As economy flails, debtors' prisons thrive.

As economy flails, debtors' prisons thrive.

(MoneyWatch) Thousands of Americans are sent to jail not for committing a crime, but because they can't afford to pay for traffic tickets, medical bills and court fees.

Roughly a third of U.S. states today jail people for not paying off their debts, from court-related fines and fees to credit card and car loans, according to the American Civil Liberties Union. Such practices contravene a 1983 United States Supreme Court ruling that they violate the Constitutions's Equal Protection Clause.

Well, there you have it.

Cant pay your bills, youre going to jail.

Cant pay your taxes, youre going to jail.

There arent any jobs and the government is destroying our economy more every day but who cares.

Such stories are by no means unusual. Rather, they reflect a justice system that in effect criminalizes poverty.

Poverty? Whos not "poor" anymore? Over the last few years, the "middle class" has been systematically wiped out.

Most people are just making it, even with two incomes. Most if not all of the money that comes in, goes right back out.

And with the never ending rules and regulations constantly being added, the odds of you being labeled as a "criminal" are constantly increasing.

Ayn Rand warned about this decades ago. A society which is so over taxed, so over regulated that almost anything and everything is a crime.

Couple this with "for profit prisons" and you now have yet another way in which to enslave the population.

Although I completely disagree with the idea of debtors prisons, I think you're over-exaggerating this a bit. These are not private debts, these are public debts - court fees, traffic fines, etc. It is not the case anywhere that you can go to jail for failing to pay a private bill like your Vias bill. (If that were the case, over half of all Americans would be in jail!)

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Although I completely disagree with the idea of debtors prisons, I think you're over-exaggerating this a bit. These are not private debts, these are public debts - court fees, traffic fines, etc. It is not the case anywhere that you can go to jail for failing to pay a private bill like your Vias bill. (If that were the case, over half of all Americans would be in jail!)

There are plenty of people that are profiled in this country every single day. Even not paying a simple traffic ticket will get a warrant out for your arrest. No matter if you believe you were targeted unjustly or not.

Guilty until proven innocent.

reply to post by cconn487


Well, in my state they send the unpaid ticket to a private debt collector and suspend your license until it is paid, but no jail. I suppose that's something that differs from state to state.

I find this to be ridiculous as it costs an average of $30 to house ONE person PER DAY in prison. That's prison, not jail. I'm sure there are statistics out there. I don't feel like googling them. But come on!

Yep those are public debts just like the federal government throwing people in jail for tax evasion.

Whats the difference?

And people think state rights are so important.

When it is the states and local courts that are the most abusive.

We really need a constitutional amendment that makes it a violation of our rights to jail someone for a safety violation. Unless someone was actually hurt, and recklessness can be proved, no one should go to jail for a traffic violation.

Funny how the same people who want to eliminate business regulations are all for regulating our liberties with vice laws and controls on everything imaginable.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Although I completely disagree with the idea of debtors prisons, I think you're over-exaggerating this a bit. These are not private debts, these are public debts - court fees, traffic fines, etc. It is not the case anywhere that you can go to jail for failing to pay a private bill like your Vias bill. (If that were the case, over half of all Americans would be in jail!)

Actually, he's right and I have definitely seen the pointy end of this attempted with people close to me. It's a little complex on the private debts..but real enough.

Law suit goes to judgement. You don't show up on the judgement (few do when they have no hope of paying anything, as I understand it). No biggy.. they default judge against you. No income, no loss...Right? Wrong..

The point wasn't the judgement because even those idiots know it won't get a broke man to pay what he has no money for. It allows for the NEXT step and that's where your unpaid phone bill or credit card bill can put you in jail.

The next step is a discovery hearing ordered through the court. That, you can't just :not show up for". Although many still do ..since the Judgement is thought to be the worst..so anything else? Baahhh.. Why bother.

Well... Failure to Appear to a court ordered proceeding is why. That's a bench warrant and you're in bracelets you didn't even have to pay for when next a cop finds you. (Sheriff more likely, actually). NASTY little game, isn't it?

* BTW.. State's rights mean EVERYTHING.

Section 11. Imprisonment for debt.—That no person shall be imprisoned for debt,
except for nonpayment of fines and penalties imposed by law.
Source: Const. of 1875, Art. II, Sec. 16.

Source

That one short piece of our State Constitution is why collectors from outside MIssouri TRY to pull this stunt but..attempting it is as far as they get. Kinda hard to ignore that law when every cop in the state is trained to know the basic top sections of the State Constitution.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Here in CA they don't even have to serve you. Miss a court date, and a warrant is issued. You can't simply show up and cop a plea and get a trial date, you must go before the judge and humble yourself.

It really is a nasty little system they have going. Everyone who gets caught up in the court system becomes a charge number for the judges, clerks, cops, jailers, bail bondsmen.

In my opinion, the whole system exists to perpetuate crime. The real criminals are given a revolving door, because high crime rates cause people to support more police, more courts, more jails.

reply to post by SilentKoala

and since when does child support = public debt ??
more ppl are in jail for an inability to pay the obligation than those who have plenty of funds and simply choose not to ... why do they walk free and earn more $$ while the poor (those who can't pay) and the children (of those wealthy pricks) have to suffer ??

how is that even remotely fair or balanced ?

reply to post by Honor93


That's different. It's child abuse to not provide for your child. Not to mention a burden on society which will end up having to foot the bill when the mother is on welfare and food stamps and the kid is on free lunch program at school and in community day care.

If you can't afford a kid, learn how to wrap your willie. Don't be reckless with your sexploits.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

hey Wrabbit, just a quickie question.
i was perusing your link when i noticed all of the 'odd numbered' pages seem to be missing.
what's up with that or did it load wrong or something?

i confess i only scanned the first 150pgs but not a single odd numbered one exists.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Although I completely disagree with the idea of debtors prisons, I think you're over-exaggerating this a bit. These are not private debts, these are public debts - court fees, traffic fines, etc. It is not the case anywhere that you can go to jail for failing to pay a private bill like your Vias bill. (If that were the case, over half of all Americans would be in jail!)

Deborah Poplawski was feeding a parking meter in downtown Minneapolis when city police pulled up, arrested her and took her off to jail. She was forced to change into jail-issue underwear and an orange uniform and sleep in a room with a dozen women, one of whom offered her drugs. She spent 25 hours in jail.

Her crime? She failed to pay $250 in credit card debt.

Unpaid debt? You could go to jail

It happens, and will continue to happen.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by Honor93

 

That's different. It's child abuse to not provide for your child. Not to mention a burden on society which will end up having to foot the bill when the mother is on welfare and food stamps and the kid is on free lunch program at school and in community day care.

If you can't afford a kid, learn how to wrap your willie. Don't be reckless with your sexploits.

oh BS, it isn't even close to 'child abuse'
sorry but that PC BS doesn't fly here, try again.

it's not different or the parents wouldn't be in "debtor's prison" would they ?

and, how does that lame-arse propaganda you spewed hold up next to the parents who are (or cannot) pay for children that are not their biological offspring ??

your myopic response is 2/3 of the problem ... perhaps you should consider that.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by Honor93

 

That's different. It's child abuse to not provide for your child. Not to mention a burden on society which will end up having to foot the bill when the mother is on welfare and food stamps and the kid is on free lunch program at school and in community day care.

If you can't afford a kid, learn how to wrap your willie. Don't be reckless with your sexploits.

Whaaaat?


Really, the courts dont care about children. They care about the "money" they can make while child support funds are being held in their GIANT account. Imagine how much they make in interest, Monthly. Not to mention the "paperwork" fees they add to the mix. I wont even go into the genderbias of most States that grant the woman the children based on no reason but the fathers are usually the breadwinners...... Another sick game perpatrated on the behest of Children.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Here in CA they don't even have to serve you. Miss a court date, and a warrant is issued. You can't simply show up and cop a plea and get a trial date, you must go before the judge and humble yourself.

It really is a nasty little system they have going. Everyone who gets caught up in the court system becomes a charge number for the judges, clerks, cops, jailers, bail bondsmen.

In my opinion, the whole system exists to perpetuate crime. The real criminals are given a revolving door, because high crime rates cause people to support more police, more courts, more jails.

You would happen to name the specific state I was thinking about when I said I'd seen it attempted. lol... Yeah, apparently this is like a State Sport in California or something. 'Whack-A-Debtor'. It's a sick game and just adds pain to insult on someone who has likely already hit bottom.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

hey Wrabbit, just a quickie question.
i was perusing your link when i noticed all of the 'odd numbered' pages seem to be missing.
what's up with that or did it load wrong or something?

i confess i only scanned the first 150pgs but not a single odd numbered one exists.

It's a PDF..What are you having open it by default? I have Google Docs opening them and that comes up with 2 physical document pages to each computer "sheet" being displayed. Page numbers are to the top center of each sheet, so it's a weird way of numbering for layout and position... I'm seeing the numbers though?

I have to admit..it took me a minute to find them and then scan down to make sure it was consistent. Odd isn't it?

*I just opened it in another PDF reader and it's the same, but this one is set to only show one sheet (two on it) at a time horizontally. It makes it a whole lot easier to see.

Missouri makes a habit of this and it's annoying as heck. Instead of making an electronic version of a document, they literally seem to scan the book into a PDF creator. I hope we aren't paying the document people too much in this state for that. Thanks for the catch. I'll be sure to note that when I use things like this again.

We have a society/government that is being built off the backs of the poor people. Talk about kicking a person when they are down. A wanton vicious circle of atrocities against the destitute. It's despicable and against the constitution.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

adobe reader.
didn't delay loading but i didn't find one odd numbered page.
what caused me to notice was the break in structure.
clearly, the intended verbiage was missing.

uuuuh, maybe ... i didn't even think to look for a 'scroll' option

i'll have to try it again.
hey man, if you've visited FL, you had to notice there isn't anything uniform about our 'layouts' either.
thanks for the reply

whack a debtor
yeppers, that game is making its way around

yes sir, that was it indeed ... book layout ... had to scroll to see'em but they're there.
thanks.

Originally posted by Honor93
and, how does that lame-arse propaganda you spewed hold up next to the parents who are (or cannot) pay for children that are not their biological offspring ??
.

They can get a paternity test to prove it.