Lets say you zap a pair of goldfish into existence...

Lets say you zap a pair of goldfish into existence into an empty fish tank.

The pair, over time, multiply and increase in numbers. Then one day, for whatever reason, you choose one particular female goldfish and zap an egg into it... just because you had the power to do so....resulting in that chosen goldfish to have offspring, without any intervention from the male of its kind.

Keeping that in mind...
a) Would that mean you are now in a parental relationship with the goldfish that you chose?
b) Would the baby goldfish be your own "child" or would you rather see it as your creation?
c) Would you say that the baby goldfish is more special than the original pair that you zapped into being?
d) What would be your reaction if you learn that some of the other goldfish believe that the special baby goldfish is actually the creator of their ancestors (the original pair) who has come down to live with them in the form of a fish?

Thread participants, please answer these questions in that particular order.

My answers....
a) No. I would not be in a parental relationship with the goldfish that I chose. That would be absurd because I am the original creator of the fish in my tank. I could have just as well caused the female goldfish to meet a nice male specimen and make babies.

b) The baby goldfish would just be another creation of mine. Except I used one of my existing creations in the process.

c) I would say the original pair that I zapped into being out of nothing is, by far, more special than the baby goldfish.

d) I'd be annoyed.

Pretty unfair scenario where you just skew the scenario towards your desired answer. I can just as easily make a scenario where I zap my real son or my real son has his own power to transform himself into a goldfish and teleport into the belly of a virgin goldfish. Would you still be the parent? Yes.

reply to post by postmeme

Pretty unfair scenario where you just skew the scenario towards your desired answer. I can just as easily make a scenario where I zap my real son or my real son has his own power to transform himself into a goldfish and teleport into the belly of a virgin goldfish. Would you still be the parent? Yes.

I'm looking at the relationships between
a) the creator
b) the creations
c) the being that was created via an existing creation.

This is whats in the Bible as well, so I'm not skewing anything here.

When a man says he has a son, it automatically implies that he was/is in a relationship with the woman who played a role in bringing the child to this world. So what is the relationship between you and the goldfish you chose? Does the goldfish become your wife? Or does it remain another of your creations?

Some elements have child nodes, descendants and siblings.

but in the end, if the programmer has no care for the code he writes, it all gets stored on pastebin and forgotten.

such is the life of god. I don't think he'd care to be a father to some random scripts.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You are asking for HUMANS to project their HUMAN feelings into the Incarntion of Jesus situation and to put themselves into God's place.

Only God knows how He feels and only God knows why He had creation unfold as it has.

Only God knows why He chose to Incarnate as Jesus on Earth.

If you REALLY want to know why God did these things or how He felt, you have to as HIM.
... not a bunch of tiny humans who haven't got the entire picture, like He does.

Originally posted by postmeme
Pretty unfair scenario where you just skew the scenario towards your desired answer. I can just as easily make a scenario where I zap my real son or my real son has his own power to transform himself into a goldfish and teleport into the belly of a virgin goldfish. Would you still be the parent? Yes.

a real son that is with you from the time you exist and is as old as you? Or a son that you made before making any goldfish without a mother? How is that a son if he was also just zapped into being as the 1st creation?
He is called a son by goldfishes after born to a virgin. Was he a son before or just a creation? Gold fishes talk only what they can understand!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Keeping that in mind...

a) Would that mean you are now in a parental relationship with the goldfish that you chose?

It would mean that I have a relationship with all of them.

b) Would the baby goldfish be your own "child" or would you rather see it as your creation?

If I injected myself or a piece of myself into the baby goldfish, then yes, I would consider it my child.

c) Would you say that the baby goldfish is more special than the original pair that you zapped into being?

Yes, because it's the only one that has a part of myself (which is perfect) injected into it. Remember, the other two goldfish were only modeled after my image, but didn't contain a part of the original from which it was modeled.

d) What would be your reaction if you learn that some of the other goldfish believe that the special baby goldfish is actually the creator of their ancestors (the original pair) who has come down to live with them in the form of a fish?

My creations asked me to send them someone that could act on my behalf so they wouldn't die at the very sight or sound of me, so I sent them a piece of me so it wouldn't be so overwhelming. To get them to understand how this was a part of myself, I called him my Son. In reality, this same piece of myself created everything, so it would make sense that my creations understand that too.

Every goldfish ever born would be part of the creation. I would not look at individual fish but ask myself how the tank got so dirty to begin with...

Why don't you just ask us why we believe that Jesus was the only son of god when there are literally thousands of claims from that time that told of someone else being the only son of god, or even god himself in human form.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Lets say you zap a pair of goldfish into existence into an empty fish tank.

The pair, over time, multiply and increase in numbers. Then one day, for whatever reason, you choose one particular female goldfish and zap an egg into it... just because you had the power to do so....resulting in that chosen goldfish to have offspring, without any intervention from the male of its kind.

Keeping that in mind...
a) Would that mean you are now in a parental relationship with the goldfish that you chose?
b) Would the baby goldfish be your own "child" or would you rather see it as your creation?
c) Would you say that the baby goldfish is more special than the original pair that you zapped into being?
d) What would be your reaction if you learn that some of the other goldfish believe that the special baby goldfish is actually the creator of their ancestors (the original pair) who has come down to live with them in the form of a fish?

a) Nope, it doesn't mean I'm the parent, I wasn't a part of the reproduction cycle.

b) Nope, it would be a creation just like I popped all the other fish into existence.

c) Well, the baby goldfish would be special in the sense of not having a biological father - that is all.

d) I wouldn't care. They are free to believe whatever they wish. I am not a slave-master trying to control their thoughts and opinions.

By "parent" Jesus was referring to God as creator and first/last cause, and spirit of the universe with which he had an intimate relationship ie: as close as his own self. As to the identity of his earthly father that's another matter altogether and surely a prominent factor in his spiritual quest and desire for reconciliation and atonement and to resolve the problem of human sin and evil once and for all time. Talk about courage, and sorrow.