nobody has free will' idea really hard these days.

This article creeps the hell out of me, too. Low resting heart rate here, my autonomic nervous system is a mess and, omg, had the gall to grow up in an abusive home so there's the typical attribution to boot. Thing is, my worst crimes are jaywalking and speeding and suffer a terrible allergy to violence. I actually shut down in a near catatonia when exposed to real-life violence. So much for me being a cold-blooded violent criminal.

And using Ted Kaczynski as an example. Just wow. Way to point the finger at a pre-existing at birth phenomena rather than the more obvious probability that some professionals in the field of psychology irrevocably warped the man. No, wasn't their fault. Kaczynski just has a low heart rate!

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Athletes, especially long distance runners, have a lower resting heart beat also.....does that mean that runners are more apt to be criminals?

Maybe not but it does meant hey are more likely to outrun the cops.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Important - highlights the limitations of our Western focus on "cause and effect." Fact is, life is "multi-factorial" - no single cause can explain most effects we see around us. Life is just waaaay more complicated. Multiple "factors" act together to create the 'whole' and even the slightest deviation [quantity, quality, timing] of any given component/factor can radically alter the end 'product' of one compared to another. Kinda like what we've learned about predicting weather except even more bewildering.


S&F&

I agree with soficrow on this one. Is it not enough that we don't have to think about how to truly cook a meal (god forbid we couldn't turn on a stove or press 1:00 on the microwave), how to spell, or would need to get up off our butts to change the channel. Now people are trying to make a shortcut to this too?

I read a post in here today of someone taking a test to see if they are worthy to work at Hardee's flipping burgers. This is another example (i have hundreds), that tells me people don't want to think anymore or want everything to be in one step. The lady said manager wanted to hire her but...the test results. Tests are one tiny piece of the puzzle. Human decision making needs to stay on the table (why are we using our brains to make the brain obsolete)?

I have a slow heart rate and low blood pressure. I am a good person. Some whacko trying to make a 1-1 association and never will and will lose credibility in trying to do so. Very hard to believe this is coming from a true mental health professional unless a dissertation needs to be done in quick hurry and they wanted an easy rejection of the hypotheses. Having said that, serial killers have been reported to have low heart rates when doing their trade. This would be the mind acting on the body (it relaxes them to kill and eat people as an example). It has zero to do with their actual heart beats per minute for crying out loud.

Well I am an avid exerciser so my hart rate resting is between 55 and 60, so that makes me a chrimial? I have to give it to the morons doing this type of scientific research wasting tax payers money.

But what can I say, tagging the children as young as you can so they do not be allowed to buy guns later on in life.

Because remember very soon moronic "indicators" created by morons scientist will be as good as having a record.

What a future for our children in this country.

Strange.

I've done hte heart monitor and my sitting heart rate (after maybe 10 minutes) is in the 50's. If I relax and breath it goes into the 40's. Am I a criminal? Nope.

Just test now. 131/79/57. My systolic is kind of up there, but my heart rate is 57.

This is just society trying to control. It's fear too. And desire for conformity.

This is bull#. To quantify this post- I'm a cardiology technologist. I have studied cardiology extensively and work in an acute care setting. A person's heart rate can fluctuate through your whole life. Active people have lower heart rates because the heart is a muscle, and like all muscles when it is put under stress it gets stronger to compensate for said stress. In the case of the heart, stronger muscle means more forceful contractions to pump the blood through your body. The heart rate slows down because it can now pump more blood with fewer beats than it could before.

People who are sedentary usually have a high heart rate because the myocardium (muscle that makes up the heart) is weaker, so the heart has to beat more times per minute to pump an adequate blood supply to the body. This is why when you exercise your heart speeds up. The muscles in your body need more oxygen so the heart must pump faster to keep up with the demand.

Of course there are several other conditions/factors that can cause you to have either a fast or slow heart rate including 2nd or 3rd degree heart block (the latter resting in a pacemaker), cardiomyopathy, atrial fibrillation, atrial flutter, sick sinus syndrome, etc.

Basing whether or not someone is more or less likely to be a criminal on their resting heart rate is as nonsensical as saying people 5'5 or less will become criminals.

I want to add additional information from the link.

Here, specifically, he address that low heart rate does not mean you'll commit crime:

.........
Biology is not destiny, however, and Raine is careful to note that none of these physical differences guarantees a life of crime. Raine himself is a case in point: his resting heart rate is 48 beats per minute, and his brain scans are more similar to those of many murderers than of normal people. Without doubt, environmental factors also play a role in tipping someone towards crime. Indeed, it often takes both bad biology and bad surroundings to induce criminal behaviour.

Even so, it seems clear that biological factors underlie much criminal conduct. If so, Raine argues, we should treat it as a medical condition. "Treating the physical causes will work more quickly and effectively than repairing the complicated social factors that also contribute to criminal behaviour," he argues.
.......

And here he steps aside from his discipline and conjectures what it all means:

..........
In the final few chapters, however, Raine sets aside his academic cap and tries on a more speculative one, with somewhat less success. Suppose, for instance, that in another 20 years our knowledge has progressed to the point where we can scan someone's brain and predict that they have better-than-even odds of committing a murder in the next few years. What should we do? Raine spins a dystopian fantasy of a future where at-risk individuals are forced into treatment centres and held there until their brains can be modified to reduce the risk.

Pushing the limits even further, he imagines screening and re-educating children, or even requiring prospective parents to prove their knowledge and fitness before being granted a parenting licence. All this is certainly interesting - but Raine sheds his authority when he crosses the line between science and speculation. Back to the lab.

What bothers me is why is he scorned for speculating? Did it bother the article writer that the head researcher who wrote the book spilled the beans a bit on what our fate might be?

It's like telling someone you'll make the wound better without saying it'll be painful. Appears to me that some people see it a certain way and do not want to entertain other ways.

reply to post by DantesPeak

Interesting. My sister has a high heart rate. We're both somewhat sedentary, but I have an athletic body and move a lot more than her. I grew up bouncing off walls. Probably why it's lower.

I didn't see from the article how low heart rate causes them to be criminals, but I think an inference was made that lower arousal sensitivity (leading to risk taking) might cause the heart rate to lessen. I think with this you have to be careful or changing the heart rate will impact other things.

What about hypertension? My father has that. I worry about that because I know my systolic is somewhat above average and hovers the 117-135 range when I'm resting. So I've read a bit about high blood pressure and will read more (in due time). I know about the DASH diet.

Seems like we're all agreed that this is fair BS - but just occurred to me, does it also suggest that studies linking smoking to lung cancer are also bs???

I think that wanting to kill people would be a better indicator of criminal behavior than a resting heart rate.

But hey, if phrenology would better fit the categorization of people, then feel the bumps on MY head!

Be it race, gender, religious preference, sexual preference, wealth, drinking or smoking habits, progressives aren't happy unless they can label you.

My resting heart rate is 100 to 110 BPM. So that is the reason I am honest. Always wondered why I was cursed with being an honest and trustworthy person.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Hypertension will also cause a higher heart rate because the heart will have a harder time pumping blood due to the high pressure gradient in your body. Over time, hypertension can cause hypertrophy of the left ventricle which means a thickening of the myocardium and as a result the heart rate will decrease. Eventually LVH (left ventricular hypertrophy) can lead to heart failure, so it's important to keep your blood pressure under control.

A normal blood pressure is 120/80, but it will fluctuate throughout the day, and there are times when it is appropriate to have a higher blood pressure. One such example is during exercise. For this reason you should never base your blood pressure on a single reading. In fact, to be diagnosed with hypertension you must have it checked by your doctor several times over about a two week period. 117-135 is an acceptable range for systolic pressure if you're taking it throughout the day.