Report: Ohio courts illegally jailing the poor

so it is ok for the government to not be able to service their debt to the world
it's ok for the super rich to put their money in tax havens of off shore accounts
it's ok to have wall street and banks to rob the country blind

but if we steal or owe the government money we get jailed for not paying up in time
lol backwards country

Originally posted by jude11
More and more prisons are privately owned corporations. Costs the State nothing and the State actually makes money from having more people in prison.

It's beginning to be the norm for the US as they have more people in prison than all other Countries combined.

Peace

The short sighted version. I know you are pointing out their thoughts on the matter. But, people are obviously more productive when they are not in prison. Which is why throwing someone away for a few months while they do something to kick in the profit train, will net the state far less than if they were out and about contributing with a real/decent job, paying real decent taxes.

In the end, only so many people can go to prison before no one is left to pay for the people in there... And while slave labour (I mean *cough* work programs) do bring in some money.... The overall negative effects of this have lasting consequences.

The article says these are unpaid fines. What kind of fines are we talking about? The article doesn't say. I have lived in Ohio for over 30 years and never had a fine before.

Originally posted by WontBeFooled
well.. its what everyone middle class and lower will be subject to in camps here soon.. your spot is already reserved at guantanamo bay. pretty relative to jailing the poor.

This won't fly. There are more than dark hats here.

Corruption in courts has been rampant for far too long, and abuses of freedoms. What they dictate as law and order is often a pile of crimes with criminals admitting guilt via signatures. We're waiting for more to wake up, to change this. Or, to come unglued in inactivity. Find positive solutions and actions to take in groups.

Don't pay your fine and you should sit in jail for a few days. I can't see them erasing fines for jailtime though, lots of guys around here know that the fine disappears and that they can't be put in jail for not paying the jailing fee.

That backfires sometimes though. Many kids around here know the exact amount of jail time and the fines they will get from doing something illegal. They say they can do the time standing on their heads Make them work in jail so they won't want to go back. feed them inferior food, not better and more food than they are getting living on their own

reply to post by rickymouse


Don't believe in any form of fines. That is isn't equal. Only equality is legal and all other slavery laws are illegal and crimes against all souls. The judges need some jail time, who are doing this to the people and even who uphold this villainous system which is a complete violation of human rights, dignity and the only real laws that exist, natural common law, thou shalt not harm. Slavery and iequality based on banking systems is major harm. Oops that is overlooked.

A 2000 dollar fine to a poor person is like paying 1 milion, it is out of their league.

There should be no poor or homeless anywhere.

There are no slaves.

There is no dog eat dog natural order, that is demonology.

Originally posted by jude11
More and more prisons are privately owned corporations. Costs the State nothing and the State actually makes money from having more people in prison.

It's beginning to be the norm for the US as they have more people in prison than all other Countries combined.

Peace

Oh, yes it does cost the state money. Do you think these private prisons are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts? No - they are doing it for profit. The states pay for every inmate - more inmates, more money into the coffers of the Prison-Industrial complex. The states save on employee benefits, etc. It barbaric. Just another instance of privitization - Union Busting as well.

Yet for some reason the politicians can't figure out why we have jail and prison overpopulation.

reply to post by Unity_99


I don't usually disagree with you but knowing a lot about the people who are committing the crimes I have more insight in this matter. I have known people who were in trouble a lot when they were young and others who have never learned, still getting in trouble. I even had friends that used to be in the Milwaukee Angels. To balance out my knowledge, I know doctors, lawyers, ex-congressmen, judges, police men, and business men of all kinds. Without knowing how everyone thinks, you cannot know how to fix things.

It doesn't matter what the social status of a person is, it is their desire to take or swindle something from others that I consider bad. If a person smokes pot but acquires his money in a moral and civil way, working for it, than I see no problem. I think that everyone who gained what they got in a deceitful way should lose it myself, that would take the money away from a lot who have. Talking someone into buying something they don't need so you or your kind can profit from it is always deceit of the wrong kind. Half the people in the US do this. Don't question what you are doing as long as you get a paycheck is an excuse.

reply to post by rickymouse


There is a huge difference between a safety violation, and a real crime where someone intentionally harms or deprives another.

Making a judgement call when a light changes should not be considered a crime, and there should not be a fine.

As opposed to intentionally running a light.

There is a clear difference.

I got nailed on a red light camera.. I did a rolling stop on a right turn on red and was sent a letter, complete with about 4 pics of my truck and its license plate..
Pissed me off but i paid the 50 dollar fine and moved on.

There are a couple of issues here. One is disproportionate sentencing(90 days for stealing a candy bar).
The other is fines and charges that impact the poor in discriminitory ways.

Another problem that has gotten worse is excessive bail. This becomes a fine because, guilty or innocent,
you don't get what you post back. Because Bail Bondsmen have been big supporters of local politics, courts often can't release a person on personal recognizance anymore.

An example recently is the teachers in DC that were caught changing test answers. Bail for some was set at $1 million. This had little to do with the likelihood of flight or even of the severity of the sentence. It was more about
the anger of the judge about the nature of the crime. For a $1 million bail the defendent has to raise $100,000. 10 % of that goes back to the court and the bail bondsmen keeps the rest even if the person is acquitted. In essence, the individual has been fined before they have been convicted.

reply to post by poet1b


I agree. Our state lowered the income tax under Engler too far. Now the police need to give out extra tickets for meaningless violations to get money to support the judicial system. I remember when a lot of stuff was different, the state, with a half of a percent more income tax, took care of the state. Now they hid the tax all over the place and raised property values and taxrates on our homes to get their money. I like the old way better.

People think that the seat belt law saves lives. They don't understand, the people go faster if they feel secure and the accidents are worse. False security is not good......The seat belt law was created to acquire revenue, not for safety. People are fools to believe otherwise. I know a cop that got in trouble for not giving out seat belt tickets.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by littled16

 

It is that way here in CA as well, and a whole lot of other states, and it should be changed.

That is not justice, it is the policies of a totalitarian state.

It is one of those ways the U.S. has remained backwards.

And this days it is getting worse, especially will the growing numbers of safety laws.

So....people who are convicted of a crime and subsequently fined, and refuse to pay that fine should just be let go and forgotten? What about greater crimes Can I rob, and instead of going to prison I just continue with what I was doing?

People going to jail for failure to pay a fine is in fact "justice" and is what should be happening. People who think they can get away with cheating and not giving society it's due when they error abslutely should be given some time to contemplate said error(s).

reply to post by poet1b


S&F for bringing up an important topic. It's shameful. This is what happens when you have privatized prisons that demand 90% occupancy to be profitable.

There have been a couple of judges arrested for sending people to jail on false charges because of monetary kickbacks (I don't have the details -- news in an email from contact).

I also heard from someone I know, there are ordinary, non-criminal people who are in the local jail for being too poor to pay their fines for minor violations. Outrageous.

This is a topic that needs a bright, harsh spotlight thrown on it in public.

reply to post by engineer418


Violating a safety crime isnt the same as robbing someone.

The biggest problem is how many people can't tell the difference.

Originally posted by zerotime
The article says these are unpaid fines. What kind of fines are we talking about? The article doesn't say. I have lived in Ohio for over 30 years and never had a fine before.

Fines happen. About a year ago my car was totaled in a wreck. The police department showed up and fined me because my car was obstructing traffic when they arrived. Naturally, I should have been able to do something about this, and I gladly would have had my car been mobile after the accident. My car was only worth $1100 according to the insurance company. My fine was $1500, I wasn't even the one at fault.

reply to post by engineer418


Oh please!! I just want to know, where exactly is this wonderful "society" that you speak of to which we are all so indebted?? Society and it's Legal Systems and Enforcement aren't about "Justice" and haven't been for a very long time, if ever. Your idea that "unpaid fines" of whatever type should equate to "loss of freedom" is as fascist a statement as one could possibly hold.

Nobody needs to be "jailed" for "infractions", "citations" or even most "violations(misdomeanor and felony)". Jail and/or prison should be used for those individuals who are likely to harm "Persons and Property" and even then it's not exactly a black and white decision as to who qualifies as such. It should be fairly easy to see by now that nobody wins by "locking up" such large percentages of people like we do here in the USA. There are other ways of dealing with these problems besides feeding a system which itself is a "nessessary evil".

If you want someone to pay their traffic fines, make them pay them on their next DMV visit. Renew License, register your vehicle, new tags, etc. just tack on what they owe the court too. Fines will get paid and nobody gets arrested and booked as a criminal over owing some institution of government some money.

But I'm a bit more jaded than most I guess when it comes to our obligations to society I suppose. Especially when such obligations are delivered by a fist in the face or boot on your neck!! So don't listen to me, make up your own minds.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by engineer418

 

Violating a safety crime isnt the same as robbing someone.

The biggest problem is how many people can't tell the difference.

In as much as the "law" doesn't differentiate between the two, you likewise should not, its only logical for you to comply with as much of their BS as possible.In that manner you avoid as much BS as possible.