NRA's Wayne LaPierre lets it rip at CPAC... and says what so many of us have been thinking

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by bl4ke360

 

www.youtube.com... .4474.7j14j4j2.27.0...0.0...1ac.1.lIBMmUvHI_c

And if that link gets broken, just YouTube "how to disarm a gunman".

Hate to tell you this but none of those techniques work reliably enough for me to bet my life on them. We were taught these techniques in Special Forces. Even after a week of this type training and repetition most of the operators could only get them to work effectively against a marking gun wielding aggressor at full speed about 30-50% of the time. Some men were better others worse.

Often the assailant would get off a shot that would be very problematic for the "disarming person" to deal with.

This is a SF unit with training in combatives and a good mix of martial arts skills as well. A damn sight more aggressive and a lot more fit than your average American. I'd say that at full speed the assailant won 60% of the time. Some guys did better than others of course. Again, this was after an intensive week long course in the techniques learning by repetition and muscle memory.

We tried it again latter several weeks after the course and the reliability of the techniques dropped even further as no one was drilling the methods 5-6 hours a day.

A firearm doesn't take a lot of training to use effectively. That is the beauty of it. IN fact that is how it changed warfare. No longer did it take years to make a lethal warrior - 3 weeks at the range and some conditioning and a farmer come soldier can take out the most prized and lethally trained warrior on the field at a distance.

It is an equalizer.

Also, regarding the use of lethal force to protect property. Unless you are going to ask an intruder their intent you have no idea why they are in the home. Most States do not require an intruder be armed or even that he make a threatening move for a homeowner to legally be able to blow them away. This is good. I don't care really if you are there for my DVDs or to rape my daughter - I am not going to ask, you will get no warnings it will be your last DVD run... Don't want to die don't come in my house for any reason uninvited.

Missouri law even allows you to shoot an intruder who is in the act of entering the property, so if someone is breaking down the door you can shoot them.

The reason lethal force is used is the principle of defense is to reduce one's attacker to the least threatening state possible in the quickest time. Dead or bleeding out on the floor is zero threat zone – a win. There is no “fighting fair” when one’s life or the life of loved ones is in question. Sure I guess we could "fight" but that places me at risk. Why do all that nonsense when I can drop a target with a shot faster than they can cover the distance.


And just for the record - I do not belong to the NRA. I do not respect what they do. They are a lobby group and just because they lobby for something I support doesn't make them any less of a part of what is worst in American politics. I have never given them a dime (other than for a safety course) nor do I intend to.

I own probably 100 weapons of various kinds and have several thousand rounds of ammo to go with them. I really could care less what laws are passed - I will keep mine.

The FED wants them come and get them, bring the boys we will make a day (or a week) of it. It even might be fun on some level. Just pack a lunch and don't forget the body bags - you will need them.

Was going to edit my post to add something but its past the time.

I wanted to quote my first Platoon sergeant in the Army when he was teaching us "hand to hand" combat techniques one day in the bear pit.

He was a Vietnam MACSOG veteran way past his prime - officers hated him and we of course loved him.

Anyway, he said "Forget all that crap they taught you in basic training about hand to hand." "First thing to remember when someone wants to kill you is that there are no rules and hitting someone with something else, hell anything else is almost better than hitting them with your hand." "This is not High School, it is not about bragging rights or %uss% - the victor will not walk away while you are still breathing."

Then he proceeded to teach us how to use everything Soldiers normally carry from our empty weapons, to knives, e-tools, helmets, empty magazines to fend off an attacker using a weapon of his own.

I am guessing this is how he made it through his three tours in Vietnam and others didn't. Unless you are an expert of some kind and likely not even then is an unarmed attacker going to come out victorious over one who is.

All that said with the caveat that they have genuine lethal intent for a weapon absent the intent to use it is pretty worthless.

He was great up until the point he said that the Federal Government has federal gun laws already on the books that need to be enforced. This is the difference between the NRA and Gun Owners of America. Larry Pratt would have never said that. You see, the FedGov has NO Constitutional authority WHATSOEVER to have even one gun law on the books. Shall not be infringed means that the FedGov can't pass any gun laws, and LaPierre fails to recognize this very important fact.

reply to post by MrSpad


Hi, Mrspad...one page you said the gun sellers are money hungry and want us to buy guns but they are so cheap!! ...So that doesn't make sense....I live next to a store with a big parking lot..."CHEAPER THAN DIRT GUNS"...here just north of Dallas.....I reload and have since Mr Jordan sold my mom a 12 gauge "Texan" brand reloader. ha...used to put 12 gauge's cup of powder in my 20 gauge loads.....it's real cheap for a lowpaid working man, even

I like how every gun argument splits into a clear dichotomy: Pro-gun people providing statistics, evidence, and making valid points and powerful arguments, and anti-gun people using emotional rhetoric, name calling, with red herrings and strawmen aplenty.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
I like how every gun argument splits into a clear dichotomy: Pro-gun people providing statistics, evidence, and making valid points and powerful arguments, and anti-gun people using emotional rhetoric, name calling, with red herrings and strawmen aplenty.

edit on 16-3-2013 by FollowTheWhiteRabbit because: (no reason given)

The anti-gunners have always used emotion, redundant rhetoric and name calling. It is all that they know. They have no statistics to back their claims as they don't exist... what data they try to use is always skewed so badly that it is laughable. Pro gunners need only look to cities such as D.C., Chicago and NYC for proof that gun control does NOTHING to prevent gun crimes.

Originally posted by CB328
I'd rather be an elitist than a lunatic asshat like Pierre and the reset of the NRA. The NRA are terrorists as far as I'm concerned.I can't believe anyone pays any attention to CPAC anymore, it's a bunch of ultra right wing psychotic morons.

You will see who the terrorist are when Obama's SS knock down your door and drag you out by your hair to be processed in his new Nazi Germany. Then again maybe you belong to this group since you cant see common sense. Just so you know, You wont win.

Originally posted by CB328
I'd rather be an elitist than a lunatic asshat like Pierre and the reset of the NRA. The NRA are terrorists as far as I'm concerned.I can't believe anyone pays any attention to CPAC anymore, it's a bunch of ultra right wing psychotic morons.

I try and refrain from attacking but you are an idiot for even thinking that. If you took 2 minutes to peel yourself away from the droning sound of MSNBC for 2 seconds you would realize that CPAC has received more support than ever before. They speak for liberty of the people and for smaller government! Two things that are quickly being taken away from us in this country. As for the NRA they are one of the greatest supporters of peoples rights in this country they have trained civilians, our police force and the military since the late 1800's in how to use and be safe with a firearm. They stood up for the people of New Orleans when their rights were being stripped from them after the Katrina disaster and stepped in with their own lawyers to make sure the gov't and local authorities were held accountable for their unconstitutional actions.

You sir are the asshat!

Originally posted by MrSpad
Irony, a group a people who claim to be awake being lead around by the nose of a company thats sole reason for existance is to get you to buy guns. Guns owners should have a legit representative not a corporate shill for the gun industry. The NRA is everything that is wrong with America, they buy off politicians, lie and sell fear all in the name of making money.

You couldn't be further from the truth. I am a life time member of the NRA as are many of my friends and family. Not once have they ever attempted to sell me a gun or prompt me to buy a gun. They stand up for the 2nd amendment rights of the people and put their money where their mouth is. Show me one example of them buying off politicians! What they do is make our voice heard, you know the ones you say aren't awake. Yeah them! I own firearms because I have hunted since I was 11 years old, I believe in them as a defensive tool, I enjoy the sport of shooting targets and clay pigeons, I enjoy the bonding I get to have with my father and brothers while out in the field. The NRA represents all that is good in this country! They represent the backbone of our constitution, because trust me if 100,000,000 Americans lose their rights to own firearms the rest of the constitution will go with them.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MrSpad

 

The NRA is made up of millions of members just like me. Average citizens. And their purpose for existence is to protect the 2nd Amendment.

The NRA's original goal (when it was first formed in 1871) was gun safety. Now, the goal is solely to make money, as a lobby group for the gun industry.

The NRA was founded in 1871 by two Yankee Civil War veterans, including an ex-New York Times reporter, who felt that war dragged on because more urban northerners could not shoot as well as rural southerners. It’s motto and focus until 1977 was not fighting for constitutional rights to own and use guns, but “Firearms Safety Education, Marksmanship Training, Shooting for Recreation,” which was displayed in its national headquarters.

www.salon.com...

The NRA has hundreds of thousands of firearm instructors all over this country teaching firearm safety. Your point is mute and you deserve no more time of mine.

Originally posted by CB328
I'd rather be an elitist than a lunatic asshat like Pierre and the reset of the NRA. The NRA are terrorists as far as I'm concerned.I can't believe anyone pays any attention to CPAC anymore, it's a bunch of ultra right wing psychotic morons.

that's protecting your right to free speech, now who's really the moron???

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by bl4ke360

 

www.youtube.com... .4474.7j14j4j2.27.0...0.0...1ac.1.lIBMmUvHI_c

And if that link gets broken, just YouTube "how to disarm a gunman".

How do you expect to disarm someone who is 20 feet away from you? It only takes a split second to pull a trigger, unless you have magical powers and can teleport 20 feet in a split second....your dead buddy.

If you haven't seen this speech YouTube it and like it please! Was a very good speech and I'm in no way pro NRA. Not against them either, but good speech overall. Look up Donald Trumps CPAC speech as well he did a very good job.

Why is no one talking about gun control for the military or police? Why is it always gun control for the citizens? The military kills with bombs, machine guns, chemicals, tanks. They kill women and children and call it collateral damage. They fire bomb villages, torture, and assassinate as needed.

Can you imagine if the citizens had as much power?

I just find it comical that I've not heard from one person for gun control ask for the same from the police and military.

Yet, the military kills so much more people with the same guns they want to outlaw!

It just seems so silly sometimes.

You guys are just a bunch of weak little girls!

You need a gun to protect yourself? HA! I laugh at all the women on this board who obviously have much smaller packages then myself! Cowards!
And to think you would even think about killing another human being JUST TO PROTECT YOURSELF? DESPICAPLE!! Everyone makes mistakes OK, just because they might be thinking about killing you at that moment doesn't mean they REALLY want to kill you! If you gave them a few minutes to think about what they are doing they would obviously realize they were just angry and confused, they would probably even apologize!
But none of you monsters would even give them that chance would you? You would just murder them right there without even a second thought.
Amazing. You rednecks really blow my mind sometimes. As smart and open minded as I am I thought I could understand pretty much anything...but here we are.

And before anyone starts talking about how its soooo impossible to defend yourself against another person with a gun, just watch this you weenies


See! No one died or anything!

I expect this thread to die now after the amazing logic pwnage I just laid upon it.

I'm right and I win. Your welcome

Originally posted by PlausibleDeniability
You guys are just a bunch of weak little girls!

You need a gun to protect yourself? HA! I laugh at all the women on this board who obviously have much smaller packages then myself! Cowards!
And to think you would even think about killing another human being JUST TO PROTECT YOURSELF? DESPICAPLE!! Everyone makes mistakes OK, just because they might be thinking about killing you at that moment doesn't mean they REALLY want to kill you! If you gave them a few minutes to think about what they are doing they would obviously realize they were just angry and confused, they would probably even apologize!
But none of you monsters would even give them that chance would you? You would just murder them right there without even a second thought.
Amazing. You rednecks really blow my mind sometimes. As smart and open minded as I am I thought I could understand pretty much anything...but here we are.

And before anyone starts talking about how its soooo impossible to defend yourself against another person with a gun, just watch this you weenies

See! No one died or anything!

I expect this thread to die now after the amazing logic pwnage I just laid upon it.

I'm right and I win. Your welcome

edit on 3/16/2013 by PlausibleDeniability because: (no reason given)

Please for the love of God, go to the streets of Chicago and test your technique against some of the gangbangers and demonstrate to us how effective your technique is for dealing with individuals that wish to do harm upon ones self. If money is an issue I'm sure we can start a fundraiser to help you lead your "Hug is stronger than Gun Crusade", gangbangers, drug dealers, career criminals really dont wanna hurt you all they want is a hug and free right of passage to loot whatever they can from you and your home, maybe they wanna have a crack at your old lady as well, why not let them because surely they are good people and a roll in the hay with your wife might actually make them feel better and help calm the situation, lets make the world more comfy for all Criminals because we don't want to offend them. People like you are what is wrong with this country millions of Brave Soldiers died defending your right to free speach, and you repay thier sacrifice with this type of mentality, you are a disgrace to all of those Soldiers and to your Country, might as well throw in Humanity in there as well.

Originally posted by PlausibleDeniability
You guys are just a bunch of weak little girls!

You need a gun to protect yourself? HA! I laugh at all the women on this board who obviously have much smaller packages then myself! Cowards!
And to think you would even think about killing another human being JUST TO PROTECT YOURSELF? DESPICAPLE!! Everyone makes mistakes OK, just because they might be thinking about killing you at that moment doesn't mean they REALLY want to kill you! If you gave them a few minutes to think about what they are doing they would obviously realize they were just angry and confused, they would probably even apologize!
But none of you monsters would even give them that chance would you? You would just murder them right there without even a second thought.
Amazing. You rednecks really blow my mind sometimes. As smart and open minded as I am I thought I could understand pretty much anything...but here we are.

And before anyone starts talking about how its soooo impossible to defend yourself against another person with a gun, just watch this you weenies

See! No one died or anything!

I expect this thread to die now after the amazing logic pwnage I just laid upon it.

I'm right and I win. Your welcome

edit on 3/16/2013 by PlausibleDeniability because: (no reason given)

Nope. What you did right here is prove just how naive you are...I really pray life doesn't knock you upside the head one day because, if you're lucky enough to wake up you're whole sense of being will be flipped. Your logic is failed, nobody wants to kill anyone. Guns save lives and prevent crimes from being committed w/o a trigger being pulled every day. Simply presenting the firearm in most cases of self defense will deter the attacker. In the case that they truly are crazy and care not of their life, or your own you have the ability to stop the inevitable from happening without being killed yourself. If you think you can stop bullets with the wave of your hand, go ahead and try I don't think you will be happy with the outcome. You are wrong! You lose!

Apparently I am a black belt master guru of sarcasm....

Or maybe sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet

Originally posted by PlausibleDeniability
Apparently I am a black belt master guru of sarcasm....

Or maybe sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet

I would say its the latter. I would have taken the video as sarcastic if you had not sounded exactly like the anti-gun crowd. Damn maybe you are a ninja...

i like the thoughts laid out by this Journalist...John Ransom

...There's a super storm raging over our economy that's been seeded and fueled by the federal government over a period of the past several decades. And it's literally costing the country trillions of dollars in GDP per year.

It’s not merely garden-variety government waste that's the problem either. It's monumental stupidity by the government, combined with venial cupidity by voters who think they can get others to pay for their free lunch....

...finance.townhall.com


CPAC is OK in its' own right...as a platform that has some sort of status...'


but they are not set apart as having keen, deep insights....
whereas Ransom cuts through all the political correctness & lays the carcass bare before the people