Missing virus vial raises concerns at UTMB facility

Originally posted by misscurious
Sounds like a job for Ethan hunt..

Cue the mood music.

youtu.be...

reply to post by ausername

Are you sure that is true in this case?

A director at the facility stated that this virus would only be a threat to the public "if it was stolen"

And as you know, bacteria and viruses can be stored frozen virtually forever, and be live again anytime they want it...

I know that is what the article says "they said"... but really, any live Level 4 HOT virus that could be used to start a plague is not stored anywhere outside the Military storage facilities designed to keep them from falling into the wrong hands. And the ones that are are dead. Especially the ones at Universities. Thinking about it for a minute, that would be really dangerous.

Like storing an atomic bomb in the basement at Harvard for the students to study.

A really good book on the subject that delves into all these details is called The Hot Zone. where I learned about the CDC, USAMRIID, and procedures for handling such monsters. It will answer a lot of your questions about it.

reply to post by intrptr


Seems that you have it all figured out.

I hope you are right.

reply to post by ausername

Not really. I was addressing the notion that something as hazardous as that would be stored in a university basement freezer. And that if it was being kept there it would be for identification purposes in education of students and be a dead sample of the virus. I don't actually know about that particular university or that virus sample. The article said it was transmissible thru the air and that makes it a level 4 Biohazard. That kind of thing is a no no as far as United states law is concerned. Outside the government labs that is.

Under current United States law, bio-agents which have been declared by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services or the U.S. Department of Agriculture to have the "potential to pose a severe threat to public health and safety" are officially defined as "select agents". The CDC categorizes these agents (A, B or C) and administers the Select Agent Program, which regulates the laboratories which may possess, use, or transfer select agents within the United States.

Bioterrorism

The CDC keeps every disease known to man (dead or alive) in the lab, one of only two such labs in the world. The other is in Russia. They keep these samples for identification purposes to determine what agent is involved in any outbreak. The reason there are only a couple of these labs worldwide is to prevent confusion in the identification process. If several labs announce different findings then that adds more time to stopping or limiting an outbreak. Sometimes it can take days to culture and identify a sample of some unknown disease burning through a city. They are very busy as there are small outbreaks of lesser pathogens all the time and until certain identity is established everyone holds their breath. A lot of early symptoms can appear similar to other more aggressive strains. After all the common cold is a virus too.

One thing I am certain of is that they would never announce an outbreak or a theft of some nasty because it would only serve to panic people and might add to the spread of an infectious agent. For instance, if they announced a major city had an Ebola outbreak, people would flee the city some of them might be carrying the virus. And if some amount was stolen, an announcement would only give notice to the perpetrators that what they had was actually dangerous (as if they didn't know already). They would of course be more careful knowing that their crime had been discovered.

This article therefore is suspect because it violates all the protocols of disease control, except of course the media idiots who ran it. That is why they ran it... for views? Shame on them.

Originally posted by intrptr

This article therefore is suspect because it violates all the protocols of disease control, except of course the media idiots who ran it. That is why they ran it... for views? Shame on them.

Since you are speculating here, maybe it was leaked to the press because people involved were genuinely concerned?

Look neither you or I know what is actually going on here, or if it is, or isn't a threat to the public. Obviously if this particular virus shows up in the general population, it will be easy to make the connection to this.

That said, who really knows anything here?

The threat of biological terrorist attacks are a reality, no missing vials of viruses will change that.

reply to post by ausername

The threat of biological terrorist attacks are a reality, no missing vials of viruses will change that.

I totally agree with that. Biological warfare, the poor mans nuke.

reply to post by intrptr


Bio weapons scare me more than nuclear weapons. Small pox particularly Hemorrhagic smallpox scares the hell out of me.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by intrptr

 

Bio weapons scare me more than nuclear weapons. Small pox particularly Hemorrhagic smallpox scares the hell out of me.

Agreed. Especially weaponized strains of small pox. Don't know how accurate this one is but says tons of the stuff went missing after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has long incubation, is transmissible by contact and thru the air. High mortality rate and the US has not been immunized for it since the early 1970's.

Weaponized Small Pox

Very scary. Imagine a scenario where a few infected people travel the country by air, rail and road, touching everything and shaking hands with everyone they meet. That it hasn't happened yet is amazing. Its not as though the US has not left enemies in its wake.

The problem with that scenario though is how do you control an outbreak to keep it from spreading around the world in 24 hours? Modern transportation is a jet flight away from anywhere. A release of some virulent pathogen could blow back in the face of those using it.

Thats my only guess as to why an outbreak has not occurred in the modern world yet, intentional or not. That and maybe aleeens...

Originally posted by intrptr

The problem with that scenario though is how do you control an outbreak to keep it from spreading around the world in 24 hours? Modern transportation is a jet flight away from anywhere. A release of some virulent pathogen could blow back in the face of those using it.

Just a theory here, lets say that someone actually went to the expense of developing a biological weapon like this, and also have developed an exclusive vaccine/treatment/cure.

After achieving the desired kill level, or population reductions, that could then be released and the spread could be halted there.

In fact, such a weapon could be deployed in ways also to effect only targeted populations with minimal spread beyond the targeted populations.

In essence, this would be the "perfect weapon" especially if it can be delivered on an "enemy" population in ways that provide plausible deniability for the true culprits... Blame the terrorists, and then be a hero with the vaccine!

Yeah, lets hope THAT never happens.

reply to post by ausername

Just a theory here, lets say that someone actually went to the expense of developing a biological weapon like this, and also have developed an exclusive vaccine/treatment/cure.

The problem with that notion is the requirement for a bio - "weapon" (probably the top priority) is that it be incurable in the first place. If there was a cure that secret would not be a secret for long. Then it wouldn't be a weapon any more.

They couldn't keep Atomic Secrets for very long either. Oppenheimer was directly accused of in fact giving away the A Bomb to the Soviets, wasn't he? Out of guilt?

Its what spies are busy doing full time, figuring out the other guys weapons... and failsafes. I don't know as much about that, though.

Originally posted by intrptr

Its what spies are busy doing full time, figuring out the other guys weapons... and failsafes. I don't know as much about that, though.

What if the weapon was developed independently, or privately and outside of any "government" sanctions or controls.... And spies.

What if that person, or persons involved have intentions of saving the world through population reductions, using their "perfect weapon" , and intends to use "terrorists" to deliver that weapon?

There are millions of possibilities here, suffice to say that with the intent, motive and funding it would not be too difficult to develop and use biological weapons to inflict devastating damage. It isn't just the domain of the military superpowers anymore.

In fact, one day, at some point in time, this could prove to be an even greater threat to humanity, than the current proliferation of nuclear weapons.

IMO

reply to post by intrptr


Maybe they are waiting until the last of the vaccinated die off, I wonder if the vaccine for smallpox that the US has in stock for every citizen, covers all strains?

reply to post by ausername


Thanks for that info. The part that concerns me is where it says the rats are the "main host". Surely there are others, surely it can mutate, surely there are other ways to spread it, etc.

Originally posted by fictitious
I just saw this on my local news. They said that the only way to spend the disease is through Venezuelan rats! Now I'm no expert, but that's a blatant lie. Oh how they try to make people feel at ease. I'll let y'all know if the zombie apocalypse happens anytime soon.

Creepy stuff. They could have at least come up with a better story than it being thrown out and not a hazard.

From the Wiki page for the virus:

"Because the virus is contracted by aerosol dissemination, concern arose shortly after the first cases emerged in 1989 due to fear of biological warfare. Potential biological terrorism agents were identified and categorized in 1999 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as part of the Congressional initiative to further response capabilities to biological weapons [4] . Arenaviruses causing hemorrhagic fevers, along with a genus of virus called filoviruses, were categorized in Category A; these are pathogens with the highest potential impact on public health safety."

So I am pretty curious how the news managed to report completely false information about it and call it the truth. Though by now if anyone actually believes everything they see on the news, they need to be woken up to what is really happening and educate themselves and others!
Also note, if you read the whole page there is recent posting about the missing vial added to this page.

en.wikipedia.org...

you have got that right, they are acting like it is routine to lose vials. On the news tonight the head guy said it was most likely destroyed in a routine cleaning. Sure it did, there is nothing routine abouit losing a virus in a lab. I work in manufacturing, and we would freak out if a vial of chemicals were missing, much less a virus. Get ready for somthing big coming. It is very easy to make a teaspoon of a virus into a 55 gallon drums. Anyone with a masters or doctorate in the feild with the right equipment can do it.

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen


Well one good thing if it can even be considered good is that hemorrhagic diseases are spread via direct contact not airborne so we needn't fear any kind of epidemic. They have it controlled from patient one if someone comes in contact with it. Of course I am not thinking of any nefarious distribution but accidental contact. As a weapon its not practical .

reply to post by Opportunia


I became curious as it was my understanding that hemmoragic disease was spread via direct contact but you posted info from wiki that it was airborne. Upon reading further it does state that you need to breath in the blood, saliva or other body fluid to get it, rather misleading to say it is spread by air , when it still requires direct contact with another person who has it. Not your fault but the shortened version does a disservice to making information available and kind of makes it into fear mongering.

Oh great-

Another false flag event. Id much rather be nuked than die of a virus.

reply to post by ausername

What if the weapon was developed independently, or privately and outside of any "government" sanctions or controls.... And spies.

In the case of chemical weapons, there already exist a sufficient number of deadly neurotoxins to fill any mad scientists weirdest wet dream. They don't need to invent any more. There is no cure for most of them, once ingested.

In the case of Biological weapons the limited number of diseases or plagues already exist in nature, some of them have been augmented to be a little more deadly. But unless it already exists, it is unlikely that there are any more heretofore unknown deadly diseases or plagues hiding in piles of Yak or bat s*** . Otherwise someone would have contracted them by now and the CDC would have a sample of it in their meat locker. See?

Whenever there is a new pathogen or new variant of an old one, the CDC clamors for their piece of that pie. That book the Hot Zone talks about that. That freezer in their basement is the ultimate repository of every known living slate wiper on the planet. The biologists are weird about their "pets".

What if that person, or persons involved have intentions of saving the world through population reductions, using their "perfect weapon" , and intends to use "terrorists" to deliver that weapon?

Although down played or even omitted from the Main Stream at large for the most part, that is the conundrum. Some infected "tourists" traveling American cities during the two weeks of "incubation"... that is what keeps the people involved with these issues up at night. A suicide "bio terrorist" could have more than one pathogen they are spreading too.

There are millions of possibilities here, suffice to say that with the intent, motive and funding it would not be too difficult to develop and use biological weapons to inflict devastating damage. It isn't just the domain of the military superpowers anymore.

Yes the poor alternative to mass death. In some parlors the preferable alternative because the end result of mass casualties is not so destructive to the targeted population. All the loot is still intact. Just the people are all dead. Plus, no radioactivity, you can clean up the bodies, turn the infrastructure back on and move in. The terrorists have threatened to turn America into a "wasteland", that is what they mean by that (IMHO).

In fact, one day, at some point in time, this could prove to be an even greater threat to humanity, than the current proliferation of nuclear weapons.

Different means I guess. Both have their place. The threat of nukes is instantaneous compared to plague, but also less indiscriminate (so to speak). The danger is what if the wind shifts sort of thing. And all plague returns to spores when it runs out of meat. Those spores can last for centuries in the ground, waiting to be ingested again.

Not the prettiest of pictures. This kind of threat is ongoing today without terrorists. AIDS, Malaria, and other STD, already kill tens of millions and there are no cures for those either. They are outbreaks already. As populations get bigger and more dense the risk of other serious outbreaks is increased.

If this subject interests you like it does me, get that book. Its a can't put it down page turner, geared towards the layman. The interviews with the people in charge of defense of the world are frank and open, eye opening.

reply to post by Opportunia

So I am pretty curious how the news managed to report completely false information about it and call it the truth.

If there is news to be disseminated about any potential health threats the CDC is the goto agency. Despite the disbelief and mistrust of media outlets these days, they are the most qualified and best equipped independent laboratory on the planet. You can believe what they say (if they say it). I am sure there are "mute" buttons somewhere in the chain. If they don't corroborate or contradict some media hype, then you know there was nothing to it.

CDC